Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision

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Thousands of abortion opponents marched from the National Mall to the Supreme Court on Tuesday in their annual remembrance of the court's Roe v. Wade decision. Read more

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#312369 Sep 30, 2013
Some same-sex marriages have church weddings, some don't--just like hetero marriages. All we are discussing is CIVIL marriage--what happens in churches is up to the sect and the couple.

There are christian sects that DO marry gay couples. Maybe they know something you don't.
Husker Du wrote:
<quoted text>A same sex marriage doesn't have God .
grumpy

Pomona, NY

#312370 Sep 30, 2013
John-K wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not...?
Because it's written in the Bible that homosexuality is wrong?
Those passages were taken from the Old Testament, and it wasn't until the so-called "Letters of Paul" that they made their way into the New Testament. Jesus himself--according to the Gospels--never spoke of the "rightness," or "wrongness" of homosexuality.
His basic message was;
"Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.
Love your neighbor as you'd love yourself.
Those are grumpy's messages!
Do unto others etc. is for your favorite masochist.
Love your neighbor etc. is for your neighbor who enjoys masturbating.
Ink

Wynnewood, PA

#312371 Sep 30, 2013
John-K wrote:
<quoted text>
I read the article, but I'm not sure I fully got its meaning--he was excommunicated because of his position regarding the ordination of women rather than his position on gay marriage?
I think we're at something of a crossroads here my friend.
Gay people don't want to change the definition of marriage, they simply want the same rights and privileges as every other couple who wants to get married with regards to our current legal system.
I'm afraid I have to disagree with your assertion that;
"He represents the Church and obviously can't do that adequetely."
The "Church" has been notorious for "dragging its heels" when it comes to "getting with the times."
How long, exactly, did it take for them to accept Galileo's "Helio-centric theory?"
I completely "get" that the Church will never condone abortion, but to offhandedly state that "contraception" is a "mortal sin" is utterly nonsensical IMHO.
Whenever I hear/read something of that sort, I feel a need to watch the skit from Monty Python's "The Meaning Of Life," "Every Sperm Is Sacred..."
Color me "Jaded..."
He was excommunicated for many reasons mostly publically advocting a stance abjectly different from the Church. It's like the CEO of Verizon placing ads for people to sign up with Comcast. That CEO might as well get a job with Comcast.

I believe that civil unions afford those rights. I believe they will not be satisfied until marriage means between any consenting adults.

We well just have to see where 'getting with the times' takes us. I don't think the Church wants to go there.
BTW the Church has acknowledged that their condemnation of Galileo was wrong but I ask you how many people believed his theory in the 1600's?
The Jesuits are famous for their studies of astronomy and have some of the most sophisticaed equipment.

And finally, were is it written that using contrception is a mortal sin? I am not aware of that. In fact I have always understood that policies of the Church are just that policies but we all have a conscience and are expected to use it in our lives.
Ink

Wynnewood, PA

#312372 Sep 30, 2013
cpeter1313 wrote:
We aren't changing the definition of marriage; we are changing access. Legally speaking, there is no difference at all between a same-sex marriage and an opposite-sex one.
All the rights we WANT? I'm an american citizen I demand all the rights other citizens have--like the constitution demands.
Civil unions? Not recognized by other states or the federal government. Rarely hold up in court. And totally unnecessary since we already HAVE a legal contract to protect a committed couples' rights and enforce their responsibilities. We didn't create a "separate but equal" form of marriage for interracial couples; there's no reason to have one for gays.
<quoted text>
noun: marriage;&#8195;

1.

the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.

You do want to change the definition of marriage and I believe you should have all your rights.
Ink

Wynnewood, PA

#312373 Sep 30, 2013
John-K wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not...?
Because it's written in the Bible that homosexuality is wrong?
Those passages were taken from the Old Testament, and it wasn't until the so-called "Letters of Paul" that they made their way into the New Testament. Jesus himself--according to the Gospels--never spoke of the "rightness," or "wrongness" of homosexuality.
His basic message was;
"Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.
Love your neighbor as you'd love yourself."
I think there may be something missing here.

Jesus preached that the Jews should follow the teachings of the prophets. He wasn't there to change the religion. He said He had come to fullfill the prophecies. That was His message. When asked what the greatest commandment was he answered''Love God with your whole heart, mind and soul and love your neighbor as yourself.'

The Golden Rule that you are talking about is in the very beginnings of many religions.

You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against your kinsfolk. Love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.

—Leviticus 19:18[10], the "Great Commandment"

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#312374 Sep 30, 2013
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
noun: marriage;&#8195;
1.
the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.
You do want to change the definition of marriage and I believe you should have all your rights.
Marriage has never had just one meaning, and the fact that you didn't bother to give a link, or copy more than the first of several definitions from your source merely shows a basic dishonesty on your part.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/marria...

mar·riage
[mar-ij] Show IPA

noun
1.
a legally, religiously, or socially sanctioned union of persons who commit to one another, forming a familial and economic bond: Anthropologists say that some type of marriage has been found in every society, past and present.

2.

a.
the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.

b.
a similar institution involving partners of the same gender, as in gay marriage; same-sex marriage .

3.
the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: They have a happy marriage. Synonyms: matrimony. Antonyms: single life, bachelorhood, spinsterhood, singleness.

4.
the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of two people to live as a married couple, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage. Synonyms: nuptials, marriage ceremony, wedding. Antonyms: divorce, annulment.

5.
a relationship in which two people have pledged themselves to each other in the manner of a husband and wife, without legal sanction: trial marriage.

You are wrong.
Ink

Wynnewood, PA

#312375 Sep 30, 2013
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Marriage has never had just one meaning, and the fact that you didn't bother to give a link, or copy more than the first of several definitions from your source merely shows a basic dishonesty on your part.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/marria...
mar·riage
[mar-ij] Show IPA
noun
1.
a legally, religiously, or socially sanctioned union of persons who commit to one another, forming a familial and economic bond: Anthropologists say that some type of marriage has been found in every society, past and present.
2.
a.
the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.
b.
a similar institution involving partners of the same gender, as in gay marriage; same-sex marriage .
3.
the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: They have a happy marriage. Synonyms: matrimony. Antonyms: single life, bachelorhood, spinsterhood, singleness.
4.
the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of two people to live as a married couple, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage. Synonyms: nuptials, marriage ceremony, wedding. Antonyms: divorce, annulment.
5.
a relationship in which two people have pledged themselves to each other in the manner of a husband and wife, without legal sanction: trial marriage.
You are wrong.
The use of same gender is relatively new to suit the American thought process.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#312376 Sep 30, 2013
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
The use of same gender is relatively new to suit the American thought process.
But not to the word at large, or the concept, which was my point.

"THE" definition cannot be changed, as there has never BEEN just one definition for the word, and words change meanings all the time anyway. That's how language evolves.

No one is trying to change the meaning, just allow access equally to all consenting adults. And there is nothing wrong with that. It will not affect anyone else's marriage one whit.
Ink

Wynnewood, PA

#312377 Sep 30, 2013
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
But not to the word at large, or the concept, which was my point.
"THE" definition cannot be changed, as there has never BEEN just one definition for the word, and words change meanings all the time anyway. That's how language evolves.
No one is trying to change the meaning, just allow access equally to all consenting adults. And there is nothing wrong with that. It will not affect anyone else's marriage one whit.
What is the problem with civil union which guarantees all rights that a married couple has?

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#312378 Sep 30, 2013
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the problem with civil union which guarantees all rights that a married couple has?
The don't. THAT is the problem.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#312379 Sep 30, 2013
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the problem with civil union which guarantees all rights that a married couple has?
Sorry, that should have been "TheY don't." The Y key stuck and I didn't notice before submitting.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#312380 Sep 30, 2013
Katie

Kent, WA

#312381 Sep 30, 2013
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
noun: marriage;&#8195;
1.
the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.
You do want to change the definition of marriage and I believe you should have all your rights.
You didn't copy and paste the entire definition of Marriage, Ink. I especially like this, "The marriage of science and art." It can all be found at this link, including this little ditty:

"Origin of MARRIAGE

Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry
First Known Use: 14th century"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mar...

“Dan IS the Man”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#312382 Sep 30, 2013
Husker Du wrote:
<quoted text>A same sex marriage doesn't have God .
So?
Forum

Carlsbad, NM

#312383 Sep 30, 2013
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought you were talking about gays being killed at someone else's whim. I say everybody can be killed at someone else's whim. That means everybody including unborn children in their fetus stage.
James 5:20

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation:
for, when he hath been proved, he shall receive
the crown of life which God hath promised to them
that love him.

“Dan IS the Man”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#312384 Sep 30, 2013
Forum wrote:
<quoted text>
James 5:20
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation:
for, when he hath been proved, he shall receive
the crown of life which God hath promised to them
that love him.
Translation: God gets off on making the little mortal beings jump through hoops.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#312385 Sep 30, 2013
Katie wrote:
<quoted text>
You didn't copy and paste the entire definition of Marriage, Ink. I especially like this, "The marriage of science and art." It can all be found at this link, including this little ditty:
"Origin of MARRIAGE
Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry
First Known Use: 14th century"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mar...
Dishonest thing, isn't she?

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#312388 Sep 30, 2013
Husker Du wrote:
<quoted text>So, your hubby is really a woman? Actually he does look like one...mullet and all.
AND you've lied again. Twice.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#312390 Sep 30, 2013
Husker Du wrote:
<quoted text>You are frustrated! Did I hit a nerve? yep! Do you have matching mullets? I bet you do!
No, you just lied. It's what you always do.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#312391 Sep 30, 2013
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
He was excommunicated for many reasons mostly publically advocting a stance abjectly different from the Church. It's like the CEO of Verizon placing ads for people to sign up with Comcast. That CEO might as well get a job with Comcast.
I believe that civil unions afford those rights. I believe they will not be satisfied until marriage means between any consenting adults.
We well just have to see where 'getting with the times' takes us. I don't think the Church wants to go there.
BTW the Church has acknowledged that their condemnation of Galileo was wrong but I ask you how many people believed his theory in the 1600's?
The Jesuits are famous for their studies of astronomy and have some of the most sophisticaed equipment.
And finally, were is it written that using contrception is a mortal sin? I am not aware of that. In fact I have always understood that policies of the Church are just that policies but we all have a conscience and are expected to use it in our lives.
The whole issue of "marriage" will not be something most religiously conservative folks will embrace with any sort of enthusiasm, granted. However, there were other issues that they were as adamantly against in the past, which did come into being, and the sky didn't fall--though I suspect many of them will argue that we're worse off for it as a society. And, with regards to their perception of how our society ought to be, they're "right."
The Catholic Church, like any other well-established institution, is naturally going to be resistant to any sort of change that is a potential challenge to its authority. After all, it is following and proclaiming a doctrine that it genuinely believes it eternal and not subject to change over time but we see, in practice that this isn't necessarily so...which is why I was using Galileo as an illustrative example.
You'd likely know better than I where a proclamation against contraception is "written." To my understanding it's not--but is traditionally accepted in the overall Catholic community as a "mortal sin." Now, the general perception by non-believers is that the Church is trying to have it both ways by condemning abortion as an abomination, and preaching against contraception as, "thwarting God's will," (emphasis mine, not the church's.) I realize what they're trying to achieve is to prevent sex-out-of-wedlock, and while that's an admirable goal, it's not a "realistic" one.

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