Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258476 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Lab28

Anaheim, CA

#232355 Jul 12, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
If you can count a portion of it, it is not infinite. That's why Hilbert's Hotel illustrates the contradiction.
When you walk up your staircase, no matter how long you walk, you would be no closer to infinite steps than when you stood on the first step. That's why such a realized phenomenon is impossible.
Indefinite?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#232356 Jul 12, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you're projecting something I haven't said. I never said you got any closer to an infinite sum, any finite sums added up will never reach an infinite sum.
But that doesn't mean you can't count parts or add parts to an infinite sum.
I gave you a real world scenario that is exactly that, no amount of travel will get you to the destination, because the destination is an infinite distance away.
You're just full of crap Buck, the Grand hotel is an example of how additions can be made to an infinite sum. But it works the same way with subtraction, you can infinitly subtract from an infinite sum. When the grand hotel patrons leave, there is a infinitely long line exiting the door , and it never ends.
You gave nothing. You gave no infinite distance in the real world. It is impossible.

You need to explain how a finite distance can become infinite by addition, which you already admitted cannot happen, but also claim to happen.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#232357 Jul 12, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
The universe is beyond human comprehension by classical logic in it's extent.
Baffling as it is, it spans an infinite distance.

You just said it is beyond human comprehension, then said it is humanly comprehended to be infinite.

There is no "infinite distance", and such a distance is impossible.

Hilbert proved infinite changes are impossible.

The universe has finite particles expanding for a finite time at a finite speed.

When does that become infinite?

What physicists know about the extent of the universe is that it is larger than the observable universe and they cannot measure it.

It is convenient to call that "infinite".

You don't understand this, because you are very naive and enamored with science theory.

I suspect you loved Star Wars and Harry Potter.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#232358 Jul 12, 2014
Lab28 wrote:
<quoted text>
I would argue that everyone has issues with sex. It was an attempt at humor so I'm going to skip the "sex is beautiful, but it's also dangerous" sermon.
hahaha

:)

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#232359 Jul 12, 2014
Lab28 wrote:
<quoted text>
The neurons that govern religiosity? So you mean you can measure how likely somebody is to take things on blind faith, or how likely someone is to conform to the doctrines of a religion. How stubborn someone is? Because that plays a role too. I think if we scanned enough people in this forum we could come up with a conclusive answer to the topic at hand.
No, I don't think so. I sort of overstepped there, sorry. But I think we could in the future. Right now the best we can do is correlate some areas - the left temporal lobe - that, when damage, increases religiosity.

Here's a google scholar search for "religiosity neuroscience" - some interesting finds!

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#232360 Jul 12, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
The universe has finite particles expanding for a finite time at a finite speed.
The speeds is actually increasing with time, and speeding up. How do you know it's finite?

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#232361 Jul 12, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
You gave nothing. You gave no infinite distance in the real world. It is impossible.
You need to explain how a finite distance can become infinite by addition, which you already admitted cannot happen, but also claim to happen.
You are correct in one aspect.
You have to travel an infinite distance to get there, in other words it's impossible, because you cant traverse an infinite distance. But the phenomenon is a real and tangible fact of the cosmological event horizon.,
It would be like exactly like climbing the infinite staircase.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#232362 Jul 12, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
You just said it is beyond human comprehension, then said it is humanly comprehended to be infinite.
There is no "infinite distance", and such a distance is impossible.
Hilbert proved infinite changes are impossible.
The universe has finite particles expanding for a finite time at a finite speed.
When does that become infinite?
What physicists know about the extent of the universe is that it is larger than the observable universe and they cannot measure it.
It is convenient to call that "infinite".
You don't understand this, because you are very naive and enamored with science theory.
I suspect you loved Star Wars and Harry Potter.
I suspect you don't study cosmology.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#232363 Jul 12, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
It has nothing to do with human logic, it has to do with a realization of the physical universe.
What cannot be apparently is in cosmological terms.
How we cope with this is irrelevant, how we protest it logically will not change it.
How this can be, we have no logic to explain.
The universe is beyond human comprehension by classical logic in it's extent.
Baffling as it is, it spans an infinite distance.
Impossibility of Actual Infinities

Two hypothetical possibilities:

"(1) It acquired actual infinity by some process of successive finite addition, in all systems involved. This is impossible, because we can never arrive at infinity by successive addition, and with specific coordination of all systems, i.e. there is no physical process whereby we could achieve such an in-completable state of an entity in space or an event in time.

"(2) It was produced as an actual infinity all at once. This assumed process is also impossible because it demands ‘all at once’ simultaneity, which is again totally coordinate-dependent as the above alternative, with respect to all other infinite systems involved."

William R. Stoeger, Ph.D. in astrophysics; specializing in high-energy astrophsics and cosmology.

“LOL Really?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#232364 Jul 12, 2014
Anybody want a doughnut?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#232365 Jul 12, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
I suspect you don't study cosmology.
A bit. I'm just not stupid like you.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#232366 Jul 12, 2014

"The reason for introducing the concept of actual infinity into a cosmological theory is usually when, in the thought process of a scientific logic, an unresolvable problem (a ‘gap’) appears that has to be filled in. It is also used when the word infinity sounds mysterious enough to simply become a part of an elegant solution. Nevertheless, cosmologists seem blissfully unaware that by using this concept they inadvertently create a big problem for themselves.
The nature of the problem is that, whenever the concept of actual infinity is introduced into a cosmological theory, they simultaneously have to make an unavoidable reference to its identifiable and finite physical properties. This is because it is a fact of reality that dictates: without such a reference nobody would know what you are talking about. The above described illogical thought process creates the biggest stumbling block for modern cosmologists – as further described in the following contradictions. These contradictions are, however, almost impossible to recognise by a non-critical reader and include:

The First Contradiction: When, in a theory, a physical ‘magnitude’ of an entity or event that has finite and measurable properties is described or implied as either ‘infinitely’ small or ‘infinitely’ large, it is against the logic of the ‘Principle of Contradiction’, which says that ‘What is now measurable and finite, cannot be at once, and simultaneously, immeasurable and infinite.’

The Second Contradiction: When, in a theory, a physical ‘magnitude’ of an entity or event that has finite and measurable properties is described or implied and those properties are also the attributes of ‘actual infinity’, it is against the logic of the ‘Principle of Identity’, which says that ‘If ‘infinity’ would possess ‘finite properties’, it could no longer be identifiable as being infinite."

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#232367 Jul 12, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct in one aspect.
You have to travel an infinite distance to get there, in other words it's impossible, because you cant traverse an infinite distance. But the phenomenon is a real and tangible fact of the cosmological event horizon.,
It would be like exactly like climbing the infinite staircase.
That's the dumbest comment yet.

Cosmologists don't even regard it as "real and tangible".

You propose a tangible impossibility.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#232369 Jul 12, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't change anything.
Atheism, from the Greek a-theos ("no-god"), is the philosophical position that God doesn't exist. It is distinguished from agnosticism, the argument that it is impossible to know whether God exists or not (Academic American Encyclopedia).
Atheism, system of thought developed around the denial of God's existence. Atheism, so defined, first appeared during the Enlightenment, the age of reason (Random House Encyclopedia).
Atheism is the doctrine that there is no God.(Oxford Companion to Philosophy).
Atheism (Greek, a-[private prefix]+ theos, god) is the view that there is no divine being, no God (Dictionary of Philosophy, Thomas Mautner, Editor).
Atheism is the belief that God doesn't exist (The World Book Encyclopedia).
Atheism, commonly speaking, is the denial of God. Theism (from the Greek theos, God) is belief in or conceptualization of God, atheism is the rejection of such belief or conceptualization.In the ancient world atheism was rarely a clearly formulated position (Encyclopedia Americana).
Atheism, the critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or spiritual beings. Atheism is to be distinguished from agnosticism, which leaves open whether there is a god or not, professing to find the question unanswerable, for the atheist, the non-existence of god is a certainty (The New Encyclopedia Britannia).
According to the most usual definition, an atheist is a person who maintains that there is no god…(rejects eccentric definitions of the word)(The Encyclopedia of Philosophy).
Atheism is the doctrine that God does not exist, that belief in the existence of God is a false belief. The word God here refers to a divine being regarded as the independent creator of the world, a being superlatively powerful, wise and good (Encyclopedia of Religion).
Atheism (Greek and Roman): Atheism is a dogmatic creed, consisting in the denial of every kind of supernatural power. Atheism has not often been seriously maintained at any period of civilized thought (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics-Vol II).
Atheism denies the existence of deity (Funk and Wagnall's New Encyclopedia-Vol I).
What does "theist" mean? "from the Greek theos meaning "god""
What does "symmetrical" mean? "agreement in dimensions, due proportion, arrangement"

In the Greek language, what did putting an "A" in front of a word change the meaning too? Yeah, "without, lacking"
As an Atheist, I lack a belief in a god.I deny the existence of a god because of the lack of evidence for one. Much like most adults lack a belief in the Tooth Fairy.

But I don't really care what you or anyone else says; I see no evidence for a god and of the three Abrahamic religions, the bible, torah, and qur'an prove that god does not exist as written!

To the point: a baby has no beliefs, in any god, until their families indoctrinate them.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#232370 Jul 12, 2014
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..curious ,,??
Then , why ( may I ask ) do you heathens find Christianity to be so very difficult ..
from " your " description ...Christianity , sound pretty easy breezy ..
I don't know what you mean. Belief is easy for the indoctrinated, the abused, the lonely and a recovering addict, If you have not suffered from one of these, you most likely will not fall for a religion.

Why did you, if you are, pick christianity? Would you have picked christianity, if you lived in Iran and your parents would muslim? The chances are very slim that you would have.

If you were raise on one of the Pacific islands, 600 years ago, would you have picked christainity? No.

So, you had to have been born into the right family, at the right time and in the right place to be a christian, the odds decrease drastically if just one of these elements are missing.

Now, how did I escape christianity when all the elements were intact. Everyone in my family, all that were known to me, attended a christian church nearly every Sunday. All said a blessing before meals. I attended Sunday school, all the youth programs, and meetings I could. How did I escape?

I made a terrible mistake! When I was about 10, I had my doubts. When I was 12, I was pretty sure, but I thought, my family all believed and they were not idiots, it must be me! Maybe I missed a part of the bible that would make it clear for me. Once I turned 16, I skipped church as often as I could. At 18, I left home and only attended church when the Drill Sargents made me. When my first child came along, I let the fear from my indoctrination kick in and thought, to save his soul, I had better get him to church. I did put it off until he was 9 or so. I still did not believe, but indoctrination overrode my intellect. After taking him for a few years, I asked him what he thought. He said something like, "No, I don't believe all that but I like the kids." While sitting in church, the preacher did his normal bit of cherry picking the bible. but when he was done reading from the OT reading, I kept reading. I often wondered why they read only a few or two and then said, "Shut your bibles and let us pray." It was because they don't want you to read the rest and what christian would, when the preacher is saying a prayer?

When I got to the part of slavery and the part of that tells what happens when the male slave decides to leave. I knew I was right in not believing. What god would make a law that states a man can own another man's wife and children and pass those people down to their heirs like cattle?

Then I read about forcing a rape victim to marry her rapist and how the father was to be given the 'virgin bride' price for her! No supreme being would ever come up with this crap! This is 500 BCE and before man coming up with this crap!

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#232371 Jul 12, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
That's the dumbest comment yet.
Cosmologists don't even regard it as "real and tangible".
You propose a tangible impossibility.
As impossible as we might find it, the universe is beyond comprehension.
It's funny you can't grasp this concept, that the speed of expansion is faster than light, making it impossible to traverse the distance. It's the very same thing as running 100 mph trying to catch something going 105 mph. You will never catch it, it will recede into infinity.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#232372 Jul 12, 2014
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know what you mean. Belief is easy for the indoctrinated, the abused, the lonely and a recovering addict, If you have not suffered from one of these, you most likely will not fall for a religion.
Why did you, if you are, pick christianity? Would you have picked christianity, if you lived in Iran and your parents would muslim? The chances are very slim that you would have.
If you were raise on one of the Pacific islands, 600 years ago, would you have picked christainity? No.
So, you had to have been born into the right family, at the right time and in the right place to be a christian, the odds decrease drastically if just one of these elements are missing.
Now, how did I escape christianity when all the elements were intact. Everyone in my family, all that were known to me, attended a christian church nearly every Sunday. All said a blessing before meals. I attended Sunday school, all the youth programs, and meetings I could. How did I escape?
I made a terrible mistake! When I was about 10, I had my doubts. When I was 12, I was pretty sure, but I thought, my family all believed and they were not idiots, it must be me! Maybe I missed a part of the bible that would make it clear for me. Once I turned 16, I skipped church as often as I could. At 18, I left home and only attended church when the Drill Sargents made me. When my first child came along, I let the fear from my indoctrination kick in and thought, to save his soul, I had better get him to church. I did put it off until he was 9 or so. I still did not believe, but indoctrination overrode my intellect. After taking him for a few years, I asked him what he thought. He said something like, "No, I don't believe all that but I like the kids." While sitting in church, the preacher did his normal bit of cherry picking the bible. but when he was done reading from the OT reading, I kept reading. I often wondered why they read only a few or two and then said, "Shut your bibles and let us pray." It was because they don't want you to read the rest and what christian would, when the preacher is saying a prayer?
When I got to the part of slavery and the part of that tells what happens when the male slave decides to leave. I knew I was right in not believing. What god would make a law that states a man can own another man's wife and children and pass those people down to their heirs like cattle?
Then I read about forcing a rape victim to marry her rapist and how the father was to be given the 'virgin bride' price for her! No supreme being would ever come up with this crap! This is 500 BCE and before man coming up with this crap!
Quite a few of us made a most similar intellectual journey.
Reading the bible is one of the surest paths to unbelief - but what do I think willl finally kill off religion?

Google.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#232373 Jul 12, 2014
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
What does "theist" mean? "from the Greek theos meaning "god""
What does "symmetrical" mean? "agreement in dimensions, due proportion, arrangement"
In the Greek language, what did putting an "A" in front of a word change the meaning too? Yeah, "without, lacking"
As an Atheist, I lack a belief in a god.I deny the existence of a god because of the lack of evidence for one. Much like most adults lack a belief in the Tooth Fairy.
But I don't really care what you or anyone else says; I see no evidence for a god and of the three Abrahamic religions, the bible, torah, and qur'an prove that god does not exist as written!
To the point: a baby has no beliefs, in any god, until their families indoctrinate them.
As you deny the existence of a god, you believe there is no god.

Since you cannot know for certain there is no god, your belief is a belief, just as theism is a belief.

Both are projections of belief beyond known data.

The lie we are peddled recently is that the belief that there is no god is not a belief, but simply an objective position, or the objective default position.

It is a rhetorical trick and a lie.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#232374 Jul 12, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
As impossible as we might find it, the universe is beyond comprehension.
It's funny you can't grasp this concept, that the speed of expansion is faster than light, making it impossible to traverse the distance. It's the very same thing as running 100 mph trying to catch something going 105 mph. You will never catch it, it will recede into infinity.
Absolutely wrong. You couldn't be more wrong if you set out to be wrong.

The 100mph traveler would never catch the 105mph traveler.

But the 105mph traveler would never travel anything but a finite distance, even though the slower traveler could not see him.

He would travel 105 miles for each hour he traveled - which is a finite distance, and will always be a finite distance, no matter how long he travels. If he speeds up to 120mph, or even 1000mph, he will never travel anything but a finite distance.

You are proving my point.
__________

It cannot be "impossible to traverse the distance" of the expansion because, according to you, the universe expansion DID traverse the distance.

Traversing the distance requires it to be FINITE.

If it cannot be traversed, the universe expansion did not traverse it, and it is thus a FINITE UNIVERSE.

Either way, you have a finite universe. An infinite universe is impossible.
Patrick

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#232375 Jul 12, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Noah's pier ,bait and tackle shop.
Membership sold in pairs.
Come rain or shine!
LOL

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