Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Read more
Thinking

Sturminster Newton, UK

#166230 May 28, 2013
You're a Poe or a retard or both.

The bible says jesus killed a fig tree because it didn't produce figs out of season.
JesusMyLord wrote:
<quoted text>Because your gay sex is not part of his design. If your car did not run, would you let it sit there or take it to the shop to be fixed so it could run like it was designed to run.
Jesus made it clear and it was a powerful message. When the fig tree failed to produce and function as it was designed to, Jesus cursed it. When Noah built the Ark, who brought in two of a kind, male and female, because that is proper functionality.
Thinking

Sturminster Newton, UK

#166231 May 28, 2013
Why?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
God is concerned about gay sex??
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

#166232 May 28, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>I see you are still a Jesus Christ! christian hater...
I can't hate that which does not exist, how foolish!!!!
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

#166233 May 28, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>I tell you when it will be scary! being on your death bed crying Jesus, I didn't mean it I-I-I was just doing what that ol devil told me to do... Im so sorry... I-I-I want to be on your side Jesus not that mean ol devil... I love you
Boy are you projecting....your so petrified of death, why does it scare you so? Death is part of life, we all have our turn and then make way for those that follow. Why are you so frighted of something so natural and inevitable? Of course no one wants to give up his turn, to die, but creating imaginary beings and magical places to comfort you is childish. Man up, face death like a man when your turn is up.

“Move into the light.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#166234 May 28, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>So if I really go at it and sin a whole lot, does that mean more holes in Jesus? If so, I'm on my way to sinning none stop!!! I really love sinning, so much fun!!!

Since: May 13

Hightstown, NJ

#166235 May 28, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>All of those various arguments involving the existence of God, are arguments without facts, so become totally worthless. The LACK of facts concerning the existence of God is very clear cut, there are none.
Of course it depends on what kind of personal experience a person has. if someone told me they were at the beach and saw a whale breaching off shore i would lean toward believing them as this is something that has certainly happened in the past on a number of occasions, and all of the elements of the story grounded in reality. Now if you told me God came down last night and spoke to you and then physically touched you on the head, I would be compelled to not believe you as none of the elements are grounded in reality. I would simply chalk it up to you having a serious delusion. The mental institutions are full of people who will swear that there are demons around every corner, would you accept these personal experiences as factual?
my answers will be kinda breif, im exausted from the gym, so i apologize. well, i wont go into the philosophy of what constitutes a fact, but i will say that there are evidences that require serious thought and not quick dismissal. you havent stated what exactly would constitute a fact, given the thoughts youve presented. for example, you stated that a fact is something that is indisputably the case, and it is also a definition ive found in my websters. so when we analyse the statements youre making, you assume that when something isnt sufficiently established, then the opposite is fact. but what you are forgeting is that it is nigh impossible to establish a universal negative, especially with the method youre using. instead of using the word fact, i think that maybe you should switch more towards evidence, as i think this will be more fruitful to the discussion. further, i look at the statement you made and i see it as flawed because we are speaking in terms of factual things. so when i present to you any evidence, the evidence has a grounds in reality, by using all kinds of facts. like morals. it is a fact that such a thing as morals exist. its not that there arent facts in my arguments, its that you dont agree with the point im making by using certain facts, or dont hold some ideas to be factual. we should not cut off our own arguments roots in presenting our arguments, its not fruitful.

now, personal experience is usually taken into consideration given the background information. so you are right in your analagy. i have no problem in saying that believing someones personal experience may be difficult given certain ideas and personal views. for example, if i went to the beach and saw a shark stuck in a small cove with no visable way for it to get in or out, it is highly unlikely that people will believe me. but take the idea that theres a shark there and multiply it by 5 people, and the idea becomes more plausible. now thats how you would handle a material personal experience. now an immaterial personal experience that has to do with a mental experience or a feeling, thats something that also has to be taken into consideration given the background info plus the likelihood of that event, minus your own personal presuppositions. now, as for your example of those who see demons around every corner, again, we have defeaters of those experiences, combined with an objective standard for judging these things. thats why the average person of faith may have "religious experiences" while another person may experience a horrible mental delusion. we have a standard for judging that.

Since: May 13

Hightstown, NJ

#166236 May 28, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Mankind has been on the planet for approximately 200,000 give or take. Jesus carrying the word of God appeared a mere 2,000 years ago. Where did mankind draw his morals for some 198,000 years? Cannibalism is view by our present society as highly immoral, but not that long ago in New Guinea, it was considered appropriate and a means of drawing strength from your enemies. There are very few moral absolutes.
If one were to combine the idea that morals are an indicator for the existence of God and the writings found in the bible which are said to be the word of God, then contradictions emerge. Without going into all of the immorality found in the bible, we only have to look at the FACT that God condones slavery. Most would agree that regardless of the society, one person owning another and imposing their will on them is immoral.
ok, in this one youve raised 3 seperate issues. so ill adress them by point.

1:where did we draw our morals from before christ?

the biblical worldview states that the morals God set in place are "written on the hearts of man". youll never hear me say that one must know God to be moral, because not even the bible says that.

2. moral ideas differ around the world in various times and places.

well, lets look at your statement as a whole for a moment. if there is no objective standard holding all men accountable, then is cannibalism wrong? we say that our society doesnt accept that behavior, but then how do you tell these people that its wrong? on an evolutionary world view, were just animals, and sharks eat other sharks, snakes eat other snakes, chimps eat other monkeys, so why not have humans eat other humans? we can say that we dont like it, but we really cant say that its wrong. so who are we to impose our cultural moral standards on others? all they have to say is "says who?", and now we are left with a might makes right delema. the only way you can have something really be wrong is to have an authority greater than your own. an analagy would be if you have a sibling. if you tell that sibling to do something, they arent really obligated to do it. but if your parent tells you to do something, then you goshdarn better do it lol. the difference is about authority. so when we have morals, by whos authority are we claiming that anyone else is wrong?

3. the bible condones slavery, therefor god isnt the source of moral standards.

now here we are with the delema i presented. now, im not going to go into the hebrew lanuage or the cultural ideas that make the idea that the bible condones slavery wrong. ill get to that soon enough. but you state that slavery is w no matter what culture. so you agree that there are some objective moral values. and if there is so much as one objective moral value, then there has to be a grounds above humanity to ground that belief in. so what is there above humanity? well, the only one above man is God. i would go on further or in more detail, but im exausted lol. i think ive said enough for now. lol forgive me if i dont get back to u soon, i need a nap.

Since: May 13

Hightstown, NJ

#166237 May 28, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>I'm always intrigued by the question....What is there to be gained by a belief in God? What REAL advantage is there in believing in God? If we reject the argument that we derive our morals from a belief in God, the what advantage is left?
im not sure if i follow you. if i understand, youre asking what do we get out of believing in God. well thats like asking what benefit do i derive from having you as a friend or having a relationship with my girlfriend. its not just about the belief. its about a relationship. yes relationships confer benefits, but the point of a relationship isnt to recieve those benefits, or else the motivation in having it is wrong. did i understand you right?
Joe dugooder

Spencer, MA

#166238 May 28, 2013
If there's no god, then where did the bible come from, an explosion in the ink factory.

Www.newdrivewaypaving.com

“Move into the light.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#166239 May 28, 2013
Joe dugooder wrote:
If there's no god, then where did the bible come from, an explosion in the ink factory.
Www.newdrivewaypaving.com

A ancient think tank of men who wanted to steal your mind.
It worked BIG on the gullible then. It works BIG on the gullible now.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#166240 May 28, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>I can't hate that which does not exist, how foolish!!!!
1 Corinthians 2:14

New International Version (NIV)


14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

The word of GOD has you down...

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#166241 May 28, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Boy are you projecting....your so petrified of death, why does it scare you so? Death is part of life, we all have our turn and then make way for those that follow. Why are you so frighted of something so natural and inevitable? Of course no one wants to give up his turn, to die, but creating imaginary beings and magical places to comfort you is childish. Man up, face death like a man when your turn is up.
Boy are you lying! you're afraid to die

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#166242 May 28, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>So if I really go at it and sin a whole lot, does that mean more holes in Jesus? If so, I'm on my way to sinning none stop!!! I really love sinning, so much fun!!!
Yes, Bro. Clownie (Your Guiding Light) is more than happy to be on Topix to show you lying heathens the bright light of honor, integrity, justice, truth, and the American way. Now, Bro. Clownie looking out for your best interests, doesn't want you to over extend your weak minded self, BigDummy... uh, blacklagoon. You should limit your weak minded self to just a couple of the tasks you are extremely good at...
(1) Making yourself look as stupid as possible on Topix
(2) Booing christians
(3) Hating Jesus Christ who you say don't exist.. LOL
(4) Scaring little girls at the park..
(5) Scaring yourself every time you look in the mirror
... Now, be a good little atheist/whiner and pick your two favorites from the list above to do. Bro. Clownie doesn't think two of those categories should over-tax your weak minded pea brain. Now, have a nice day in front of the mirror, and, at the park ... ya hear!?

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#166245 May 28, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
So then where is this evidence?
You're blind as a bat KK... We have the bible! Jesus Christ! billions of christians! creation!

LAST BUT NOT LEAST !!!!!!!!

Bro. Clownie
TRUST ME
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

#166246 May 28, 2013
Ray puelerico wrote:
<quoted text>
my answers will be kinda breif, im exausted from the gym, so i apologize. well, i wont go into the philosophy of what constitutes a fact, but i will say that there are evidences that require serious thought and not quick dismissal. you havent stated what exactly would constitute a fact, given the thoughts youve presented. for example, you stated that a fact is something that is indisputably the case, and it is also a definition ive found in my websters. so when we analyse the statements youre making, you assume that when something isnt sufficiently established, then the opposite is fact. but what you are forgeting is that it is nigh impossible to establish a universal negative, especially with the method youre using. instead of using the word fact, i think that maybe you should switch more towards evidence, as i think this will be more fruitful to the discussion. further, i look at the statement you made and i see it as flawed because we are speaking in terms of factual things. so when i present to you any evidence, the evidence has a grounds in reality, by using all kinds of facts. like morals. it is a fact that such a thing as morals exist. its not that there arent facts in my arguments, its that you dont agree with the point im making by using certain facts, or dont hold some ideas to be factual. we should not cut off our own arguments roots in presenting our arguments, its not fruitful.
now, personal experience is usually taken into consideration given the background information. so you are right in your analagy. i have no problem in saying that believing someones personal experience may be difficult given certain ideas and personal views. for example, if i went to the beach and saw a shark stuck in a small cove with no visable way for it to get in or out, it is highly unlikely that people will believe me. but take the idea that theres a shark there and multiply it by 5 people, and the idea becomes more plausible. now thats how you would handle a material personal experience. now an immaterial personal experience that has to do with a mental experience or a feeling, thats something that also has to be taken into consideration given the background info plus the likelihood of that event, minus your own personal presuppositions. now, as for your example of those who see demons around every corner, again, we have defeaters of those experiences, combined with an objective standard for judging these things. thats why the average person of faith may have "religious experiences" while another person may experience a horrible mental delusion. we have a standard for judging that.
Enjoy the dialog. Will be gone till next week,but look forward to continuing our discussion.

Since: May 13

Hightstown, NJ

#166247 May 28, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Enjoy the dialog. Will be gone till next week,but look forward to continuing our discussion.
sounds good my friend. take it easy, enjoy your week.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#166248 May 29, 2013
Ray puelerico wrote:
<quoted text>
my answers will be kinda breif, im exausted from the gym, so i apologize. well, i wont go into the philosophy of what constitutes a fact, but i will say that there are evidences that require serious thought and not quick dismissal. you havent stated what exactly would constitute a fact, given the thoughts youve presented. for example, you stated that a fact is something that is indisputably the case, and it is also a definition ive found in my websters. so when we analyse the statements youre making, you assume that when something isnt sufficiently established, then the opposite is fact. but what you are forgeting is that it is nigh impossible to establish a universal negative, especially with the method youre using. instead of using the word fact, i think that maybe you should switch more towards evidence, as i think this will be more fruitful to the discussion. further, i look at the statement you made and i see it as flawed because we are speaking in terms of factual things. so when i present to you any evidence, the evidence has a grounds in reality, by using all kinds of facts. like morals. it is a fact that such a thing as morals exist. its not that there arent facts in my arguments, its that you dont agree with the point im making by using certain facts, or dont hold some ideas to be factual. we should not cut off our own arguments roots in presenting our arguments, its not fruitful.
now, personal experience is usually taken into consideration given the background information. so you are right in your analagy. i have no problem in saying that believing someones personal experience may be difficult given certain ideas and personal views. for example, if i went to the beach and saw a shark stuck in a small cove with no visable way for it to get in or out, it is highly unlikely that people will believe me. but take the idea that theres a shark there and multiply it by 5 people, and the idea becomes more plausible. now thats how you would handle a material personal experience. now an immaterial personal experience that has to do with a mental experience or a feeling, thats something that also has to be taken into consideration given the background info plus the likelihood of that event, minus your own personal presuppositions. now, as for your example of those who see demons around every corner, again, we have defeaters of those experiences, combined with an objective standard for judging these things. thats why the average person of faith may have "religious experiences" while another person may experience a horrible mental delusion. we have a standard for judging that.
There's a no such thing as god. If you think "god is possible" you need to prove it.

Its that simple. When theists stop projecting their hallucinations upon atheists, we will finally live in peace.

Since: Mar 11

Pascoe Vale, Australia

#166249 May 29, 2013
JesusMyLord wrote:
<quoted text>Because your gay sex is not part of his design. If your car did not run, would you let it sit there or take it to the shop to be fixed so it could run like it was designed to run.
Jesus made it clear and it was a powerful message. When the fig tree failed to produce and function as it was designed to, Jesus cursed it. When Noah built the Ark, who brought in two of a kind, male and female, because that is proper functionality.
So why did God make Asexual's? Stuffed up did he?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#166250 May 29, 2013
People in non Christian counties were miles away more moral than Christians at the time. Secular morality is always superior to a religious one. Yes your bible approves of slavery and your answer did not refute that. Even Paul demanded a slave to return to his Christian master. Yes early Christians for centuries owned slaves.
Ray puelerico wrote:
ok, in this one youve raised 3 seperate issues. so ill adress them by point.

1:where did we draw our morals from before christ?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#166251 May 29, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>You're blind as a bat KK... We have the bible! Jesus Christ! billions of christians! creation!
LAST BUT NOT LEAST !!!!!!!!
Bro. Clownie
TRUST ME
If you weren't so funny, I'd never read your posts.

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