Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 255535 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#212543 Feb 14, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
That is newer than the information I had available.

Thanx.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#212544 Feb 14, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
You will find we are in search of the truth and follow evidence where ever it leads.
It doesn't effect me at all, as I have no horse in this race. But if anything it's a little bit exciting to find things like this, and when we do it puts an end to story and the historical truth becomes known. If this is Davids palace , then my money is going on that we will find King David the man, though legendary no more a man than other legendary men. Certainly no more legendary than Alexander and maybe even less so in reality.
Just to point out, even throwing out the legends around Alexander, such as the Gordian Knot, he still made a huge splash.

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#212545 Feb 14, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
That is newer than the information I had available.
Thanx.
There still isn't any evidence that proves it's Davids, that may surface.
The only thing for sure is it's the right time frame and the largest palace in the period.
It may turn out to be something else altogether, but it's the biggest contender to be Davids ever found.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212546 Feb 14, 2014
Divinity Surgeon wrote:
I was reading these earlier and have read a few articles on Citizens just up and leaving the christian nation of America. Do you think there's some validity to this? I have a few mates from the States who have left and live in a place filled with international tourists and new arrivals alike but like to get different opinions from those still in the US.
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/02/2014-too-...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-09/amer...
I can attest to the validity of that. I'm part of it.

From your first link:

"Consider a series of Zogby International polls conducted between 2005 to 2007. The polls focused on households, not individuals, and excluded households in which any member went abroad as a part of work for the government or a private company. Zogby found that “1.6 million U.S. households had already determined to relocate abroad; an additional 1.8 million households were seriously considering such a move, while 7.7 million more were 'somewhat seriously' contemplating it.” Zogby concluded,“If the data collected in the seven polls...are fairly representative of the current decade, then, by a modest estimate, at least 3 million U.S. citizens a year are venturing abroad." The polls were pre-Obama. If the post-Obama rate of household relocation tracks the Taxpatriate List rate, then household relocation increased more than eight-fold from 2008 to 2011. No one knows the real numbers but the “expat problem” is now too large to ignore."

You probably already know that my wife and I are among that number.

What's interesting is that the numbers include large numbers of both conservatives as liberals. I believe that Bongo and Buck have expressed interest in expatriating if feasible, but I may be mistaken, and will let them speak for themselves.

I'm part of the wave that was disgusted by the antics of the Bush administration, as were most or all of the expats I came to know when we arrived here in Mexico in mid-2009. As your link suggests, there has been a second wave of disgruntled citizens in the wake of Obama's election. This may be the only common ground these polar opposites share.

It's not for everybody. And for many, it's not a realistic option even if they would have liked to have exercised it, especially if the need to work or to be with children or parents prevent you.

But most of the people around me agree with us that it has been a good move. We enjoy better weather, a better economy (for spending, not for earning), and a slower paced life that combines the best of the past with the best of the present. That is, we have access to modern technology like good medical care, good public transportation, solar power for our homes, reliable public utilities, the Internet, ebooks, and satellite TV.

But we also have a slower, friendlier and more old-fashioned lifestyle with people mostly on foot and greeting one another as they pass, small businesses selling locally grown or manufactured products, plenty of small, outdoor bistros, and a colorful, vibrant community where horses are often used as transportation, and extended families come outside most evenings -nothing like the life we left.

What I like a lot is being part of a culture in ascension. These people are where mine were a century ago, when it was first the case that you could expect your children to be better educated than you, wealthier, more worldly, and with more opportunity. That's the world I was born into as well. Like that one, this is a world of hope and optimism.

The one we left is now one of frustration and pessimism - at least in the people of my generation (younger Americans may be more optimistic). The difference is palpable. Even our families have finally seen the wisdom of our move and have congratulated us on it. My wife's father thanked me recently for it. That's major.

Since: Dec 12

Yes, I'm an Atheist.

#212547 Feb 15, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I can attest to the validity of that. I'm part of it.

From your first link:

"Consider a series of Zogby International polls conducted between 2005 to 2007. The polls focused on households, not individuals, and excluded households in which any member went abroad as a part of work for the government or a private company. Zogby found that “1.6 million U.S. households had already determined to relocate abroad; an additional 1.8 million households were seriously considering such a move, while 7.7 million more were 'somewhat seriously' contemplating it.” Zogby concluded,“If the data collected in the seven polls...are fairly representative of the current decade, then, by a modest estimate, at least 3 million U.S. citizens a year are venturing abroad." The polls were pre-Obama. If the post-Obama rate of household relocation tracks the Taxpatriate List rate, then household relocation increased more than eight-fold from 2008 to 2011. No one knows the real numbers but the “expat problem” is now too large to ignore."

You probably already know that my wife and I are among that number.

What's interesting is that the numbers include large numbers of both conservatives as liberals. I believe that Bongo and Buck have expressed interest in expatriating if feasible, but I may be mistaken, and will let them speak for themselves.

I'm part of the wave that was disgusted by the antics of the Bush administration, as were most or all of the expats I came to know when we arrived here in Mexico in mid-2009. As your link suggests, there has been a second wave of disgruntled citizens in the wake of Obama's election. This may be the only common ground these polar opposites share.

It's not for everybody. And for many, it's not a realistic option even if they would have liked to have exercised it, especially if the need to work or to be with children or parents prevent you.

But most of the people around me agree with us that it has been a good move. We enjoy better weather, a better economy (for spending, not for earning), and a slower paced life that combines the best of the past with the best of the present. That is, we have access to modern technology like good medical care, good public transportation, solar power for our homes, reliable public utilities, the Internet, ebooks, and satellite TV.

But we also have a slower, friendlier and more old-fashioned lifestyle with people mostly on foot and greeting one another as they pass, small businesses selling locally grown or manufactured products, plenty of small, outdoor bistros, and a colorful, vibrant community where horses are often used as transportation, and extended families come outside most evenings -nothing like the life we left.

What I like a lot is being part of a culture in ascension. These people are where mine were a century ago, when it was first the case that you could expect your children to be better educated than you, wealthier, more worldly, and with more opportunity. That's the world I was born into as well. Like that one, this is a world of hope and optimism.

The one we left is now one of frustration and pessimism - at least in the people of my generation (younger Americans may be more optimistic). The difference is palpable. Even our families have finally seen the wisdom of our move and have congratulated us on it. My wife's father thanked me recently for it. That's major.
That's great, thank you Teddy.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212551 Feb 15, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
Camels were not native to Palestine. They were imported. The oldest known archeological evidence of camels in Palestine postdates their mention in the Bible...assuming the dates given in the Bible. This is an indication that the books, or at least the passages about camels, were written much later than they claim. Like you, the writers would just assume..."Oh, the camels have always been here."
According to the NOVA special you linked us to, the Torah was cobbled during the Babylonian captivity in the early 6th century BCE by the P writers, who constructed it using older writings of the J, E, and D writers, the earliest of which (J) date back to the 9th or 10th centuries BCE. This material, like the historicity of the patriarchs material, was all new to me. It's nice to get a basic foundation in these matters without having to invest a lot of effort reading what to me would be tedious and boring books, which may be why I've largely avoided investigating the topic.

So thanks again for that. And for the Questioning Darwin thing. I didn't learn much there of a factual nature, as I was already familiar with the details of Darwin's professional and personal life, and with the Creationist's reaction to it - but it did prompt some new insights, and gave me a greater appreciation for what a great man Darwin was. This quote struck me:

"Any animal whatever, endowed with well-marked social instincts, would inevitably acquire a moral sense or conscience, as soon as its intellectual powers had become as well developed ... as in man." - Charles Darwin

That's an amazing insight given how new the ideas necessary to arrive at that conclusion were when Darwin wrote that.

Now I'm wading through the AIB Atheist in the Bible Belt YouTube.

“Game Over”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#212552 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Projection
Sorry big boi. There's no money shot here.

Aim at your chin as usual.

Since: Dec 12

Yes, I'm an Atheist.

#212553 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>Projection
Polly want a cracker?

LOL

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212554 Feb 15, 2014

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#212555 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
So you will accept modern scientific theory if an expanding Universe that is slowing down, correct?
Now just how old do you claim our solar system is?

The universe isn't slowing down.
I don't claim the age of our solar system, but the consensus says it's just slightly older than Earth . Earth 4.54 Solar system 4.68 billion years.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212557 Feb 15, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
There several more pieces of evidence for King David, but the latest is they think they have found his palace or castle what ever. It isn't the existence of David that has been in question, it is the acts and importance as well as the true power of him as a King that has been in question. It is thought all of those things were greatly exaggerated and some outright fictitious. Hence King David was a minor player and had no real power in the world.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/...
OK, and thanks for that. This was addressed in the documentary I saw as well. I recall them showing a map connecting the Egyptian and Mesopotamian empires with David's Kingdom, then revising it to show that region shrinking as they reassessed and downsized their estimate of the scale of that kingdom.

You can review this beginning at about 1:09:00 at this link
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/bibles-b...

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#212558 Feb 15, 2014
scaritual wrote:

I never said, or even suggested, what you are attempting to assert I presented in the links. You asked about evidence. Which is what was supplied - 4 links - that spoke about that very thing, evidence.
For instance:

New archeological evidence is throwing cold water on the biblical image of Abraham, Jacob and Joseph riding camels through the desert.
A team of Israeli archaeologists has studied the oldest-known camel bones from this ancient period and the results are in — camels reportedly started plodding around the eastern Mediterranean region centuries after the Bible tells us they did.
After analyzing the facts from radioactive-carbon dating, Erez Ben-Yosef and Lidar Sapir-Hen of Tel Aviv University claim the domesticated animal arrived on the biblical scene near the 10th century B.C. Scholars believe Abraham lived at least six centuries before that(...)
Stories about camels in the Bible “do not encapsulate memories from the second millennium,” said Noam Mizrahi, an Israeli biblical scholar,“but should be viewed as back-projections from a much later period.”
Still, stories about the Jewish patriarchs contain more than 20 references to the domesticated camel, according to The New York Times. In Genesis 24, Abraham sends his servant to find a wife for his son Isaac. The servant traveled on his master’s camels.(...)
The research suggests that camels were introduced to the region suddenly, perhaps as Egyptians traveled along the Mediterranean trade routes.
But Bible defenders claim that even though the findings challenge the ancient text’s time line, they do not detract from the overall spiritual message.
If the biblical writers are not interested in the facts, but rather in getting a message across, then people of faith can concentrate, instead of trying to verify every last item in the Bible, on what the overall message of the story is, not whether it is historically true,” said Carol Meyers, a religion professor at Duke University."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/archaeo...

"The discovery is actually far from new. William Foxwell Albright, the leading American archeologist and biblical scholar who confirmed the authenticity of the Dead Sea Scrolls, argued in the mid-1900s that camels were an anachronism. Historian Richard Bulliet of Columbia University explored the topic in his 1975 book, The Camel and the Wheel, and concluded that “the occasional mention of camels in patriarchal narratives does not mean that the domestic camels were common in the Holy Land at that period.”
Biblical History 101 teaches that the texts themselves were often written centuries after the events they depict."
http://world.time.com/2014/02/11/the-mystery-...
That is an accurate overview of what the links presented.

Maybe you'd be better off sticking to the biblical myths, sugartits.
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
EX{ERT is just full of shi'ite. If you provide sources, he'll say you are just parroting others and dismiss what you say. If you don't provide sources, he'll complain about that and dismiss what you say.
You can't win with him because he is inherently dishonest.
Yeah, but he asks for the evidence, and in doing that, we can post the findings by scientists, researchers and - real experts - in the field or subject.

I don't expect to sway the currently named troll, "EXPERT", at all.

What it does do is allow the opportunity to supply information for anyone interested that is reading along. When you responded to my earlier post, you supplied it in full. That's two times it's been presented.

I supplied it again, above. Presented three times, now.



About the only thing he's an "expert" at is in assisting the information to be seen multiple times.

“Game Over”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#212559 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
You said you agree with modern science, but disagree that the expansion of the universe is not slowing down.
So are you taking the position it is speeding up or remains at a constant?
Do you agree that the expansion of the universe is not slowing down or do you disagree that the expansion of the universe is slowing down? At what point from the singularity did the universe start slowing down or stop expanding, approximately?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212562 Feb 15, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
I may have to sit down and watch the show again. You might notice that not one theist has commented on it, pretty clearly indicating none of them watched it.
And they won't.Why would they? It is of the world, not the church.

We and they represent are two rival traditions that vary according to whom we trust (academic sources versus the bible and church apologists), how does one learn (from studying evidence or by faith in the bible and church spokespersons), and what does one value (pursuit of knowledge of the world versus pursuit of salvation) to name a few.

The faithful are forced again and again to disregard whatever challenges their faith, whether than be the theory of evolution or the history of camelid domestication in the Middle East.

If the Abrahamic religions happen to be wrong, such a program can only lead to a severely distorted mental map of the world, one with relatively little feature drawn in, and that little bit being largely incorrect.

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#212563 Feb 15, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, and thanks for that. This was addressed in the documentary I saw as well. I recall them showing a map connecting the Egyptian and Mesopotamian empires with David's Kingdom, then revising it to show that region shrinking as they reassessed and downsized their estimate of the scale of that kingdom.
You can review this beginning at about 1:09:00 at this link
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/bibles-b...

Saw It, I've seen every one of them lol.
The one I haven't seen all of is Bible Secrets Revealed.
Part 1 is "lost in translation"
I saw it but can't see it again , or rather can't find it free to watch, but it too is a series
I want to watch. It's interesting for instance they uncover that the Jesus and the prostitute story " cast the first stone" Is a complete insertion , it wasn't in there.
There are others. Also mucho stuff has completely been changed by mistranslation.
These bible scholars say there is hardly anything that is written it , saying what was intended to be said.

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#212564 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Unlike AM, I side with the modern scientific position. How about you?

The universe is speeding up, not slowing down. It came as a shock to science when that was found out. In fact the farther away the galaxy, the faster it's moving away.

“Game Over”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#212565 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Unlike AM, I side with the modern scientific position. How about you?
So you agree that the universe is moving beyond the speed of light?

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#212566 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
You present speculation as fact, you are ignorant!
The fact that evidence for domesticated camels existed 3000bc in Babylonian and Egyptian histories proves you are the fool.
Funny thing is...it was Jewish archeologists from Israel that uncovered the fact. So they are refuting their own book and people.
Why do you suppose they would do that if it weren't true?

http://archaeology.tau.ac.il/ben-yosef/pub/Pu...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212567 Feb 15, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
That is newer than the information I had available.
Thanx.
Aura Mytha wrote:
There still isn't any evidence that proves it's Davids, that may surface. The only thing for sure is it's the right time frame and the largest palace in the period.
It may turn out to be something else altogether, but it's the biggest contender to be Davids ever found.
This is the tradition of which I am proud: the cooperative search for knowledge ( http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dia... ) wherever it may take us, where knowledge is defined as useful ideas based on reason and evidence.

This is what rational skeptics do that distinguishes us from the faith based alternative. It's nice to see us cooperating, mutually respectful, sharing quality information, and growing together. Those are the values and methods of a great tradition that is leading the world out of darkness, has borne impressive fruit, and which brings people together.

Contrast that with the divisive, tribalistic, and sterile values and methods this newer tradition is replacing.

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#212570 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, so you claim the universe is accelerating. Fine.
If this were true, knowing that currently the Earth rotates approximately every 24hrs, and the fact that you claim the earth to be over 4billion years, correct?

These aren't my claims, these are the measurements done by scientists Saul Perlmutter, and Brian P. Schmidt.

The 2011 Nobel Prize in Physics were both awarded to Saul Perlmutter, Brian P. Schmidt for discovering this in 1998.
Current estimate is Earth is 4.54 billion years old.

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