Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258452 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#209944 Feb 1, 2014
mtimber wrote:
Such lofty claims, yet the very fact you appeal to absolute moral positions whilst denying they exist reveals the truth of your claims...
Your perseveration and your inability to learn simple concepts presented in plain English demonstrate the extent of your faith-induced psychopathology. You don't belong in philosophical discussions. You have nothing to offer, and are incapable of profiting from others. You just repeat yourself.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#209945 Feb 1, 2014
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Try the 10 Commandments.
That God revealed in person.
Which is also displayed as a living reality in the life of Jesus Christ.
Your totally worthless 10 Commandments, the first three which deal ONLY with your God sense of vanity.

Honoring anyone is the result of trust and respect, it's not something automatic.......worthless

5.) Is certainly a good one, though I don't need a commandment to tell me raping and killing my neighbors daughter is wrong......worthless, same with stealing and lying, especially if it causes harm.

Notice what are not listed in the 10 Commandments. Instead of commandments dealing with your self inflated egotistical God, the first three, how about replacing those with rules against Rape, child abuse, and unnecessary cruelty.

Never thinking of children your god, he prefers to murder them, what a prick!!!

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#209946 Feb 1, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
We can extrapolate a basic idea of when Adam existed, based on genealogy reports in the Bible.
We cannot use the Bible to estimate the age of the earth. There is no telling how much time passed between Genesis 1:1 and the creation of Adam.
If you even believe the time based on the genealogy figures, you're just plain numb from the neck up.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#209947 Feb 1, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
If by "God" you mean the character in the Christian bible, then yes, one measure of its imperfection is its morality.
That assumes Biblical God is subject to the same morality imposed on His creation. Does an artist have a right to destroy his paintings? Is a judge committing murder when a person is sentenced to death? Again you are selective in your facts. Canaanites, for example, were provided 400+ years to turn things around and did not. That was a grace period.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#209948 Feb 1, 2014
mtimber wrote:
You asked for 5, I pointed you to 10. I am not sure why you would consider that a failure? If you want to be pedantic, take the first 5 commandments.
He also asked you to define absolute moral standard which you refused to do.

You then gave commandments that are highly subjective in their interpretation as examples of absolute moral values, so we are forced to guess what you consider absolute and how those exemplify the concept.

When is the sabbath and how does one keep it holy? There seem to be multiple answers to this.

What constitutes a graven image or taking your god's name in vain. Is a crucifix around the neck an exception? Is praying to your god to cause your team to win the Superbowl taking its name in vain? There are also any number of interpretations of this "absolute" moral standard as well.

What does it mean to honor your parents? Does it mean to obey them? Praise them? Absolute means that if they say to kill yourself, you must honor that request without reservation and without exception.

Didn't Jesus make several of the "absolute" moral standards of the Old Testament obsolete? That makes them relative.

Your claim that these ideas are absolute moral standards in any sense of the word "absolute" is nonsense.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#209949 Feb 1, 2014
mtimber wrote:
Do you believe it is absolutely morally wrong to lie?
As an atheist you cannot claim that position.
Therefore your testimony is refuted on that alone.
Also, God has made it clear that you do know and He cannot lie.
So I reject your claim on both grounds.
1. You cannot be trusted to tell the truth.
2. God can be trusted.
The promises attributed to your god than can be tested have never been kept.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#209950 Feb 1, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
"I'm awesome and I know it."
-The Scar
<Ar Ar> "....I really wish I was someone I'm not"

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#209951 Feb 1, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
"Free of supernaturalism, it [humanism] recognizes human beings as a part of nature and holds that values-be they religious, ethical, social, or political-have their source in human experience and culture." americanhumanist.org

What do you suppose humanists feel are the values of religion?
It aint necessarily so wrote:
That varies with the religion and probably the humanist as well. It seems to me that the chief concern of each Christian is his own salvation, which he hopes to obtain through worship, submission, and proclaiming and promoting Christianity.
That's a very logical and precise way to look at it.

I think Christianity would thrive better if Christians actually did that, instead of trying to force Christianity down people's throats.

What would you say is the "chief concern" of the Humanist?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#209952 Feb 1, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<
We can extrapolate a basic idea of when Adam existed, based on genealogy reports in the Bible.
We cannot use the Bible to estimate the age of the earth. There is no telling how much time passed between Genesis 1:1 and the creation of Adam.
Aura Mytha wrote:
If you even believe the time based on the genealogy figures, you're just plain numb from the neck up.
hey, you know what? Fuckyou.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#209953 Feb 1, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Toasting humanity and its boundless desire to know and experience the goodness in this life. But that's not for you. You have been spiritually castrated. Your sense of self has been ablated. You no longer belong to yourself, and you resent those of us that won't followed. It's why we understand ethics and the conscience, for example, but you are confounded by it. If there is a such a thing as a sin against the self, you have committed it.
mtimber wrote:
You keep making these grandiose claims. Why don't you actually support them with an actual argument?
You and your posting behavior are my evidence and argument..
mtimber wrote:
Please explain how your ethics can operate without an absolute moral standard to appeal to.
It's already been explained to you in plain English by several posters. We've told you what process we appeal to, and the standards that such a method generates are relative. If you don't understand yet, you never will. It's simply not for you to understand. How many more times are you going to repeat yorurself? And at what point would you agree that it is appropriate to disregard or mock you?
mtimber wrote:
Let's see some substance to your pomp...
That's obscene coming from the guy who offers a faith based claim that Jesus is a god as his refutation to the claim that you can't refute the atheist position without producing a god.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#209954 Feb 1, 2014
scaritual wrote:
<Ar Ar> "....I really wish I was someone I'm not"
Superman....
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#209955 Feb 1, 2014
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Number one why should harm be the most important moral standard what measurement are you using to come to this conclusion?
You're making claims about absolute moral standards whilst denying you are making that claim and giving no basis for your claim.
You argue that morality is a consensus, which creates an interesting predicament for you.
Is there was a consensus that Christian morality was the true morality would you accept that consensus?
If morality is something you vote on, then if you had lived in Germany during the persecution of the Jewish people, during the Second World War, you would be morally obligated to persecute those Jews do you understand your own argument?
My action affect others, we don't live in a vacuum. I would prefer not to live in a society were doing harm to others means nothing. As the golden rules infers, I don't want to do to something to someone, that I don't want done to me. I know the pain anguish I would feel if someone raped and tortured my daughter so I don't want that for someone else, its called COMPASSION, ever hear of it?

In your snake like way, you are attempting to throw a huge blanket over morality. Something that is ingrained in most of us, the compassion we feel towards others, this caring, is instinctive in most of us, it does't need to be placed under the banner of Christian morality, rather under the banner of humanity.

Christian morality is based on myths and magic, its main tenant is that this morality was given to us by a fictitious being, a being by the way, who's personal morality is worse than most humans. So no, I would never accept my morals from non-existent beings, especially one so obviously immoral.

Don't be stupid, holy shit, what a ridiculous argument. During the Viet Nam War ad great many people strongly disagreed with the morality of the war. My personal morality is what guides me, and YOU stupid, just because my government, as in Nazi Germany, persecuted the Jews, my morality would never allow me to harm anyone.

I have never seen such ridiculous arguments, you think the morality of a government turns everyone into autobots who blindly follow the moral dictates of the government?.....REALLY!!!

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#209956 Feb 1, 2014
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>In the beginning God...
That's what men wrote that it said.

You choose to believe them without evidence.

What did it tell YOU.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#209957 Feb 1, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Trust based on evidence from the naturalistic realm is a far cry from faith in things from the supernatural realm, a non-existent realm. It is shocking that you can't see the difference. Trust is something earned, Faith is gullibility.
Then you are gullible, you have faith in abiogenesis...

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#209958 Feb 1, 2014
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>Why is contentment a goal in life?

You are just a chemical fizz in a hostile universe, waiting to fizz out.

A minuscule mote in an uncaring and empty universe.

Tell me how that gives you meaning?
It gives me peace.

I don't feel the need to have meaning.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#209959 Feb 1, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>And you consider the writings of an immoral ancient book that describes an unknown entity blowing on a handful of dirt as evidence for the creation on man? Sounds really stupid when you put it into words doesn't it!!

The certain "types" of acids you speak of, are Amino Acids, the building blocks for life. Considering that every living thing on the face of the planet relies on Amino Acids, I say this was a very important discovery, and a very clear indication that life from non-living matter is scientifically plausible.

Given the fact that the only evidence there is for the creation of life is abiogenesis, then these experiments certainly lead to that logical conclusion. Here:

1.) Life began because an entity, for which there is no demonstrable evidence, blew on a handful of dirt.

2.) Life began by purely naturalistic means, given the fact that all of the ingredients for life where at one time present.

3.) The most abundant elements in the universe are the same element present in our own bodies, Hydrogen----Helium---Oxygen--- Nitrogen....and Carbon.

We are made for the same "stuff"as stars. Given this fact then life should be abundant in the cosmos. We are not special, life is the inevitable consequence of complex chemistry.
An immoral book, you are no longer an atheist I see.

Are there any real atheists in this thread?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#209960 Feb 1, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>If by "God" you mean the character in the Christian bible, then yes, one measure of its imperfection is its morality. Another is in its description in self-contradictory terms. Another is the book it is said to have authored, which is filled with stories of its mistakes and failures.

mtimber wrote, " As these fig leaves are subjective at best, how can you use them as an absolute standard?"

I'll let you guess what my answer to that is. I'll bet you have no idea.

mtimber wrote, " To make a moral judgement requires an absolute standard upon which to make that judgement."

You're wrong. I use evolving standards, although some may be in their final form or near final form. And they are relative to one another. Although honesty is a virtue, lying can be the more moral choice in some circumstances.
By what standard do you use to check your morality is evolving?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#209961 Feb 1, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>Your perseveration and your inability to learn simple concepts presented in plain English demonstrate the extent of your faith-induced psychopathology. You don't belong in philosophical discussions. You have nothing to offer, and are incapable of profiting from others. You just repeat yourself.
Another diatribe.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#209962 Feb 1, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Your totally worthless 10 Commandments, the first three which deal ONLY with your God sense of vanity.

Honoring anyone is the result of trust and respect, it's not something automatic.......worthless

5.) Is certainly a good one, though I don't need a commandment to tell me raping and killing my neighbors daughter is wrong......worthless, same with stealing and lying, especially if it causes harm.

Notice what are not listed in the 10 Commandments. Instead of commandments dealing with your self inflated egotistical God, the first three, how about replacing those with rules against Rape, child abuse, and unnecessary cruelty.

Never thinking of children your god, he prefers to murder them, what a prick!!!
No longer an atheist?

Making absolute moral claims again?

Why are you pretending you are an atheist still, you cannot be consistent with your own worldview.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#209963 Feb 1, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text>That assumes Biblical God is subject to the same morality imposed on His creation. Does an artist have a right to destroy his paintings? Is a judge committing murder when a person is sentenced to death? Again you are selective in your facts. Canaanites, for example, were provided 400+ years to turn things around and did not. That was a grace period.
They are arguing that moral judgement is wrong...

With a moral judgement....

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