Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258471 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Since: Sep 08

United States

#233034 Jul 19, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Esoteric? You idiot, I'm talking about astrophysics and cosmology, these are far from esoteric. They are the bastion of human knowledge. They are not beliefs, rather they are the knowledge of the universe and the physical reality. But then again I guess you would think school is where you learn some religious rites or hidden knowledge.
Let me tell you a story that enlightened old Dave to some realities in life.

In my early twenties I was a hot shot engineering grade technician on some very hairy electromechanical switching equipment. This wasn't simple binary digital logic, this was analog with multiple inputs of varying voltages to a connection with the associated components calibrated mechanically and electrically to fall within a tolerance range, and these connections were just links in a longer train. It was similar to an organic neural network. I was good. These skills enabled me to fix and tune a variety of electrical devices, including TVs and radios. Didn't always understand what I was doing on the electronic wave side, but knew how to make and condition connections to get it to work, especially if I had a schematic. I was an ace schematic reader.

I had a Datsun in Turkey that developed an alternator problem. For the life of me I could not locate the problem and fix it. Fairly simple circuitry, but I just couldn't find the problem. So I swallowed my pride and went looking for a repair shop. Understand they didn't have places like they do here, plus a Datsun was an extremely rare car to be in that country at the time. So I wind up at this little dirt floor shop with the local mechanics squatting in the dirt. And they didn't speak English. But I managed to get the guy to understand the general problem. He had his son take off the skid pan underneath and scrape the dirt and clean it up as he took it off, looked at it, scratched his head, and went walking down the street to another shop. After a while he came back with it, wiped some grime off it, and reinstalled it. It worked perfectly for the next 5 years I had the car. It cost me $7. In the States a dealer would have had me buy a new one. There were none to buy in Turkey.

I felt very humbled by third worlders squatting in the dirt with no formal education or training with obviously a better understanding than I had of the situation. They had to use their brains instead of their "knowledge".

It ain't what you know, but how you know it.

A few years ago when I was still living in NM I had a neighbor that was a certified GM and Ford mechanic. A very bright young man with a $4000 tool box and diagnostic equipment, and had even run the service departments at a couple of new car dealers. He was a very good craftsman. He bought a used IROC that had an issue or two after the previous owners had rebuilt the engine. He was going to fix it and sell it. After a couple of months driving it I saw him in his driveway with the hood up and piddling with it. I walked over and found he never fixed the problems, which was the cruise control didn't work and it idled all wrong which also caused an overheating problem I believe. He couldn't figure it out. I had never even looked under the hood of one before, but figured I would take a gander after he described the issues. I've worked on a few cars in my time. I traced the vacuum line back from the cruise control to the vacuum port on the intake manifold, which was more than just a fitting and had 2 or 3 fittings. The arrangement didn't look quite right. Switched a couple of vacuum lines by intuition and it idled right and the cruise control worked. They hooked the hoses up wrong after rebuilding the engine. I winked and smiled and went back home thinking of that Turk squatting in the dirt years ago. He sold the car shortly after that day.

It ain't what you know, but how you know it.

:-)

Get off your esoteric high horse.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#233035 Jul 19, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
It's infinite until it stops, for the simple reason it cannot be traversed by infinite travel or measured by calculating. You would have to calculate for infinite time and never have the dimensions.
Then for the physical distance to reach infinite distance, it would have to expand for an infinite time.

Expansion occurs over finite time. So the distance cannot be infinite.

The distance is the average rate of expansion X 13.8 billion years.

Both are finite.

How can they be multiplied to reach an ifinite product?

Again, tell us two numbers that when multiplied yield a product that is infinite.

I'm waiting.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#233036 Jul 19, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>

It's infinite until it stops,
So if it stops, the infinite becomes finite???

Do you realize how stupid that is?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#233037 Jul 19, 2014
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
Frankly. it's all you deserve.
Please reply to others... you bore me to the extreme.
Sure. You're so bored you had to read my reply and type a response.

And don't call me Frankly.

You are a moron. How do you like that?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#233038 Jul 19, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>

You would have to calculate for infinite time and never have the dimensions.
I didn't ask for the dimensions.

I asked for the largest finite dimension.

If it is a physical phenomenon, it has physical dimension.

What is the largest finite?

In other words, what was the finite expansion immediately before infinite?

And don't forget - I'm still waiting for the two numbers you multiply to yield an infinite sum, as in:

"A" (average rate of expansion) X "B"(elapsed time)= infinite distance

You don't even have to be accurate on "A" and "B".

I'll take any number.

Go.

“The Sky Is Falling!”

Since: Apr 07

Seattle, WA

#233039 Jul 19, 2014
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Back in my day, when men were men and women were women you had to figure things out from scratch. Pencil and paper and brain power. Nowadays you young whippersnappers access preset blocks of instructions and think you "know" something. "Experts" by programming. Makes a grown man want to puke.
Well then, puke on! You do it well...

Your pomposity reminds me of this quote:

"The arrogance of age must submit to be taught by youth." - Edmund Burke

Since: Sep 08

United States

#233040 Jul 19, 2014
eyeful wrote:
<quoted text>
Well then, puke on! You do it well...
Your pomposity reminds me of this quote:
"The arrogance of age must submit to be taught by youth." - Edmund Burke
Of course it would remind you of something you read.

That is all you have to work with.

:-)

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#233041 Jul 19, 2014
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course it would remind you of something you read.
That is all you have to work with.
:-)
I'll ask you, Dave, since Aunt Martha can't answer.

What values for A (average rate of expansion) X B (elapsed time)= Infinite distance?

He says that infinite distance is a physical phenomenon.

Just want to know how it got there. Always curious.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#233043 Jul 19, 2014
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me tell you a story that enlightened old Dave to some realities in life.
In my early twenties I was a hot shot engineering grade technician on some very hairy electromechanical switching equipment.. They hooked the hoses up wrong after rebuilding the engine. I winked and smiled and went back home thinking of that Turk squatting in the dirt years ago. He sold the car shortly after that day.
It ain't what you know, but how you know it.
:-)
When you were in your twenties , cars were much simpler and you could diagnose them much easier. Alternators could be rebuilt for 5-10$ and a rebuilt one could be had for 20$, the solution was time , but sometimes if money was that tight you could spend the several hours rebuilding a part to save a little money.
But it was always faster and more convenient to just replace a defective part, these in include master cylinders and brake cylinders etc.
Today's cars are quite complicated, so much so that even experienced mechanics have to play a guessing game, the code readers are sometimes worthless. The age old problems are the same, but are masked by modern parts. So it is and everyone will tell you even the dealerships with mechanics certified on specific cars with specific diagnostic equipment, cant seem to fix them in many cases.
This is intentional I think so you will trade up and they can keep selling new cars.
But all this doesn't stop me, I can still do it all, things just get you stumped more for awhile.
But my wife once told me when stumped on a car.

You'll figure it out, you always do.:)

But

Since: Sep 08

United States

#233044 Jul 19, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll ask you, Dave, since Aunt Martha can't answer.
What values for A (average rate of expansion) X B (elapsed time)= Infinite distance?
He says that infinite distance is a physical phenomenon.
Just want to know how it got there. Always curious.
I think zero, representing nuttin', is the only number you can use in such an equation representing infinity. Which is nuttin', which doesn't exist. Except as a multiplier for the mental power of a Topix atheist. Infinitely stupid as Einstein predicted. Or something like that.

These boys don't understand something about their observations. The stars can "touch" them, but they can't touch the stars.

Directly anyhow. But the laws of thermodynamics allows for other routes to "observe" or "measure" with. But they be too stoopid to figure them out.

Their meadurements are in error

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#233045 Jul 19, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll ask you, Dave, since Aunt Martha can't answer.
What values for A (average rate of expansion) X B (elapsed time)= Infinite distance?
He says that infinite distance is a physical phenomenon.
Just want to know how it got there. Always curious.
If space is infinite now, it was infinite from the start.
By all measure it appears infinite, but we are talking about the dynamics of general relativity and the cosmic event horizon. There is a big difference as event horizons don't behave according to our logic. The expansion of space/time beyond the speed of light causes an infinity for us, it's beyond the physical limitations of our existence, and creates an insurmountable reality of infinite proportions.
The supermassive black holes are another space/time phenomena that create physical limitations beyond the rules of our existence, and creates an insurmountable reality of infinite proportions. For the same reasons but instead of infinite expansion , it's infinite compression, that causes it.

Since: Sep 08

United States

#233046 Jul 19, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> When you were in your twenties , cars were much simpler and you could diagnose them much easier. Alternators could be rebuilt for 5-10$ and a rebuilt one could be had for 20$, the solution was time , but sometimes if money was that tight you could spend the several hours rebuilding a part to save a little money.
But it was always faster and more convenient to just replace a defective part, these in include master cylinders and brake cylinders etc.
Today's cars are quite complicated, so much so that even experienced mechanics have to play a guessing game, the code readers are sometimes worthless. The age old problems are the same, but are masked by modern parts. So it is and everyone will tell you even the dealerships with mechanics certified on specific cars with specific diagnostic equipment, cant seem to fix them in many cases.
This is intentional I think so you will trade up and they can keep selling new cars.
But all this doesn't stop me, I can still do it all, things just get you stumped more for awhile.
But my wife once told me when stumped on a car.
You'll figure it out, you always do.:)
But
Datsun parts at the time were expensive. No after market was established yet. Dealer repair rates were exorbitant then, and now, so rebuilding is false economy and expensive. Agree with everything else you said.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#233047 Jul 19, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't ask for the dimensions.
I asked for the largest finite dimension.
If it is a physical phenomenon, it has physical dimension.
What is the largest finite?
In other words, what was the finite expansion immediately before infinite?
And don't forget - I'm still waiting for the two numbers you multiply to yield an infinite sum, as in:
"A" (average rate of expansion) X "B"(elapsed time)= infinite distance
You don't even have to be accurate on "A" and "B".
I'll take any number.
Go.
The largest finite measure is "the observable universe".14.3 billion parsecs or 46.6 billion light year radius making it about 93 billion ly across.
But this is to the first barrier, the light barrier and we know it's much larger than this.

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Manhattan Beach, CA

#233048 Jul 19, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
"the physical world is all there is"
Yes, that is a belief.
Before shipbuilding, a spot of land and an ocean was "all there is".
Hey Buck.

Where is this place I saw discussed a few hours ago, where everybody loves soccer?

I'd like to find it.

I hope it's in the physical world.

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Manhattan Beach, CA

#233049 Jul 19, 2014
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>

I had a Datsun in Turkey .
I have a Datsun here in California.

1968 1600 Fairlady roadster.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#233050 Jul 19, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a Datsun here in California.
1968 1600 Fairlady roadster.
There prolly are less than a dozen of them in the us nowaday. It's a treasure 4 sure..:)

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#233051 Jul 19, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> The largest finite measure is "the observable universe".14.3 billion parsecs or 46.6 billion light year radius making it about 93 billion ly across.
But this is to the first barrier, the light barrier and we know it's much larger than this.
I see.

The largest finite measure is 46.6 billion light years.

So 46.600001 light years is infinite.

Got it.

The expansion is infinite when it reaches the finite radius of 46.60001 light years.

Finite distance is infinite distance.

Thanks for clearing that up.

By the way, since what you are saying is stupid, and 46.60001 is not infinite,...

...is 46.60002 infinite? No?

then is 46.60003 infinite? No?

then is 46.60004 infinite? No?

Then please tell me at what distance the distance ceases to be finite???

Since: Sep 08

United States

#233052 Jul 19, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a Datsun here in California.
1968 1600 Fairlady roadster.
That had to be a rare bird. Datsun and Toyora didn't start taking off until 71-72. Mine was a 1971 Pl510 I bought new for $2600. The pickup ran $1600, and the 240Z was $3600 with a waiting list.

Mine burned up ignition condensers from getting hot. Problem ended when I mounted it externally. Emission controls started then and caused problems. But I LOVED that car.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#233053 Jul 19, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
If space is infinite now, it was infinite from the start.
By all measure it appears infinite, but we are talking about the dynamics of general relativity and the cosmic event horizon. There is a big difference as event horizons don't behave according to our logic. The expansion of space/time beyond the speed of light causes an infinity for us, it's beyond the physical limitations of our existence, and creates an insurmountable reality of infinite proportions.
The supermassive black holes are another space/time phenomena that create physical limitations beyond the rules of our existence, and creates an insurmountable reality of infinite proportions. For the same reasons but instead of infinite expansion , it's infinite compression, that causes it.
Space could not have started infinite.

Space only exists with separation of objects, in this case, beginning with the extremely dense singularity.

This was all the universe, and the universe is all there is.

If it's expansion is to an infinite distance, as you claim, it had to reach infinite distance by a sequence of addition of space.

That's impossible. You can look it up.

Tell me do you know the difference in saying a distance is "infinite" and saying the distance is "unknown"?

I don't think you do.
Lab28

Anaheim, CA

#233054 Jul 19, 2014
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =rf_dQk9iaSYXX
I do it without being called, actually.
Good!

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