Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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“The eye has it...”

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Russell's Teapot

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#219661
Mar 16, 2014
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
No.
I condone killing, in particular instances, for ACTIONS, not beliefs.
Actions are based upon beliefs. Certainly, pulling the trigger of a weapon with the intent to kill another is an action based upon a belief.

Also, a wife or child supporting a father - by being participants in that family is a belief and action - just as it's a belief and action of the father to support his wife and child, etc...

Now you're asserting that a mother and child being in the vicinity of a father/husband that acted upon his belief - and the mother and child dying due to their belief they are a part of his family - is an action, of what?

This is why you are seen as disingenuous.









I have to point out original or inherited "sin" is the cornerstone of your religious belief, so I do understand why the concept of belief and actions elude you.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#219662
Mar 16, 2014
 

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scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
From your link:
"While the numbers of subjects was small (17 in each group), he found evidence to support his recommendation that, while Teen Challenge was an "effective" treatment (with a drug recidivism rate after 29 months of 32%), Transactional Analysis was a "very effective" treatment (with a comparable 16% rate), suggesting that perhaps the lower recidivism rates were a result of TA changing the addiction concept of the self-image more thoroughly and at a slower pace."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_Challenge#S...
More about Transactional Analysis:
"Transactional analysis (TA to its adherents), is an integrative approach to the theory of psychology and psychotherapy.
It is described as integrative because it has elements of psychoanalytic, humanist and cognitive approaches."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_an...
And you ignored the later and larger studies.

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

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#219663
Mar 16, 2014
 

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scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
<lightbeanrider> "... I am fully aware the bible supported slavery, and was even used to support slavery by the Anti-Abolishionists .... hmmm ... Heck, even my deity commanded that slaves should be taken ... Now, show me something that trumps the advocacy of slavery in my bible..."
.. when I compared 9-11 with the atrocities and murders being committed against women in countries like Uganda and Afghanistan, lightbeamrider became angry with me ..

.. one day while posting my usual brilliant philosophical discourses on Topix, this pretend ringleader of an infamous Topix terrorist group known for their merciless and violent attacks on atheists saw his opportunity ..

.. the soldier assessed the situation, rallied the troops. Fortunately, I had my scarves. After beating him regularly, he begged to become my slave ..

.. currently, he's screaming in my dungeon, something about, under certain circumstances, slavery is acceptable, even humane. I'll continue to feed and water him regularly cause I'm merciful ..
ROCCO

Desert Hot Springs, CA

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#219664
Mar 16, 2014
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
On average, an inmate in the US costs taxpayers $23,000 a year.
So if you figure some schmuck that murdered his wife for cheating on him gets life in prison, her life's apparent worth is determined on the man's age and how long his life is.
Assume he kills her at 25 and lives until he's 70, in prison.
Then the dollar amount for a life is $1,035,000.
Or we can go to Home Depot, but a rope for $19.99 and reuse it on every scumbag murderer like him.
I'm sure you know that both Home Depot and Lowe's will give a 10% discount to veterans.

Even on special orders.

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

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#219665
Mar 16, 2014
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You're blaming every Christian as an argument against them unjustly. You're trying to make it seem that since some Christians chose to own slaves, all must want to.
If you blame all Christians for the actions of a few members of the religion, I could just as well blame you for all lesbian violence.
.. actually, it was the mindset of slave owners, their attachment to greed and materialism, not religion ..

.. the bible simply provided a justification for such an evil practice ..

.. lesbian violence? Seeing that you're into violent porn, this should get your motor running ..

xxx

http://strictlylesbianbondage.tumblr.com/imag...

“The eye has it...”

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#219666
Mar 16, 2014
 

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KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
And you ignored the later and larger studies.
I didn't, and thanks for the segue...

According to a 2001 New York Times item, it is the opinion of some social scientists that the 86 percent success rate of Teen Challenge is misleading, as it does not count the people who dropped out during the program, and that, like many voluntary NGO's, Teen Challenge picks its clients. The item quotes the Rev. John D. Castellani, then president of Teen Challenge International U.S.A., as saying that most of the addicts have already been through detoxification programs, before they are admitted. In the program's first four-month phase, Mr. Castellani said, 25 to 30 percent drop out, and in the next eight months, 10 percent more leave. In their testimony before the United States House Committee on Ways and Means, the Texas Freedom Network Education Fund, have similarly testified that the much quoted success rates "dramatically distort the truth", due to the lack of reference to the high drop out rate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_Challenge#S...

It gets worse...

"Teen Challenge was cited in public policy debates as an example of why such programs merit the federal funding of faith-based organizations. Its documented success rates played a role in the establishment of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives in 2001.

Conversely, such funding has come under attack through comments by John Castellani, the former President of Teen Challenge USA, during a House Government Reform subcommittee, examining the efficacy of religious social service providers.

During the hearing, Castellani said Teen Challenge does not hire non-Christians as employees and, when asked if the group takes non-Christians as clients, he said yes, and boasted that some Jews who finish his Teen Challenge program become "completed Jews." Critics of faith-based funding cite this as an example of how religious intolerance could be publicly funded.(The "completed Jews" phrase is often used by Christians and Messianic Jews to refer to Jewish people who become believers in Yeshua (Jesus). The phrase is considered offensive to many Jewish groups because it suggests Jews are "incomplete" unless they believe in the divinity of Jesus.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_Challenge#S...




All from the link you supplied.



Can I get a Smirkyface?

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#219667
Mar 16, 2014
 

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Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. in America, Christians endorsed and promoted the concept of slavery ..
.. under all circumstances, the enslavery of another human being is amoral ..
.. to defend such a vile practice will only lead to an ignominious defeat by your peers ..
So did the United States government. That is what you leave out. Selective in your facts. I gave you the links. Slavery was endorsed and opposed for many different reason yet you single out the South's defense of slavery using the Bible and ignore everything else. How can anyone take you seriously when you find common ground with racist slave owners?

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#219668
Mar 16, 2014
 

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Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. when I compared 9-11 with the atrocities and murders being committed against women in countries like Uganda and Afghanistan, lightbeamrider became angry with me ..
You indirectly blamed Christianity for 9/11 by lumping the Abrahamic religions all together while ignoring the differences. Uganda views homosexuals in the same manner we view pedophiles. They resent western pro homosexual influence especially on their youth. They are sovereign nations and they have that right and it has historical precedent.
.. one day while posting my usual brilliant philosophical discourses on Topix, this pretend ringleader of an infamous Topix terrorist group known for their merciless and violent attacks on atheists saw his opportunity ..
.. the soldier assessed the situation, rallied the troops. Fortunately, I had my scarves. After beating him regularly, he begged to become my slave ..
.. currently, he's screaming in my dungeon, something about, under certain circumstances, slavery is acceptable, even humane. I'll continue to feed and water him regularly cause I'm merciful ..
I think critics want to be able to bash Christians with impunity and then whine when Christians defend their beliefs, which is their right, and point out logical consequences of unbelief.

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#219669
Mar 16, 2014
 

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scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't, and thanks for the segue...
According to a 2001 New York Times item, it is the opinion of some social scientists that the 86 percent success rate of Teen Challenge is misleading, as it does not count the people who dropped out during the program, and that, like many voluntary NGO's, Teen Challenge picks its clients. The item quotes the Rev. John D. Castellani, then president of Teen Challenge International U.S.A., as saying that most of the addicts have already been through detoxification programs, before they are admitted. In the program's first four-month phase, Mr. Castellani said, 25 to 30 percent drop out, and in the next eight months, 10 percent more leave. In their testimony before the United States House Committee on Ways and Means, the Texas Freedom Network Education Fund, have similarly testified that the much quoted success rates "dramatically distort the truth", due to the lack of reference to the high drop out rate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_Challenge#S...
It gets worse...
"Teen Challenge was cited in public policy debates as an example of why such programs merit the federal funding of faith-based organizations. Its documented success rates played a role in the establishment of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives in 2001.
Conversely, such funding has come under attack through comments by John Castellani, the former President of Teen Challenge USA, during a House Government Reform subcommittee, examining the efficacy of religious social service providers.
During the hearing, Castellani said Teen Challenge does not hire non-Christians as employees and, when asked if the group takes non-Christians as clients, he said yes, and boasted that some Jews who finish his Teen Challenge program become "completed Jews." Critics of faith-based funding cite this as an example of how religious intolerance could be publicly funded.(The "completed Jews" phrase is often used by Christians and Messianic Jews to refer to Jewish people who become believers in Yeshua (Jesus). The phrase is considered offensive to many Jewish groups because it suggests Jews are "incomplete" unless they believe in the divinity of Jesus.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_Challenge#S...
All from the link you supplied.
Can I get a Smirkyface?
I have heard that complaint before by people who were booted out of Teen Challenge. One a friend and the son of a Minister. Refusal to convert used to mean harassment at least in Minnesota. Also the patients/students or whatever they are called were constantly expected to perform fund raising activities on behalf of the organization. There were secular abuses as far as treatment of alcohol and drug dependence.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#219670
Mar 16, 2014
 

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scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't, and thanks for the segue...
According to a 2001 New York Times item, it is the opinion of some social scientists that the 86 percent success rate of Teen Challenge is misleading, as it does not count the people who dropped out during the program, and that, like many voluntary NGO's, Teen Challenge picks its clients. The item quotes the Rev. John D. Castellani, then president of Teen Challenge International U.S.A., as saying that most of the addicts have already been through detoxification programs, before they are admitted. In the program's first four-month phase, Mr. Castellani said, 25 to 30 percent drop out, and in the next eight months, 10 percent more leave. In their testimony before the United States House Committee on Ways and Means, the Texas Freedom Network Education Fund, have similarly testified that the much quoted success rates "dramatically distort the truth", due to the lack of reference to the high drop out rate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_Challenge#S...
It gets worse...
"Teen Challenge was cited in public policy debates as an example of why such programs merit the federal funding of faith-based organizations. Its documented success rates played a role in the establishment of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives in 2001.
Conversely, such funding has come under attack through comments by John Castellani, the former President of Teen Challenge USA, during a House Government Reform subcommittee, examining the efficacy of religious social service providers.
During the hearing, Castellani said Teen Challenge does not hire non-Christians as employees and, when asked if the group takes non-Christians as clients, he said yes, and boasted that some Jews who finish his Teen Challenge program become "completed Jews." Critics of faith-based funding cite this as an example of how religious intolerance could be publicly funded.(The "completed Jews" phrase is often used by Christians and Messianic Jews to refer to Jewish people who become believers in Yeshua (Jesus). The phrase is considered offensive to many Jewish groups because it suggests Jews are "incomplete" unless they believe in the divinity of Jesus.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_Challenge#S...
All from the link you supplied.
Can I get a Smirkyface?
An amazing example of how 'rational atheist' oxymorons selectively pick the negative while deceitfully ignoring anything positive for Christians.

I'll let others read the complete source.

Smirk.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

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#219674
Mar 16, 2014
 

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BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
Much like MLK and Gandhi, The verse encourages non-violent solutions.
Non-violent solutions are always better than the violent ones, without exception.

Alas, humans are what they are-- and some are so stubborn, so willfully-ignorant (read: religious), that only by **violence** can you get them to change.

If only 50% of the religious people would actually **follow** their supposed religious icons?

The world would be significantly less...

... violent.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

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#219675
Mar 16, 2014
 

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KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:

Yes, I do,...
Anal sex ...

Smile.
<quoted text>
We know, already-- you keep repeating this brag, but nobody cares, moron.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

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Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#219676
Mar 16, 2014
 

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KiMare wrote:
We KNOW you are gay already.

So what?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

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#219677
Mar 16, 2014
 

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KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
So I pay when someone else hits me?
You call that fair?
Not only that, but my rates go up?
AND you think that stops gouging???
Smirk.
You have 100% zero clue how No Fault insurance actually works.

This is quite obvious.

Or you would not have posted such stupidity, above.

You **are** some special kind of stupid.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#219678
Mar 16, 2014
 
IPSEC wrote:
<quoted text>I didn't change any words. You took Harris out of context. Just admit you were dishonest. For once. Shouldn't you be fellating Dear Leader at a local House of Con by now? You know I disagree with Harris, so that is not the point.

Here is just like what you did and this is the most famous quote mining you Dear Leaser-addled morons have.

Darwin:

To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest possible degree.

What he actually wrote:

To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest possible degree. Yet reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a perfect and complex eye to one very imperfect and simple, each grade being useful to its possessor, can be shown to exist; if further, the eye does vary ever so slightly, and the variations be inherited, which is certainly the case; and if any variation or modification in the organ be ever useful to an animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, can hardly be considered real. How a nerve comes to be sensitive to light, hardly concerns us more than how life itself first originated; but I may remark that several facts make me suspect that any sensitive nerve may be rendered sensitive to light, and likewise to those coarser vibrations of the air which produce sound.

You're not very bright.
Though he's not very bright, it's more significant that he's not very honest.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#219679
Mar 16, 2014
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
No it doesn't. Irreducible complexity means; "composed of several well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning".
And I pointed out how the sub-parts can be made to FUNCTION.

So what?

Your idiotic claim does not say HOW they function-- JUST THAT THEY FUNCTION.

And that is why Intelligent Design is STUPID.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
In other words, remove the spring of the mousetrap and you no longer have a functioning mousetrap.
So what? Even what you wrote DOES NOT REQUIRE A FUNCTIONAL MOUSETRAP.

It only requires FUNCTION-- and a spring is still functional AS A SPRING.

Even raw iron ore is STILL FUNCTIONAL AS A BUILDING MATERIAL.

Your analogy fails.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#219680
Mar 16, 2014
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>Through the people that operate them.

[QUOTE].. when you kill someone's child, you multiply your enemies .. "

When that child is being trained how to use automatic weapons and being trained to hate America and Americans, that child is already an enemy.

A child can kill you just as easily as a man.

[QUOTE]
.. ya, that's part of "Stand By Your Man" .."

"Standing by" bin Laden is supporting his terrorism, the murder of innocents and the war he waged against America.
So...are you now in agreement with Sam Harris that sometimes preemptive killing is moral.

I'm confused.:P

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#219681
Mar 16, 2014
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
That's why they always build their dams in the shallowest and narrowest part of the stream/river?
Instinct drives them to -- but they don't always pick the **best** spot.

Anyone who's actually STUDIED biology, and the behavior of beavers will tell you that.

It's pure INSTINCT.

If it was KNOWLEDGE??

They would ALWAYS choose the best spot-- they don't.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Do you even know why they build their dams?
Yes. Instinct. Even if you take newborn beavers away from their parents, transport them hundreds of miles away, but still in suitable territories? THEY WILL BUILD DAMS.

Because they have in-built ***instinct*** to do so.

IF THEY USED INTELLIGENCE? THEY WOULD REQUIRE TRAINING.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I bet a beaver can build a fan better than you.
I doubt that-- in all the history of the planet?

No beaver has EVER BEEN OBSERVED BUILDING A ...

... FAN.

LMAO!

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#219682
Mar 16, 2014
 

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scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>Happy Lesbo wrote:
.. how do drones avoid collateral damage ??..

.. when you kill someone's child, you multiply your enemies ..

.. ya, that's part of "Stand By Your Man"

So, in effect, you >do< support killing a person or people for their beliefs.

Maybe you and Sam Harris aren't so different after all.
Damn. You beat me to it.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

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#219683
Mar 16, 2014
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Who told you that? Your priest? Pat Robertson? Warren Jeffs? Kent Hovind? Sarah Palin?
Agreed. It is Abrahamic religions that state that human life is worthless.

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