Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 255263 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Jan 11

United States

#216502 Mar 3, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Men out in Kentucky view hunting and guns about as equal to sports, it's very important to them.
To them, offering to raffle off 25 guns is equivalent to a church raffling off Super bowl tickets.
We're willing to let you in on the most important truth of the universe, that will save you from an eternity of torture, and give you a path to eternal happiness. And if that doesn't do it for you, FREE GUNS!

This is just one of the more unusual examples of religion luring people in with something other than what they are actually selling. I'm a lot more disgusted with Veggie Tales and the like.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#216503 Mar 3, 2014
YellowStar wrote:
<quoted text>
Santa Claus? Magic? I never suggested either so now you're just being stupid. It's quantum physics and experiments in quantum mechanics that suggest intelligence is inherent in all matter, not me, so go argue that with quantum physicists, I'm just relying on the experts in the field...which I'll bet you are not part of.
“The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.”~Albert Einstein
I suggest you don't use Einstein to support your case because he said a LOT that goes against it. His ideas of "sacred" do not match up with yours at all.

And, yes, Santa Claus. As long as we are going to be talking about beings with no evidence of existence, why discriminate? Certainly you've heard it before? Should I have mentioned the Tooth Fairy instead? Or maybe Make Make (pronounced Mawkay Mawkay if you didn't know) if you want to get into actual gods? There is just as much evidence of Make Make as there is for Jehovah. Yet I doubt you would make a Make-Make-of-the-Gaps argument. Likely you would consider it very silly.

And, yes, magic. Miracles are magic. Miracles defy the laws of physics. Magic defies the laws of physics. Same difference. That fact may offend you, but deal with it.

I would strongly expect that I know a fair amount more about quantum mechanics than you do since I have actually studied the subject...both undergrad and graduate levels. Plus a lot of extra reading on my own. Physics is a hobby of mine.

And QM shows probabilistic behavior. Not intelligent behavior. You have been listening to someone that doesn't know anything about QM either. Electrons are not intelligent, nor do they act in a manner as if an intelligence is guiding them. While probabilistic individually, they act in a very predictable fashion when viewed en masse.

Since: Jan 11

United States

#216504 Mar 3, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Sarah Palin's hand-o-prompter.
http://mochamrclean.files.wordpress.com/2010/...
Some of the things she said really rubbed off on me.
virtuanna

Texarkana, TX

#216505 Mar 3, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Craig debated Harris and the consensus was Craig beat him.
Atheist Luke Muehlhauser of "Common Sense Atheism" declared Craig the winner.
Where are your "up and coming" young atheists to fill the gap left by Joe Stalin and Vladimir Lenin?
You just don't see good atheist lines like this one any more:
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
-Vladimir Lenin
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa ....
I couldn't care less about who debates who about their preferred ideology but, when a scumbag like Harris starts creaming himself over fantasies of killing or chemically lobotomizing all believers in any of the Abrahamic faiths then I DO care, a great deal. A creep like that needs some serious, continuous surveillance done on him. Only the sickest nihilists will find his homicidal musings attractive. Blacklagoon is a classic radical, militant psycho acolyte type.
The idiots here can't think for themselves so they come here and quote Harris and Dawkins ad nauseum. Pathetic, considering the unsubstantiated, wild claims both of them have made.

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virtuanna

Texarkana, TX

#216507 Mar 3, 2014
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
How vile would you rate an opinion that people deserve to be tortured for an eternity for lacking a specific belief?
Your idol, Harris, proposes the use of torture to gain information. Hypocrite.

Gee, it must be that untreated megalomania of his getting all inflamed and itchy. Intelligence does not preclude insanity.:)

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaaa

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“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#216508 Mar 3, 2014
YellowStar wrote:
<quoted text>
Santa Claus? Magic? I never suggested either so now you're just being stupid. It's quantum physics and experiments in quantum mechanics that suggest intelligence is inherent in all matter, not me, so go argue that with quantum physicists, I'm just relying on the experts in the field...which I'll bet you are not part of.
“The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.”~Albert Einstein
BTW...why don't you call your local university (not a Bible school) and talk to a physicist. Tell him...

"It's quantum physics and experiments in quantum mechanics that suggest intelligence is inherent in all matter, not me, so go argue that with quantum physicists, I'm just relying on the experts in the field..."

I predict one of three responses.

1) Laughter.

2) Stunned silence.

3) Calmly telling you why you are wrong.

Strange, though. I have asked theist before you to call and ask scientists what they really have to say on the subject. No theist ever seems to take up my dare. Either that, or they never admit they did and found out they were wrong.
virtuanna

Texarkana, TX

#216509 Mar 3, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
You nailed it. Harris' statement had nothing to do with self-defense. Self-defense is a response to an action, not to thoughts.
Like I said, atheists seek authority on the basis that they are better atheists than Stalin and Lenin.
Then along comes a humanist, Sam Harris, and screws the pooch.
Harris is evil and so are the idiots who idolize him.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#216510 Mar 3, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Then for something to come out of nothing would be a miracle, magic mud!
Funny fantasy!
Actually not. It follows directly from the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Cf. quantum fluctuation. But then, I wouldn't expect you to know that.

Yes. Yes indeed. We actually do observe something coming out of nothing. Happens all the time on the quantum level.

BTW...it is a really bad idea to expect things at the quantum level or the relativistic level (really really small and really really large) to act according to "common sense". Relativity is strange. Quantum mechanics is flat-out weird. Both are non-intuitive.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#216511 Mar 3, 2014
virtuanna wrote:
<quoted text>Your idol, Harris, proposes the use of torture to gain information. Hypocrite.
Gee, it must be that untreated megalomania of his getting all inflamed and itchy. Intelligence does not preclude insanity.:)
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaaa
Nano, behave yourself. Have you gone off your meds?
virtuanna

Texarkana, TX

#216512 Mar 3, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol
Those are the words of Jon Favreau and his team, Obama just read them.
Take away Obama's teleprompter, see what you get.
That's a scary thought, dimbo without his professional speech writer.
`8^o

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#216513 Mar 3, 2014
virtuanna wrote:
<quoted text>Harris is evil and so are the idiots who idolize him.
Curious you demonize Harris. I will admit he has said some things I greatly disagree with. But most of those things, like hatred for Islam, is the same thing we hear from so many evangelicals.

Why aren't you demonizing Pat Robertson as well? He has said a lot that is just as bad, or even worse.
virtuanna

Texarkana, TX

#216514 Mar 3, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I feel bad for the pooch.
Maybe someone should kill Harris for having those thoughts....
According to Harris, the pooch was begging for it...

xD
virtuanna

Texarkana, TX

#216515 Mar 3, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Nano, behave yourself. Have you gone off your meds?
Make me!

Besides...your emperor has no clothes! arharharharhar
virtuanna

Texarkana, TX

#216516 Mar 3, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Curious you demonize Harris. I will admit he has said some things I greatly disagree with. But most of those things, like hatred for Islam, is the same thing we hear from so many evangelicals.
Why aren't you demonizing Pat Robertson as well? He has said a lot that is just as bad, or even worse.
I have no affection for Robertson...Harris, OTOH, needs outing to the mostly unaware public. He is a lesser known evil to the majority of U.S. citizens, unlike the Christian televangelists.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#216517 Mar 4, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Religion - an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence. Anyone disagree with that?
Your definition is inadequate. It doesn't mention gods or the supernatural. I like this one better. Your definition is merely the antepenultimate bullet point.

DEFINITION OF RELIGION
http://atheism.about.com/od/religiondefinitio...

• Belief in supernatural beings (gods).
• A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
• Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
• A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods.
• Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods.
• Prayer and other forms of communication with gods.
• A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.
• A more or less total organization of one’s life based on the world view.
• A social group bound together by the above.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#216518 Mar 4, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Atheist Beliefs:
1. There is no creator, the universe has either always existed, or it punched its own ticket
2. Christianity is a problem for mankind that needs to be eradicated for furtherance of the species
3. The Bible is an overly-long collection of lies and propaganda
4. Evolution and the Big Bang Theory (somehow) disprove the existence of God
One can be an atheist without believing any of those things. If you merely want to list the things that many or most atheists believe, don't forget that the dawn begins in the east and that smoking cigarettes is unhealthy.

Regarding those beliefs, none of them is entirely accurate. There are other possibilities considered besides the two listed in [1]. For example, the universe may have budded off from an eternal multiverse.

Christianity doesn't need to be eradicated, just subdued.

"Lies" is a strong word.The bible is probably better described as myths, genealogies, vague and useless predictions, chronologies of kings and ancient wars, magical claims, bad science, compromised ethics, and vapid platitudes, many of which contradict one another. The book is the lesser part of the church's "propaganda" (proselytizing), most of which is oral.

Number [4] is simply incorrect.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#216519 Mar 4, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Atheist Cultural Systems:
1. Atheist "churches," where non-believers gather to discuss...hmm, not a clue what they discuss there but I'm definitely going to check one out
2. Internet Atheism, where groups of like-minded atheists post hate rants at Christians, then rate each others' posts as "Awesome!" while rating the Christians' posts as "Shite"
Irrelevant to the argument that atheism is a religion. Some of us may want to participate in a community of atheists. I do. I also participate in a community of bridge players. We also have meeting places and Internet sites.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Atheist World Views:
1. Mankind can take care of itself
2. We live, we die, that's that
3. Christianity must be eradicated
4. Religious intolerance is the source of mankind's problems
As I already noted, none of this is essential to atheism, and holding such views doesn't constitute religious belief or make atheism a religion.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#216520 Mar 4, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Humanists have a much worse record of atrocity and crimes against humanity than Islamic Jihadists.
- In the 90 years between 1917 and 2007, humanists murdered 18.3 million percent more people than all of religion over 3,000 years.
--The historical record of killing for humanism is 182,716 times worse on an annual basis than Christianity's worst year.
--There is a 58 percent chance that a humanist leader will murder a noticeable percentage of the population over which he rules.
--Humanist crime against humanity is 18.3 million percent worse than the very worst depredation committed by Christians, even though humanists have had less than one-twentieth the number of opportunities with which to commit them.
LOL.

The Affirmations of Humanism - A Statement of Principles
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php/12

• We are committed to the application of reason and science to the understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems.

• We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation.

• We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life.

• We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities.

• We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state.

• We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.

• We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.

• We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves.

• We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity.

• We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other species.

• We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our creative talents to their fullest.

• We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.

• We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to fulfill tprophheir aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and informed health-care, and to die with dignity.

• We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.

• We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion.

• We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.

• We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still to be made in the cosmos.

• We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking.

• We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.

• We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance, joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.

• We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that we are capable of as human beings.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#216521 Mar 4, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
The "NonStampCollector" is a ruse that is offered by atheists as an analogy of atheism and its identity as a lack of belief, as in, not collecting stamps. The analogy is a lie. Someone who adopts that name is, therefore, dishonest. If theism is stamp collecting, an atheist would be one who doesn't think stamps exist, not someone who simply chooses not to participate. Thus, the lie. Thus, your friend is a liar. And it figures.
Here's my collection:

Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color.

Atheism is a religion like transparent is a color

Atheism is a religion like health is a disease state.

Atheism is a religion like death is a lifestyle.

Atheism is a religion like nonsmoking is a habit.

Atheism is a religion like fasting is a menu entree.

Atheism is a religion like unemployment is a career choice.

Atheism is a religion like nudity is a fashion style.

Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sexual position.

Atheism is a religion like off is a radio station and silence a song playing on it.

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“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#216522 Mar 4, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
The annual rate of committing homicide nationally is 5.4 per 100,000 persons.
Did you mean annual rate per capita or annual rate? Riverside Redneck, who as you know is into statistics, prefers the annual rate - numbers like 16,250 homicides per year. That's a higher annual rate than either California or Louisiana. Hell, it's higher than any 49 states and D.C. put together.

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