Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 253577 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

Into this world we're thrown

#210713 Feb 4, 2014
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
This is from someone whose favourite insult is "Nancy".
It's not my favorite insult and I'm not sure what one has to do with the other.

But just so your clear, My reason for calling him Nancy is not for any type of sexual reason, or to demean his sexuality.

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

Into this world we're thrown

#210714 Feb 4, 2014
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
I only know about 5-6 atheists here. Three of those are siblings, the other sibling is agnostic, but leans theist. More of a deist.
I can see the reason for your apprehension. LOL. I think i knew that many in High School. I wonder how many more in your area are atheist, but may just be as apprehensive as you to speak out, because of the numbers.

I think a big problem we have in this country is people are so quick to judge and lash out, its hard to have an honest conversation about these things. JMO.........

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#210715 Feb 4, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
My pleasure – LOL.
Actually I apologise, the majority of the readership on Topix is American and I try not to cause confusion.
Unless of course it’s deliberate…
Perhaps I should have said,‘up the duff’
Or ‘one in the oven’
Or ‘a bun in the oven’
LOL.

Speaking of multiculturalism, I wanted to ask the thread to wish me luck (or pray) for me and my teammates today. I am one of eight on a team in a charity fundraiser trivia contest.

I have a great hat collection, which I will be sharing with my teammates in about three hours. I will be wearing my Arab keffiyah, which I know how to wrap and knot. Others will be wearing a pillbox shaped, felt Moroccan tarboosh, a tall tasseled fez, or a central African kenti kufi hat. My collection also includes a Chinese coolie hat (rice bowl shaped) with a long braid, a red, green and yellow Jamaican hat with dreads, a multicolored tricorn jester's hat with bells (great for Mardi Gras), and a tall, striped velour "cat-in-the-hat" hat great for Grateful Dead concerts (presently retired).

We're defending champs, and intend to "terrorize" the room again this year. I'll report back to the thread when we I have some news.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#210716 Feb 4, 2014
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>There are some claims that are so absurd on their face that they don't merit a response. Your inference that you have never reinterpreted the bible, or that you don't at least subscribe to other people's reinterpretation of the bible, is one such claim.
Everyone that reads the Bible is reading an interpretation of it.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#210717 Feb 4, 2014
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder how the Native Americans would see it? Their languages are truly American, while English was originally foreign.
The same goes for Koori languages here.
Ya. Sure.

The Indians migrated here too, ya know.....

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210718 Feb 4, 2014
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
You're obviously a H P Lovecraft fan. Metallica had some great songs about him, too.
Never was a Metallica fan.

I do like Blue Oyster Cult. They have some songs based off of Moorecock. Moorcock even wrote some of the lyrics.

And there is Led Zeppelin, who has some songs based off of Tolkien.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210719 Feb 4, 2014
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
You're obviously a H P Lovecraft fan. Metallica had some great songs about him, too.
There are a lot of songs on YouTube that are older music but with new lyrics based on the Cthulhu mythos. "It's Beginning to Look a Lot Like Fishmen" and "If I Were a Deep One" are among my favorites.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210720 Feb 4, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
OK.
What else would you like to discuss?
<quoted text>
Yes, I was clear, wasn't I. Too bad you are not.
I still deny that I have any absolute moral principles as the term is commonly used in ethical philosophy, which is roughly the same thing as a Kantian categorical imperative..
I have no interest in going any further with this discussion not knowing what you mean by "absolute morals." You saw how mtimber wasted the time of so many people by assuming a nonstandard , meaning of the term and refusing to clarify his usage for days, only to finally reveal that he and most of the thread had been talking about different things.
I must have skipped over mtimber's clarification. How did HE define "absolute morals"?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#210721 Feb 4, 2014
Rider on the Storm wrote:
I think a big problem we have in this country is people are so quick to judge and lash out, its hard to have an honest conversation about these things. JMO.........
I agree, and it's likely in large part by design. It's an old, famous, and effective way to keep a population distracted while you're working against its interests: divide them in two and have them angrily and suspiciously pointing their fingers at one another. If you want to retool a government and rob the populace of their liberties and wealth, have them at war with each other.

Too cynical?

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210722 Feb 4, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
http://www.topix.com/forum/rel igion/atheism/TUGI0DVLLAKD7M2H N/post210615
<quoted text>
... anything you want it to.
<quoted text>
Your god orders both. Was it being immoral when it did?
True. There are several places in the OT where God orders all the men killed and the women taken as sex slaves.

In the NT, it tells slaves to obey their masters.

Nowhere does the Bible condemn slavery except to say that your male children could not be sold and that Jews could not own Jews as slaves...but could own slaves from any other country.

And I don't recall any passages condemning rape, except to say things like the rapist must pay a fine to the woman's father or that the rapist must then marry his victim.

For a God that is supposed to be the ultimate fount of morality, he seems to fall quite short of the mark.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#210723 Feb 4, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Everyone that reads the Bible is reading an interpretation of it.
And that's before they add their personal spin, and perhaps a denominational spin as well. How else can the same book be used to support the Quakers and the Klan, or Catholics and snake handling fundamentalists. They all point to (different) parts of the bible and say, "See - the bible clearly teaches yadda"

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210724 Feb 4, 2014
sweets2360 wrote:
<quoted text>
Those people seem to forget that our English language came from "GASP" ENGLAND, and not America.
Many years ago, I was playing an RPG (roe playing game) and my character was a man from Texas. His intelligence score was pretty low, so I picked his primary language as "'Murican".

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210725 Feb 4, 2014
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> Be patient my jackass. BTW im not against science. Im spending over 200k annually for my kids to learn it as part of their education. My statements in regard to wonderful science is simply that its a totally unreliable thing to use as a means to rule out deities and the power of faith. There are risks and benefits to it . Sometimes severe.
Yes, and science is totally unreliable at ruling out Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy as well.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210726 Feb 4, 2014
Oh, Jeez.

Just saw this quote by Pat Robertson excusing Biblical genocide...

"Assuming you have a culture that has 1,000 really bad people in it — they’re murderers, they’re thieves, they’re rapists, they’re having incest, you name it, they are doing everything horrible — now if they have children, what’s going to happen? Instead of having 1,000, you’ll have maybe 3,000 or 4,000; then — nothing has changed them — then they’ll pass it on to the next generation and the next thing you know you’ve got 10,000 or 20,000 of them and if it keeps on going, you’re going to have a million of them. So what’s the most merciful thing for a loving God to do? It’s to take the thousand and get rid of them. And that’s what He did."

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#210727 Feb 4, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Yes, I was clear, wasn't I. Too bad you are not.
I still deny that I have any absolute moral principles as the term is commonly used in ethical philosophy, which is roughly the same thing as a Kantian categorical imperative..
I have no interest in going any further with this discussion not knowing what you mean by "absolute morals." You saw how mtimber wasted the time of so many people by assuming a nonstandard , meaning of the term and refusing to clarify his usage for days, only to finally reveal that he and most of the thread had been talking about different things.
I'm being very clear, so are you.

"Homophobia is wrong. Atheophobia is wrong. Slavery is wrong. Rape is wrong. Terrorizing children with stories of hellfire is wrong. Premarital sex is not wrong. Birth control and condoms are not wrong."

Those are your moral absolutes.

By that, I mean that you think your ethical views are absolutely right or wrong.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210728 Feb 4, 2014
One comment on Robertson's quote...

If one can use religion to rationalize something as horrible as genocide, just think of all the other horrible things one can rationalize.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#210729 Feb 4, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:

No it doesn't. The Bible teaches ...
It aint necessarily so wrote:

... anything you want it to.
Intellectual dishonesty. You omitted the bulk of that sentence and made it seem something it's not.
RiversideRedneck wrote:

Not in any place of the Bible, NOT ONE PLACE, does it tell me or any other Christian that slavery or rape is a good thing or that it's the moral and just and Godly thing to do.
It aint necessarily so wrote:

Your god orders both. Was it being immoral when it did?


No, God doesn't order Christians to do either.

Had you paid attention to the first sentence instead of omitting it, you'd already know that.
RiversideRedneck wrote:

Nowhere does the Bible teach Christians intolerance.
It aint necessarily so wrote:

Do I need to repost all of the atheophobic scriptures for you again?


No. Keep your made-up words to yourself.
It aint necessarily so wrote:

I know about that love. Let me share part of a post to my local freethinkers group
==========
Thanks, Hank.
A couple of thoughts:
[1] The article you cited reports, "Political justice, said Rousseau, depends on an understanding that state power belongs to the people, exists to serve the common good. What is this vision? Where does it come from? It is motivated by a moral idealism rooted in Judeo-Christian tradition (social justice, concern for the poor, hostility to luxury, the equal worth of all human lives)"
If by moral idealism the author means the most benign statements of Jesus according to the gospels, then yes. Christianity gives lip service to those. But for me, an American living since the mid 1950's, the values I have seen actually embodied by the Christian church are nothing like those described above.
[edited for space]
There seems to be no more than lip service given to the Golden Rule, which more closely informs the rational ethics of humanism (reason applied to compassion) than Christianity.
"Love one another," sure, but what is love in Christianity? It involves such things as crucifixion (blood sacrifice and substitutional atonement), the infantile love of a wholly dependent man for a god based on his desperate hope to be spared torture, and the love of a narcissistic god for man that resembles a dysfunctional relationship ("Don't force me to hurt you!"), and which requires denial of the value of self, continual praise and worship, and passing tests of faith.
Sorry, but I don't see the gentle Jesus of the New Testament anywhere in there.
I get it. You & Hank don't like Christians.

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#210730 Feb 4, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
True. There are several places in the OT where God orders all the men killed and the women taken as sex slaves.
In the NT, it tells slaves to obey their masters.
Nowhere does the Bible condemn slavery except to say that your male children could not be sold and that Jews could not own Jews as slaves...but could own slaves from any other country.
And I don't recall any passages condemning rape, except to say things like the rapist must pay a fine to the woman's father or that the rapist must then marry his victim.
For a God that is supposed to be the ultimate fount of morality, he seems to fall quite short of the mark.
It doesn't say a Jew cannot enslave another Jew.
It say's a Jew must free another Jew , after seven years and if he was
married before he was enslaved . He must free his wife also, but if he was married while enslaved . He doesn't have to free his wife, but can offer him to remain enslaved to be with her. If the man agrees to that, he is to remain a slave for the rest of his life.

This has been criticized more than just being enslaved, because it uses the mans woman to gain leverage over him, and is considered cruel, at lest that's the protests I've heard.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#210731 Feb 4, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
You said you know of no other definition for "father" other than the kinds that involves sperm or rearing
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Wrong. Don't paraphrase me if you can't be accurate.
Not wrong.

You said;

"Can you find any definition in any dictionary that would allow us to properly call someone who neither provided the sperm nor help raise a child its father?"

http://m.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/TUG...

I subsequently gave you 14 alternative definitions.

You didn't like it and now try to pretend it didn't happen.

That's not very honest of you.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#210732 Feb 4, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL. I have likened teaching Riverside Redneck to rolling a mossy boulder up an icy hill into a headwind during a mudslide. It would be easier to teach a chicken to peck at a toy piano for corn kernels. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =BbM4dWQ5dJsXX
Cute. I've likened debating with you to pushing a broken down car with a rope.

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