Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#166189 May 28, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again you're too stupid to understand the context. Too bad you can't twist Einstein's thoughts. We do understand your religion has taught you to lie.
The inspiration of the bible depends on the ignorance of the person who reads it.
We should be agnostic about those things for which there is no evidence. We should not hold beliefs merely because they gratify our desires for afterlife or immortality.
If you really believe that death leads to eternal bliss then why are you wearing a seat belt?
You belong to the church - stay there
again that was to someone else, but maybe you and I have similar views, and if you wish to take the time to look at some of my comments above and reply to anything there.
I sort of object to saying that believers lie - when I define a lie as a knowing telling of an untruth. I think many believers to not knowingly do so. I think even when they warp things, it is because their thinking processes are warped, and/or minimal, rather than because they know and lie. I think many big bankers lie on purpose, and know better but want to fool folks for their own profit, for example. I think that is the correct use of the accusation of liar.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#166190 May 28, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>He certainly was right about religion poisoning EVERYTHING!!!!
Glad we have other brilliant people to demonstrate the metal illness that accompanies religion, like Sam Harris.
I am not a huge Harris fan, personally, I think he's a bit too fanatical at times. Hitchens thought out what he would say, and often stuck to the facts, while Harris seems more emotionally attached to his assertions. But, we all have our own preferences.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#166191 May 28, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text>That is true, but to get folks who say they believe in religion to reach common beliefs is also impossible on many matters. People have different opinions, and it is a very good thing that they do.
On many things. Maybe we should all want our planet to survive as a habitable place for humans and the plants and animals and ecosystems we value.
Agreed.

But when 80% of the population thinks there's some magical civil engineer coming back to fix everything for us, it's difficult to get 100% motivated.
Imhotep

Charlotte, NC

#166192 May 28, 2013
Snevaeh legna wrote:
Hi Imhotep, Als die link niet word probeer deze eens ... lol Interessante kleuren!
http://www.brobible.com/life/slideshow/the-co... .
Waarom vraag je me plagen?
Je weet dat ik hou van marihuana elke kleur!
Imhotep

Charlotte, NC

#166193 May 28, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> again that was to someone else, but maybe you and I have similar views, and if you wish to take the time to look at some of my comments above and reply to anything there.
I sort of object to saying that believers lie - when I define a lie as a knowing telling of an untruth. I think many believers to not knowingly do so. I think even when they warp things, it is because their thinking processes are warped, and/or minimal, rather than because they know and lie. I think many big bankers lie on purpose, and know better but want to fool folks for their own profit, for example. I think that is the correct use of the accusation of liar.
Indeed we do share many views it appears.
That post you responded to was directed specifically at one person who lies constantly.

For one thing I'm not religious I'm a secular humanist.
I was not raised in to any religion.
Actually, until 911 happened, I paid scamt attention to it.

Since: May 13

Hightstown, NJ

#166194 May 28, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> First of all, I wish to assert the right of a commenter to agree with one part of someone's comment, and to disagree with another part. I will do that first with you and then with the person you are in an argument with.
I agree that facts are not clear cut, in many cases. In many cases they are not known at all.
I do not think that absence of evidence is evidence of absence, on the God issue or many other things. But it is not an excuse for weak assertions to be claimed as "evidence", for either side.
The notion that something is true or not, may be correct by definition, but it sure does not imply that we know or can know what is true about everything that interests us.
You may have your opinion, but I do not see your alleged evidence as being real evidence. I also do not think that the atheists who claim to "know" there is no God have evidence that there is none, or that they know it. There are two issues involved, one is whether there is or is not something that can reasonably be called a God (and the definition is not clear or universally accepted), and the second issue is about the nature and extent of human knowledge.
I am an agnostic (not making a knowledge claim), and also an atheist (not a believer in a God). I doubt whether anyone knows or can know whether something that can reasonably be called a god exists. I depends on the definition, and on what thinks is a reasonable definition.
I personally feel strongly that an allgoodallpowerful God does not and could not exist, given the world we observe and feel, with pain in it.
I also think that there is a reasonable definition of a God that exists - which is that God is a name for everything that exists.
But I certainly do not think that the Christian God as described is allgood and allpowerful, nor do I think it is everything that exists. I do not believe in it because I think that the Biblical God is not a nice guy, and unworthy of worship, even more than I consider it to be unlikely to exist, as a matter of reason.
you know, i agree with you on many points. you are right, christians have no excuse for some of the arguments they give. i often find my hand firmly pressed to my face in frustration towhat i read some christians post at times. i think its something that christians have to understand. you cant argue the bible from the inside to someone on the outside of that world view, or itll just be like you saying im right ur wrong with no argument for the truth of it..

on another point i agree with, i do agree that the pain we feel is a strong reason for doubting the existance of God. and it doesnt help that often times we cant see the answers to why the pain we see and feel happen. we want the world to be right, and we think that if God exists, he should stop or fix the pain. but ive sat down and thought very hard on many things in this area, and ive seen that very often its where the greatest pain exists that belief in God flurishes. and its not because they are weak by any means. i doubt anyone could look at those who suffer anywhere in the world and say they are weak for believing in God with the kind of strength that ive seen personally. when we look at the things that happen, we see pain, but we also see healing after the storm so to speak. and i think those that suffer and believe in God also have doubts, just as i have had, but many have also described their lives as being stronger with God. i could not see this as merely a function of weakness or crutch bearing. sometimes pain is just the thing people need to step back and ask where God is. many find him, and some dont.
Bongo

Bayport, NY

#166195 May 28, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey. You stole my laugh, you big yankee.
Might have to drive north and line you up.
Is that better than squarin off? Make sure you bring some jello with banana slices
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#166196 May 28, 2013
Ray puelerico wrote:
<quoted text>
you know, i agree with you on many points. you are right, christians have no excuse for some of the arguments they give. i often find my hand firmly pressed to my face in frustration towhat i read some christians post at times. i think its something that christians have to understand. you cant argue the bible from the inside to someone on the outside of that world view, or itll just be like you saying im right ur wrong with no argument for the truth of it..
on another point i agree with, i do agree that the pain we feel is a strong reason for doubting the existance of God. and it doesnt help that often times we cant see the answers to why the pain we see and feel happen. we want the world to be right, and we think that if God exists, he should stop or fix the pain. but ive sat down and thought very hard on many things in this area, and ive seen that very often its where the greatest pain exists that belief in God flurishes. and its not because they are weak by any means. i doubt anyone could look at those who suffer anywhere in the world and say they are weak for believing in God with the kind of strength that ive seen personally. when we look at the things that happen, we see pain, but we also see healing after the storm so to speak. and i think those that suffer and believe in God also have doubts, just as i have had, but many have also described their lives as being stronger with God. i could not see this as merely a function of weakness or crutch bearing. sometimes pain is just the thing people need to step back and ask where God is. many find him, and some dont.
thank you for the interesting reply. I think that many people who suffer have more reason to believe in God because they believe in an afterlife where everything will be made right and for a much longer time. They also need to think that everything that happens in this life is for a reason, and a part of a good plan of a good God, which is one that will save them in an afterlife (and often they like to think that people who disagree with them on religion, but are not suffering now, will go to hell later and suffer more). Many of them rush to churches after disasters, and listen to sermons who preach that message. And many in Oklahoma probably have voted for Senator Inhofe, who has done more to oppose restrictions on carbon pollution than anyone else in politics. If this world turns into a hot "hell" for their living grandchildren, never mind, God will fix it somehow, or get them all into heaven. Meanwhile the rest of life on earth will live horrid lives with disasters. These wild religious types will think that is God's punishment for legalization of gay marriage or something, and OK.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#166197 May 28, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Okay.
Is striking a six-momth-old okay, or not?
if you ask a question like that! you would understand the answer..

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#166198 May 28, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Hitchens was a great speaker and a great man, he is missed. Like Plato he will be remembered for as long as humans continue to exist.
so will Jesus Christ

Since: May 13

Hightstown, NJ

#166199 May 28, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> thank you for the interesting reply. I think that many people who suffer have more reason to believe in God because they believe in an afterlife where everything will be made right and for a much longer time. They also need to think that everything that happens in this life is for a reason, and a part of a good plan of a good God, which is one that will save them in an afterlife (and often they like to think that people who disagree with them on religion, but are not suffering now, will go to hell later and suffer more). Many of them rush to churches after disasters, and listen to sermons who preach that message. And many in Oklahoma probably have voted for Senator Inhofe, who has done more to oppose restrictions on carbon pollution than anyone else in politics. If this world turns into a hot "hell" for their living grandchildren, never mind, God will fix it somehow, or get them all into heaven. Meanwhile the rest of life on earth will live horrid lives with disasters. These wild religious types will think that is God's punishment for legalization of gay marriage or something, and OK.
again, i find myself agreeing with you on pretty much everythingyousaid. many people do go to church for comfort, and a number of people try to view bad things that happen as Gods punishment for things. personally, even though i do have the belief that God judges sin, i think its stupid and hateful to just up and blame gays for hurricanes or abortions for earthquakes or whatever stupid things some christians say. one of my best friends is gay, and even though i want him healthy and care for his wellbeing, i would never in a trillion years blame him for a single incident of global harm. plus, i think that its foolish to believe that God will fix EVERYTHING that we humans mess up. we have to take responsability for our actions and do our part. now, i think the reasons people believe vary, and oi respect most of the reasons, although some resons are more valid than others. i think that discussions on God and faith are important, and are a big part of peoples everyday lives and life long world views. thats why im here. i like talking about these things and getting a feel for the world as we view it

Since: May 13

Hightstown, NJ

#166200 May 28, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> thank you for the interesting reply. I think that many people who suffer have more reason to believe in God because they believe in an afterlife where everything will be made right and for a much longer time. They also need to think that everything that happens in this life is for a reason, and a part of a good plan of a good God, which is one that will save them in an afterlife (and often they like to think that people who disagree with them on religion, but are not suffering now, will go to hell later and suffer more). Many of them rush to churches after disasters, and listen to sermons who preach that message. And many in Oklahoma probably have voted for Senator Inhofe, who has done more to oppose restrictions on carbon pollution than anyone else in politics. If this world turns into a hot "hell" for their living grandchildren, never mind, God will fix it somehow, or get them all into heaven. Meanwhile the rest of life on earth will live horrid lives with disasters. These wild religious types will think that is God's punishment for legalization of gay marriage or something, and OK.
you have a way of thining that i can appreciate. these are the kind of discussions i like. they brighten my day. thanks for that.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#166201 May 28, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>He certainly was right about religion poisoning EVERYTHING!!!!
Glad we have other brilliant people to demonstrate the metal illness that accompanies religion, like Sam Harris.
I see you are still a Jesus Christ! christian hater...

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#166202 May 28, 2013
Believe and recieve!!! doubt and do without!!
Imhotep

Charlotte, NC

#166203 May 28, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Hitchens was a great speaker and a great man, he is missed. Like Plato he will be remembered for as long as humans continue to exist.
Take a gander at this site.
Robert Green Ingersoll was a fantastic orator.
He was called the great agnostic

http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/ro...

Excerpt

For many years I have regarded the Pentateuch simply as a
record of a barbarous people, in which are found a great number of
the ceremonies of savagery, many absurd and unjust laws, and
thousands of ideas inconsistent with known and demonstrated facts.
To me it seemed almost a crime to teach that this record was
written by inspired men; that slavery, polygamy, wars of conquest
and extermination were right, and that there was a time when men
could win the approbation of infinite Intelligence, Justice, and
Mercy, by violating maidens and by butchering babes. To me it
seemed more reasonable that savage men had made these laws; and I
endeavored in a lecture, entitled "Some Mistakes of Moses," to
point out some of the errors, contradictions, and impossibilities
contained in the Pentateuch. The lecture was never written and
consequently never delivered twice the same. On several occasions
it was reported and published without consent, and without
revision. All these publications were grossly and glaringly
incorrect. As published, they have been answered several hundred
times, and many of the clergy are still engaged in the great work.
To keep these reverend gentlemen from wasting their talents on the
mistakes of reporters and printers, I concluded to publish the
principal points in all my lectures on this subject. And here, it
may be proper for one to say, that arguments cannot be answered by
personal abuse; that there is no logic in slander, and that
falsehood, in the long run, defeats itself, People who love their
enemies should, at least, tell the truth about their friends.
Should it turn out that I am the worst man in the whole world, the
story of the flood will remain just as improbable as before, and
the contradictions of the Pentateuch will still demand an
explanation.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#166204 May 28, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>so will Jesus Christ
So will Gandalf and Zeus.

Lots of fictional characters are remembered throughout time.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#166205 May 28, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Hitchens was a great speaker and a great man, he is missed. Like Plato he will be remembered for as long as humans continue to exist.
Who is Hitchens ? Is he a mythic figure known only from literature like Plato and Jesus ?

<smile>

"I am an unbiased thorn."

“ IT'S A CHOICE !!!”

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#166206 May 28, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Waarom vraag je me plagen?
Je weet dat ik hou van marihuana elke kleur!
IK wist dat hij kwam in 'Goud,' IK wist niet dat dat kwam zo veel mooie kleuren ... Het lijkt bijna gespoten! Lol Heb je een leuk weekend?

:)

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#166207 May 28, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>so will Jesus Christ
We have evidence that Hitchens existed though, the two are not comparable.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#166208 May 28, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>if you ask a question like that! you would understand the answer..
Code for "I don't have an answer. That I'm prepared to give, anyway."

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