Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 243425 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210174 Feb 2, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
We can put that to good use in exactly the way that you and many others have already done. Had you known before your Topix experience how many were this extremely affected? I hadn't, and I don't suppose too many other people did either. Some of us have been arguing that faith acts like a damaging mental illness. The worst of these people are as far removed from our common reality as a psychotic with the prognosis for recovery is nearly zero, and they are not scarce.
Sure that's offensive to Christians. But if is true, with so much at stake, the possibility of being offensive can't be allowed to be an obstacle to making the case.
So many of these people have the worldview that the truth is what they wish it to be. They wouldn't put it that way, but it is the way it works out.

They find us offensive (and we realize that), but don't seem to have a clue as to how offensive we find them.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210175 Feb 2, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>It's not solely an Atheistic view, it's a view taken by the greater percentage of humans regardless of their society. Words like compassion, caring, wellbeing, empathy, all seem to elude you, why is that?
This has been explained to you ad nauseam, are you really that stupid? I'll explain no more, you're a very ignorant person, and I suspect you just might be a poe. No one could be this thick, well maybe a delusional Christian, brainwashed and hung out to dry.
"Don't harm others" is an axiom upon which further ideas are developed.

What mtimber doesn't realize, and probably doesn't even know, is that axioms are agreed upon, but are never proved. They are at the very base of the tower of logic. There is nothing to prove them with.

Apparently mtimber doesn't think "don't harm others" is a good starting point for morality. This is why I consider him to be morally bankrupt.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210176 Feb 2, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Correct, and so does the guy next door, and the guy down the street, and the people I work with, and the guy who owns the pizza shop, and my mechanic, and..........pretty soon we have more than just ME. Shocking that you don't understand how reality works, thought not all that shocking considering you"re a Christian.
Putting mtimber in the broad category of Christian is an insult to most Christians. He belongs to that odious subset of Christianity known as fundamentalism.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#210177 Feb 2, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I've never believed in YEC, it isn't Biblcal. It doesn't even make sense. No one has taught me that, unless you want to call the Bible a person...
You may be able to make a 24-hour day argument for "day" one and two, but definitely not for day three.
Genesis 1:11 "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit after their kind, with seed in them, on the earth".
Genesis 1:12; And the earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good.
Notice in both texts, it says "the earth" brought forth and sprouted the vegetation. It is very clear that the plants sprout and grow to maturity AND produce seed. There are no plants capable of doing that within a 24-hour period of time.
That refutes any argument an atheist or YECer can have about a 24 hour day.
Day six is also a problem for the YECers. In Genesis 1:24, God says "Let the earth bring forth living creatures [nephesh] after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind". Again we have the earth bringing forth living creatures, clearly something that takes longer than 24 hours.
Also on day six, God plants the Garden of Eden and Adam is created and names all the animals of the Earth. The Garden sprouting and Adam naming all the animals would also take more than 24 hours.
I expect backlash from both Topix Atheists! and my fellow Christians about this....
It's the religious book of the Jews, they think it means a literal 7 days.

Christians really like trying to tweak and massage the passages of the mythic OT to fit what they want it to mean, and especially so since modern science has blown many of the claims made in the "deity inspired holy tomes" out of the water.

Until about 250 years ago, all Abrahamic faiths accepted the flood, the seven day creation etc..., as definitely real. Christians, too.

Now it's splintered into all sorts of bizarre interpretations and wild explanations in an attempt to salvage the belief as Christianity and others try to adjust to what they know can't be, but really want it to be.




It reminds me of a kid denying it's gonna rain when the rain drops are hitting the windows because he really wanted to ride his new bike.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210178 Feb 2, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Clearly it doesn't. It's the other way around. Notice the dates;
[1] "Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself." – Confucius (c. 551–479 BCE)
[2] "Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss." – Lao Tzu
[3] "Do to the doer to cause that he do thus to you." - Ancient Egyptian concept of Maat(c. 2040–1650 BCE):
[4] "Avoid doing what you would blame others for doing." – Thales (c. 624 BC – c. 546 BCE)
[5] "Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful." - Siddhartha Gautama,(c. 563-483 BCE)
Jesus appears not to have had any any good, original ideas about moral behavior. Can you offer a counterexample?
You are assuming Eagle knows what a counterexample is.

That might be one of those "ass of you and me" type of assumptions.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210179 Feb 2, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
It can't.
mtimber's view of evolution is extremely simplistic and quite wrong. For example, rabbits don't evolve my killing, but by surviving.

In fact, that is the whole idea behind natural selection. The survivor's genes pass on to the next generation. It is nature (happenstance) that does the killing, whether by predator or accident.

This is not to say that some species have evolved a behavior of killing rivals from their own species. But most species haven't. Very few in fact have. The fact that so many species haven't evolved a "kill or be killed" behavior puts the lie to mtimber's ideas of evolution.

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#210180 Feb 2, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
"Don't harm others" is an axiom upon which further ideas are developed.
What mtimber doesn't realize, and probably doesn't even know, is that axioms are agreed upon, but are never proved. They are at the very base of the tower of logic. There is nothing to prove them with.
Apparently mtimber doesn't think "don't harm others" is a good starting point for morality. This is why I consider him to be morally bankrupt.
The golden rule or a variation of it , has been written by philosophers in every society.... since the advent of writing.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#210181 Feb 2, 2014
scaritual wrote:
It's the religious book of the Jews, they think it means a literal 7 days.
Some do.

Not all.
Christians really like trying to tweak and massage the passages of the mythic OT to fit what they want it to mean, and especially so since modern science has blown many of the claims made in the "deity inspired holy tomes" out of the water.
Wrong. The notion that the days in Genesis weren't 24 hour periods of time has been around a long, long time.

It's nothing new.
Until about 250 years ago, all Abrahamic faiths accepted the flood, the seven day creation etc..., as definitely real. Christians, too.
Wrong.

You're speculating and stereotyping.
Now it's splintered into all sorts of bizarre interpretations and wild explanations in an attempt to salvage the belief as Christianity and others try to adjust to what they know can't be, but really want it to be.
Wrong.

It's translated as either 24 hour periods of time or not 24 hour periods of time.

What "all sorts" are you referring?
It reminds me of a kid denying it's gonna rain when the rain drops are hitting the windows because he really wanted to ride his new bike.
mmm-hmmm...
EXPERT

Redding, CA

#210182 Feb 2, 2014
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>It's the religious book of the Jews, they think it means a literal 7 days.

Christians really like trying to tweak and massage the passages of the mythic OT to fit what they want it to mean, and especially so since modern science has blown many of the claims made in the "deity inspired holy tomes" out of the water.

Until about 250 years ago, all Abrahamic faiths accepted the flood, the seven day creation etc..., as definitely real. Christians, too.

Now it's splintered into all sorts of bizarre interpretations and wild explanations in an attempt to salvage the belief as Christianity and others try to adjust to what they know can't be, but really want it to be.




It reminds me of a kid denying it's gonna rain when the rain drops are hitting the windows because he really wanted to ride his new bike.
I see you are still ignorant on this topic.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210183 Feb 2, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll still interact with them, although I'll probably give mtimber one sentence answers to most of his questions on morality from here out.
EXPERT has said nothing of substance to anybody, so there is little to say back. Neither of those two can be taken seriously any more. Likewise with Dave Nelson.
Lightbeamrider and Bongo have been pretty civil, and I will treat them in kind. So have Buck and Skombolis.
Riverside Redneck seems to have recovered from his snit, but he's as unteachable as mtimber, so expansive answers are pointless unless I'm discussing a new topic, in which case such answers will be written to the entire thread until the topic has been explored, and then reduced to the same very short responses that mtimber has earned.
lbr is civil for the most part.

Buck hasn't been civil toward me for a very long time. And I have given up trying to be civil toward him. He seems so obsessed with contradicting me that he will often spout utter nonsense and then rant "supporting" that nonsense.

Bongo strikes me as being a Buck-wannabe. He uses the same sort of vile nicknames for me as Buck does. And Bongo keeps saying that Buck has completely refuted me in every case...which is just nonsense. Bongo has proved to me he is not worthy of a response.

RR kinda goes back and forth. Civil most of the time. But he seems incapable of a reasoned response. That can also be said of lbr, Bongo, mtimber and oh so many others.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210184 Feb 2, 2014
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus and Bongo. I think I saw that movie.
I love Art Carney.
Jesus and Bongo sitting in a tree
Kay Eye Ess Ess Eye En Gee

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210185 Feb 2, 2014
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
It's the religious book of the Jews, they think it means a literal 7 days.
Christians really like trying to tweak and massage the passages of the mythic OT to fit what they want it to mean, and especially so since modern science has blown many of the claims made in the "deity inspired holy tomes" out of the water.
Until about 250 years ago, all Abrahamic faiths accepted the flood, the seven day creation etc..., as definitely real. Christians, too.
Now it's splintered into all sorts of bizarre interpretations and wild explanations in an attempt to salvage the belief as Christianity and others try to adjust to what they know can't be, but really want it to be.
It reminds me of a kid denying it's gonna rain when the rain drops are hitting the windows because he really wanted to ride his new bike.
So do a large number of Christians. Ken Ham, for one. There are many that claim the Bible as literal truth, and when Genesis says "day" it means 24 hours.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210186 Feb 2, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> The golden rule or a variation of it , has been written by philosophers in every society.... since the advent of writing.
Agreed. Many Christians try to claim it as their own, but IANS did a good job of showing it is an idea far older that Christianity.

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#210187 Feb 2, 2014
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Toasting selfishness?
.. sure I'm selfish. Isn't everyone ??..

.. after a weekend of Major debauchery including wanton sex with scarves, I see you're still insisting objective morals must come from a supernatural source ..

.. you're a disgrace to the memory of Caligula ..
Anon

Lakewood, OH

#210188 Feb 2, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I've never believed in YEC, it isn't Biblcal. It doesn't even make sense. No one has taught me that, unless you want to call the Bible a person...
You may be able to make a 24-hour day argument for "day" one and two, but definitely not for day three.
Genesis 1:11 "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit after their kind, with seed in them, on the earth".
Genesis 1:12; And the earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good.
Notice in both texts, it says "the earth" brought forth and sprouted the vegetation. It is very clear that the plants sprout and grow to maturity AND produce seed. There are no plants capable of doing that within a 24-hour period of time.
That refutes any argument an atheist or YECer can have about a 24 hour day.
Day six is also a problem for the YECers. In Genesis 1:24, God says "Let the earth bring forth living creatures [nephesh] after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind". Again we have the earth bringing forth living creatures, clearly something that takes longer than 24 hours.
Also on day six, God plants the Garden of Eden and Adam is created and names all the animals of the Earth. The Garden sprouting and Adam naming all the animals would also take more than 24 hours.
I expect backlash from both Topix Atheists! and my fellow Christians about this....
"Don't bother me today, Eve. God said I have to name all these animals. Phew, this is gonna be a bitch. Well, I gotta start somewhere. Let's see, I'll call this one a moo cow, this one a horsey, yeah, I like that. There's a moo cow with horns, which I'm totally not getting. This one said oink, so naturally it's an oinker, although I'm really tempted to call it a piggy. Think I'll name this one a potato. This one I'll call a serpent - man, I'm getting a bad vibe off that thing. Geez, this is gonna take forever. Thank god there's 8,765,812.77 hours in a day, cuz I'll need every one of 'em. Hey Eve, did god create sammiches yet? If so, could you make me one? Cut the crust off, please."
EXPERT

Redding, CA

#210189 Feb 2, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>So do a large number of Christians. Ken Ham, for one. There are many that claim the Bible as literal truth, and when Genesis says "day" it means 24 hours.
You seem to present an argument from the point of view that Genesis is the only reference to creation. You are aware there are more books other than Genesis that reference creation, right?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#210190 Feb 2, 2014
scaritual wrote:
Until about 250 years ago, all Abrahamic faiths accepted the flood, the seven day creation etc..., as definitely real. Christians, too.
News flash!

The first century wasn't 250 years ago.

“It is quite foolish to think that the world was created in the space of six days or in a space of time at all.”

-Philo,'On Allegory'

From the first century...

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#210191 Feb 2, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
...
God said: "Let the earth sprout vegetation..."
"Let the earth do it..."
"Let nature run it's course..."
A difficult concept for you, perhaps.
Where exactly do you insert your creator deity in the process?

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#210192 Feb 2, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to present an argument from the point of view that Genesis is the only reference to creation. You are aware there are more books other than Genesis that reference creation, right?
Yea ah , I like the Japanese creation story. It's a big hit up in Hobbiton.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#210193 Feb 2, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
It shatters your whole notion of the evil stupid Christian.
Nonsense.

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