Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#162664
Mar 27, 2013
 
socci wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus is a recorded historic fact. The tooth fairy is not. The Bible says Jesus is God & Creator. Your relationship with him is just one of rejection, and ignorance.
In the end this will be of no excuse.
Problematic is this claim.....

The Bible says.

It is not an authority in the real world of explaining exactly how this is, or came to be this way.
Only popular to those of very little understanding of these things.

“Dont kill innocent people just”

Since: Jul 12

"because they're inconvenient"

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#162665
Mar 27, 2013
 
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
And you know this how, exactly?
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You had formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God." (Psalm 90:1)

“Think&Care”

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#162666
Mar 27, 2013
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
God can't be scientifically scrutinized. Not by me, not by you, not by anyone.
Which is exactly why I consider the existence to be meaningless.
You find God within your soul, not without it.
It is your choice to believe, no one can force it on you.
Belief comes after evidence that convinces. It is not a choice. Either the evidence is there and convinces you or it isn't or doesn't. The choice comes in *saying* you believe or disbelieve and whether you attempt to delude yourself by not thinking about the subject.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#162667
Mar 27, 2013
 
socci wrote:
<quoted text>
Your denial will not change anything. The historians who record Jesus, Pilate, the crucifixion and Christians, have the final word on the matter. You only lie to yourself.
Here is a quote from the Encyclopedia Britannica concerning the testimony of the many independent secular accounts of Jesus of Nazareth: "These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadequate grounds by several authors at the end of the 18th, during the 19th, and at the beginning of the 20th centuries."
www.thedevineevidence.com/jesus_history.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_J...
The Evidence for the Existence of Jesus
http://youtu.be/cDoMerykoCY
Just shows your ignorance has no credibility.
We do see your will to believe, but your belief is well..... Belief.

You should look into belief and exactly what belief is.

Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.

Belief does not make it true.

“Dont kill innocent people just”

Since: Jul 12

"because they're inconvenient"

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#162668
Mar 27, 2013
 

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polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes,that is the myth. Whether or not that myth has anything to do with reality is the question.
Have you any answers?

How are you defining myth?

“Dont kill innocent people just”

Since: Jul 12

"because they're inconvenient"

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#162669
Mar 27, 2013
 

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polymath257 wrote:
Which is exactly why I consider the existence to be meaningless.
Oh no, not another one....

"If science can't detect it, it doesn't exist."

Blah
Belief comes after evidence that convinces. It is not a choice. Either the evidence is there and convinces you or it isn't or doesn't. The choice comes in *saying* you believe or disbelieve and whether you attempt to delude yourself by not thinking about the subject.
Very good and very true.

I almost lost my faith when I was young. It wasn't until God touched me & spoke to me did I change my thinking on it.

It's an amazing feeling when you feel God's presence, it really is.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#162670
Mar 27, 2013
 
No it isn't. Atheism is not believing in god which many get there by seeing no knowledge or proof of god. This really should not have to be explained to you again and again and again.

The two terms are not mutually exclusive just as one can be a male baseball player. But baseball player and make are not exclusive terms.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>Agnostic atheist is an oxymoron.

A true atheist does not believe in the existence of deities. They just don't.

So how could someone that doesn't believe in the existence of deities also not "know for sure" if deities exist?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#162671
Mar 27, 2013
 
How can it be between me and this god concept that you cannot even make a case for? Not only can you not show proof you are unable to even articulate a basic argument for your assertion!

All you can do is burp you believe god exists? Seriously? Completely unable to even craft a semi logical case to back up your assertion? Nothing? You got nothing?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>I cannot prove to you that God exists. That's between you & God.

However, you asked me to "Present my case that god exists", not prove it.

I believe that God exists because He has answered my prayers, I have heard His voice and I have felt His hand.

Case presented.

Now, biblically contradict Genesis 1:1....

“Think&Care”

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#162672
Mar 27, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol
http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jesus_histor...
"Christus, the founder of the [Christian] name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius. But the
pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, by through the city of
Rome also." Annals XV, 44
-Cornelius Tacitus, a 1st and 2nd century Roman historian.
Considered one of the greatest historians of ancient Rome, Tacitus verifies the Biblical account of Jesus' execution at the hands of Pontius Pilate who governed Judea from 26-36 A.D. during the reign of Tiberius.
Yes, Tacitus relates the existence of Christians. That is interesting information. He also relates that those Christians believe their founder was executed by the procurator Pilate. However, and unlike historians today, Tacitus would not have looked at original records from Judea about such records, but simply related what the Christians were believed by Romans to believe. The Romans also believed the Christians engaged in cannibalism.

What Tacitus definitely does NOT do is verify anything god-like about Christus or say that his name was actually Jesus. So what we have is that some people in the early second century believed their founder, named Christus, was executed. Given that many different Christ legends existed at the time (Gnostic, for example, but Essene also), why does this support the Christian belief of a human God? Especially since Tacitus would have been quite happy to relate any aspects that were associated with Gods (and did so on many other occasions).

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#162673
Mar 27, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh no, not another one....
"If science can't detect it, it doesn't exist."
Blah
If there is no way, even theoretically, for detection (which means via science) to happen, then the existence is meaningless.
Very good and very true.
I almost lost my faith when I was young. It wasn't until God touched me & spoke to me did I change my thinking on it.
It's an amazing feeling when you feel God's presence, it really is.
Similar, from what I have heard to what people experience on psychedelics. That doesn't make the experience true or correctly interpreted.

“Think&Care”

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#162674
Mar 27, 2013
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you any answers?
How are you defining myth?
A myth is a system of beliefs that is held by a group of people, often of concerning a supernatural, with no evidence to establish its veracity. Myths tend to be good fiction, but short on facts.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#162675
Mar 27, 2013
 
How do you know god can't be scientifically tested by anyone? You are privy to the knowledge and abilities of every person that ever has and ever will exist?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>God can't be scientifically scrutinized. Not by me, not by you, not by anyone.

You find God within your soul, not without it.

It is your choice to believe, no one can force it on you.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#162676
Mar 27, 2013
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, Tacitus relates the existence of Christians. That is interesting information. He also relates that those Christians believe their founder was executed by the procurator Pilate. However, and unlike historians today, Tacitus would not have looked at original records from Judea about such records, but simply related what the Christians were believed by Romans to believe. The Romans also believed the Christians engaged in cannibalism.
What Tacitus definitely does NOT do is verify anything god-like about Christus or say that his name was actually Jesus. So what we have is that some people in the early second century believed their founder, named Christus, was executed. Given that many different Christ legends existed at the time (Gnostic, for example, but Essene also), why does this support the Christian belief of a human God? Especially since Tacitus would have been quite happy to relate any aspects that were associated with Gods (and did so on many other occasions).
That is giving that the line was not an insertion, and there are plenty of seasoned historians who think it was. But even if we accept it as genuine, it is far less than revealing as a believer would hope.
It is a highly generic statement, that could in fact be in reference to about any christian who led the order.
I see it as a confirmation of rebellion existed to rule of thumb. so it is merely confirmation that elements contrary to absolute authority existed, and that some payed dearly for not fitting in like flynn.

Since: Mar 11

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#162677
Mar 27, 2013
 
Are you really humiliating yourself with the Christian forged Tacitus passage that was inserted in the year 1600?

You honestly believe a roman imperial would call a random Jewish guy Christ or messiah? Well he would if he wanted to lose his livelihood, get dragged into the streets, flogged and executed. Roman imperials didn't take kindly to such statements and Tacitus would know it would be suicidal.

But let's forget the passage was forged by Christians in the year 1600, let's forget a roman imperial would never call a Jewish man the messiah by threat of torture and death. Let's just blindly accept the passage. Even then Tacitus is merely documenting what Christians decades later said about Jesus.

Nothing more.

It equals zero proof and you know it.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>Lol

http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jesus_histor...

"Christus, the founder of the [Christian] name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius. But the
pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, by through the city of
Rome also." Annals XV, 44

-Cornelius Tacitus, a 1st and 2nd century Roman historian.

Considered one of the greatest historians of ancient Rome, Tacitus verifies the Biblical account of Jesus' execution at the hands of Pontius Pilate who governed Judea from 26-36 A.D. during the reign of Tiberius.

“Dont kill innocent people just”

Since: Jul 12

"because they're inconvenient"

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#162678
Mar 27, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
How can it be between me and this god concept that you cannot even make a case for? Not only can you not show proof you are unable to even articulate a basic argument for your assertion!
All you can do is burp you believe god exists? Seriously? Completely unable to even craft a semi logical case to back up your assertion? Nothing? You got nothing?
<quoted text>
I guess you missed the "I believe in God because" part...

You're such an opinionated fool.

“Dont kill innocent people just”

Since: Jul 12

"because they're inconvenient"

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#162679
Mar 27, 2013
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
If there is no way, even theoretically, for detection (which means via science) to happen, then the existence is meaningless.
I suppose you believe we've finished the periodic table....
Similar, from what I have heard to what people experience on psychedelics. That doesn't make the experience true or correctly interpreted.
True. I interpret it the way I want.

And I want to interpret it the way I have.

Problem?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#162680
Mar 27, 2013
 
But they didn't understand the concept of right and wrong before they ate the fruit right? Or did the bible lie?

You suck at this I must say.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>Ugh..

Yes, they did know. It's in Genesis 2 AND Genesis 3...

Genesis 3
2 The woman said to the serpent,“We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,
3 but God did say,‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

“Dont kill innocent people just”

Since: Jul 12

"because they're inconvenient"

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#162681
Mar 27, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
How do you know god can't be scientifically tested by anyone? You are privy to the knowledge and abilities of every person that ever has and ever will exist?
<quoted text>
If someone could scientifically scrutinize God, don't you think they would have by now?

Idiot, I never said we never will be able to, did I?

Is that your "freethinking" hard at work again?

HA HA HA !!!

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#162682
Mar 27, 2013
 
Again how do you know it was god?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>Oh no, not another one....

"If science can't detect it, it doesn't exist."

Blah

[QUOTE] Belief comes after evidence that convinces. It is not a choice. Either the evidence is there and convinces you or it isn't or doesn't. The choice comes in *saying* you believe or disbelieve and whether you attempt to delude yourself by not thinking about the subject."

Very good and very true.

I almost lost my faith when I was young. It wasn't until God touched me & spoke to me did I change my thinking on it.

It's an amazing feeling when you feel God's presence, it really is.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#162683
Mar 27, 2013
 
I rely on facts not hallucinations like you. Again can you even make a reasonable case for your god assertion beyond your delusion?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>I guess you missed the "I believe in God because" part...

You're such an opinionated fool.

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