Tom Brady is Overrated

Full story: Dr. U 10,033
Tom Brady of the New England Patriots is the most overrated quarterback in the NFL. Full Story

“I call it as I see it.”

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#10112 Jan 4, 2013
TMD wrote:
<quoted text>
Great! You take the guy that has a bunch of catches, and I'll take the guy who can break a game wide open, and/or win it. Looks like SanFran agrees with me.
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<quoted text>
I never said he was the same back he was years ago. I just said he is the kind of back that needs more touches. He gets stronger towards the end of the game. He never has started strong. And, once again, I'll state that the Giants don't have ANY backs that could start for the 9ers. Not one.
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<quoted text>
Your inclusion of a coach you did not know personally, is deceased, and has nothing to do with this conversation, and the fact that you now want to argue this point, is a red herring and YOU know it.
It seems you would rather talk about dead coaches, RBs, and WRs, when this discussion is supposed to be about Coughlin and Manning. Let me know when you want to get back to the original conversation.
Manningham didn't break that many games wide upen and his failures on third down quenched many a drive. And you dead coach point is a lifeless point, pun intended.

If Jacobs performance hadn't been dropping off, the Giants would have made a much stronger effort to sign him. Jacobs "getting stronger" as a game wears on is more of a sign of defenses tiring as the game wears on than a strength gain on his part.

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“I call it as I see it.”

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#10113 Jan 4, 2013
Jacobs is 30 years old which is very old for a running back to begin with. His best years are behind him.

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“I call it as I see it.”

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#10114 Jan 4, 2013
Just for the record, I am not handing out the judge its here. Judgeits are only opinions anyway and there are ways to post mulitiple judge its by the same individual anyway and I don't think TMD is nuts simply for disagreeing. Our biggest point of contention is Tm coughlin and a new head coach is never a guarentee of success anyway. Kepping a coach with two Super Bowl wins sounds more logical than taking a chance with somebody else.

Does Alex Webster ring a bell? Dan Reeves was a slight upgrade over Ray Handley, but not by much. Neither of those "saviours" did much to change Giant fortunes and in Webster's case, they regressed. Webster's predecessor, Allie Sherman, won three Easrtern Conference titles, had three 7-7 seasons and two losing seasons. In five years, Webster never got the Giants to the post season with two winning seasons and three losing seasons.

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Since: Apr 08

Akron, Ohio

#10115 Jan 4, 2013
I don't think either of you are nuts. Can I change the subject since this is Wild Card Weekend coming up?... I just need a consensus from EVERYBODY as to who you all think is going to go on to play the Patriots!

“I call it as I see it.”

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#10116 Jan 4, 2013
Bewitched wrote:
I don't think either of you are nuts. Can I change the subject since this is Wild Card Weekend coming up?... I just need a consensus from EVERYBODY as to who you all think is going to go on to play the Patriots!
We all can give our logically based predictions, But even the experts often make wrong calls on games which means I intend to enjoy the playoffs rather than predict them. Any one of the 12 payoff teams have a legitimate shot at it. Last year, hardly anybody expected NY to win it all.

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TMD

“Look! Up in the sky!”

Since: Dec 06

Columbus, Ohio

#10117 Jan 4, 2013
flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>Unfortunately, Manning's performance in "little game" circumstances kept them out of the playoffs.
As I said before, it was good enough in both SB years. One average year and you're ready to write him off. Some fan.

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At least 25 teams who would love to have Manning might well be an overly optimistic thing. At least five other tems for certain would not start him over Brees, Rodgers, RG3, Brady, and Ryan while he would have a hard time unseating Rivers and Roethlesberger and a few others. Add to that teams with young promising QBs who have a promising future ahead of them and are likely to be starters for years to come who will only get better with experience. Eli's rate ranked 14th this year among starting QBs which sounds more like middle of the pack to me among the starters. Eli is good, but hardly elite.
Well, either he's middle of the pack (mediocre), or he's good. Which is it?

The QBR doesn't tell you how effective a QB is. It just measures production. Romo has great production every year, but his decision making and effectiveness is no better than a backup QB. Case in point: Andrew Luck. He has a pretty low QBR, but I don't think there's any denying his effectiveness as a field general. There's more to rating a QB than using the QBR.

Aside from:
Indianapolis - Sir Andrew Luck
Washington - RG3
Denver - P. Manning
N'Orleans - Brees
New England - Brady
Pittsburgh - Roethlisberger
Green Bay - Rodgers

Any of the other teams would be quite happy to have Manning. Rivers, Flacco, and Ryan fade in the playoffs every year, and I'm just not sure what Russell will do.

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Tom Coughlin has had two Super Bowl victories which is two more than most head coaches will ever have. He has a career winning record. Even Vince Lombardi would have had trouble with the Giants this year as they were very mediocre on defense and banged up on offense at some key positions, not to mention having an erratic QB.
I believe this is a just a repeat of what you earlier stated. Repeating an opinion (almost verbatim) doesn't make it true. I see you also decided to bring up dead coaches again. Sigh...

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I fail to see the revelance of my choice of words to the discussion as it relates to statistics. In arriving at my statistics, I used Pro Football Reference's feature where by clicking on two different years, his first and ninth season, I was able to get a cumulative performance which was much higher than the one you tried to pass off on us and clearly superior to Manning in his first 9 seasons.
And, once again, I've already said that Brady was a superior QB. However, Brady is no where near the big game QB that Manning is.

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Brady came on much more strongly at age 30 than Manning has and I suspect Manning has already peaked as a QB. Brady has a higher career rate than Manning's best season.
Now we're comparing ages? What's next? Birthdays? Geez...

Once again, we've already covered the cumulative to a single season QBR, but if repeating your opinion makes you feel better, so be it.

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Tom Brady Passing Statistics for Career Games 2000 to 2008
Games Passing Passing
Year Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Rate 2000-2008 2301 3653 63.0% 26446 197 5.4 86 2.4 92.9
Brady's 92.9 is definitely at least a step up from Manning's 82.7.
I've already told you this is NOT what I was comparing:

http://www.topix.com/forum/nfl/new-england-pa...

TMD

“Look! Up in the sky!”

Since: Dec 06

Columbus, Ohio

#10118 Jan 4, 2013
flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>Manningham didn't break that many games wide upen and his failures on third down quenched many a drive. And you dead coach point is a lifeless point, pun intended.
If you don't like it, stop trying to speak for them as if you personally know them...

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If Jacobs performance hadn't been dropping off, the Giants would have made a much stronger effort to sign him. Jacobs "getting stronger" as a game wears on is more of a sign of defenses tiring as the game wears on than a strength gain on his part.
Getting stronger towards the end of the game is SOMETIMES about defenses tiring. However, all RBs worth anything, at all levels, pick up the pace and get into a rhythm the more you let them carry the rock. I'm speaking from experience.

TMD

“Look! Up in the sky!”

Since: Dec 06

Columbus, Ohio

#10119 Jan 4, 2013
flbadcatowner wrote:
Just for the record, I am not handing out the judge its here. Judgeits are only opinions anyway and there are ways to post mulitiple judge its by the same individual anyway and I don't think TMD is nuts simply for disagreeing.
I could care less about the judgeits. It doesn't affect my comments one way or the other. I would hope you would not let them affect yours.

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Our biggest point of contention is Tm coughlin and a new head coach is never a guarentee of success anyway. Kepping a coach with two Super Bowl wins sounds more logical than taking a chance with somebody else.
If that were the logical choice in the NFL, no SB winning coach would EVER get replaced. However, that's just not the case:

Landry
Starr (he won 5 NFL championships as a player)
J. Johnson
Switzer
Gruden
Billick
Parcells
Holmgren

And many others that advanced to AFC/NFC championships and/or SBs, but did not win. And while we're on the subject; does anybody really believe Switzer was that great a coach, or did his success have more to do with the talent that he inherited?

The NFL is a what-have-you-done-for-me-late ly league, and Coughlin has squeezed out just about every drop of goodwill he has accumulated in NY. Unless his teams start playing better in the second half of the season, he will be one step from the chopping block every year.

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Does Alex Webster ring a bell? Dan Reeves was a slight upgrade over Ray Handley, but not by much. Neither of those "saviours" did much to change Giant fortunes and in Webster's case, they regressed. Webster's predecessor, Allie Sherman, won three Easrtern Conference titles, had three 7-7 seasons and two losing seasons. In five years, Webster never got the Giants to the post season with two winning seasons and three losing seasons.
All this doesn't change the fact that coaches are replaced when the product becomes "stale" to the owners. And new, fresh coaches are coming to the league every year. Coughlin is not irreplaceable. There are better coaches out there.

“I call it as I see it.”

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#10120 Jan 4, 2013
TMD wrote:
<quoted text>
I could care less about the judgeits. It doesn't affect my comments one way or the other. I would hope you would not let them affect yours.
.
<quoted text>
If that were the logical choice in the NFL, no SB winning coach would EVER get replaced. However, that's just not the case:
Landry
Starr (he won 5 NFL championships as a player)
J. Johnson
Switzer
Gruden
Billick
Parcells
Holmgren
And many others that advanced to AFC/NFC championships and/or SBs, but did not win. And while we're on the subject; does anybody really believe Switzer was that great a coach, or did his success have more to do with the talent that he inherited?
The NFL is a what-have-you-done-for-me-late ly league, and Coughlin has squeezed out just about every drop of goodwill he has accumulated in NY. Unless his teams start playing better in the second half of the season, he will be one step from the chopping block every year.
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<quoted text>
All this doesn't change the fact that coaches are replaced when the product becomes "stale" to the owners. And new, fresh coaches are coming to the league every year. Coughlin is not irreplaceable. There are better coaches out there.
How do you know there are better coaches than Coughlin out there? There is no guarentee a new coach will improve a team's fortunes. Couyghlin just won a Super Bowl last year and you are already clamoring to replace him after the Giants and their suspect defense almost made it to the playoffs in spite of many key injuries on both sides of the ball and an off year by Manning. Most football experts tend to rate coughlin as one of the better NFL coaches. Landry did not deserve to be fired and Starr bombed completely as a head coach and Parcells resigned after a second SB victory. Johnson and switzer resigned and were never fired

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Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#10121 Jan 4, 2013
TMD wrote:
<quoted text>
As I said before, it was good enough in both SB years. One average year and you're ready to write him off. Some fan.
Are you not doing the same thing to Coughlin? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

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Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#10122 Jan 4, 2013
TMD wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
I've already told you this is NOT what I was comparing:
http://www.topix.com/forum/nfl/new-england-pa...
No matter how you slice things, Brady always seems to come on top with statistics. and what you were trying to compare just didn't hold water. It was an obvious cheery pick.

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TMD

“Look! Up in the sky!”

Since: Dec 06

Columbus, Ohio

#10123 Jan 4, 2013
flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>How do you know there are better coaches than Coughlin out there? There is no guarentee a new coach will improve a team's fortunes. Couyghlin just won a Super Bowl last year and you are already clamoring to replace him after the Giants and their suspect defense almost made it to the playoffs in spite of many key injuries on both sides of the ball and an off year by Manning. Most football experts tend to rate coughlin as one of the better NFL coaches.
How do I know? Because EVERY YEAR a "new" face shows up that shakes up the NFL. Look at what Pete Carroll did in Seattle, Jim Harbaugh did in SF, and Bruce Arians in Indy this year. There are many more undiscovered GREAT head coaches out there. The owners and GMs just have to find the right fit.

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Landry did not deserve to be fired and Starr bombed completely as a head coach and Parcells resigned after a second SB victory. Johnson and switzer resigned and were never fired
Landry's methods had become outdated (much like Coughlin's), and Starr bombed out because he didn't have an ELITE QB to carry his teams.

As far as Johnson and Parcells goes, the official press release said they resigned, but everybody knew they were going to be fired if they hadn't resigned.

This still doesn't speak to all the other names on the list. And I could have added more names, like Andy Reid and Lovie Smith.

The NFL is very unforgiving when it comes to managers. Coughlin has had questionable managerial skills for a long time. If the Giants want to be thought of in the same way as other perennial powerhouses, they will have to start winning more consistently. The only way to do that is to hire someone who brings fresh, new ideas to the organization. That's just not going to happen as long as Coughlin is there.

TMD

“Look! Up in the sky!”

Since: Dec 06

Columbus, Ohio

#10124 Jan 4, 2013
flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>Are you not doing the same thing to Coughlin? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
My opinion wasn't just formed this year. As I previously stated, Coughlin was almost fired in '07. Manning's superb post season play, and miracle SB win against a heavily favored opponent, saved his job.

TMD

“Look! Up in the sky!”

Since: Dec 06

Columbus, Ohio

#10125 Jan 4, 2013
flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>No matter how you slice things, Brady always seems to come on top with statistics. and what you were trying to compare just didn't hold water. It was an obvious cheery pick.
I never said he didn't. So, for the LAST time, I am conceding that Brady is a better QB than Manning. Manning is just THE BEST big game QB in the league.

Can we please stop rehashing this same point over and over again?

TMD

“Look! Up in the sky!”

Since: Dec 06

Columbus, Ohio

#10126 Jan 4, 2013
Bewitched wrote:
I don't think either of you are nuts. Can I change the subject since this is Wild Card Weekend coming up?... I just need a consensus from EVERYBODY as to who you all think is going to go on to play the Patriots!
Sam! Can you guess my pick?

You know I'm taking Indy over Baltimore. I don't like their chances over the Pats, but anything could happen.

As much as I would like to pick Cincy in the other game, I just don't trust them. So, the Texans advance to the divisional round and promptly get crushed by Denver.

I think everyone gets their dream game in the AFCC: Denver vs. New England.

Since: Apr 08

Akron, Ohio

#10127 Jan 4, 2013
So, will the AFC Championship be played in Denver should that scenario play out?

A Brady/Manning match up just for you and I. lol

Since: Apr 08

Akron, Ohio

#10128 Jan 4, 2013
Oh, almost forgot ... Browns are working up a deal right now with Chip Kelly of Oregon for the Head Coach position. They must have made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

“I call it as I see it.”

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#10129 Jan 4, 2013
TMD wrote:
<quoted text>
How do I know? Because EVERY YEAR a "new" face shows up that shakes up the NFL. Look at what Pete Carroll did in Seattle, Jim Harbaugh did in SF, and Bruce Arians in Indy this year. There are many more undiscovered GREAT head coaches out there. The owners and GMs just have to find the right fit.
.
<quoted text>
Landry's methods had become outdated (much like Coughlin's), and Starr bombed out because he didn't have an ELITE QB to carry his teams.
As far as Johnson and Parcells goes, the official press release said they resigned, but everybody knew they were going to be fired if they hadn't resigned.
This still doesn't speak to all the other names on the list. And I could have added more names, like Andy Reid and Lovie Smith.
The NFL is very unforgiving when it comes to managers. Coughlin has had questionable managerial skills for a long time. If the Giants want to be thought of in the same way as other perennial powerhouses, they will have to start winning more consistently. The only way to do that is to hire someone who brings fresh, new ideas to the organization. That's just not going to happen as long as Coughlin is there.
Parcells left after a championship season with the Giants. He certainly was not pushed out. Jim Johnson simply did not see eye to eye with an owner. and for every Pete Carroll, there are many Bill Arnspargers and Ray Handleys. Even a great coach could be a wrong fit for a certain team. Landry just suffered from a lack of horses to do the job and not coaching methods. And how can a coaches methods suddenly become obsolete in just one season after the same methods won a Super Bowl the year before?

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Since: Jul 09

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#10130 Jan 4, 2013
TMD wrote:
<quoted text>
My opinion wasn't just formed this year. As I previously stated, Coughlin was almost fired in '07. Manning's superb post season play, and miracle SB win against a heavily favored opponent, saved his job.
And the coach deserves at least some of the credit. Two Super Bowl wins are two more than nearly every other coach will have.

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“I call it as I see it.”

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#10131 Jan 4, 2013
TMD wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said he didn't. So, for the LAST time, I am conceding that Brady is a better QB than Manning. Manning is just THE BEST big game QB in the league.
Can we please stop rehashing this same point over and over again?
Manning has also been bailed out by great catches of not so well thrown balls and has also had his share of failures to convert when the game was on the line. A few of his comeback wins would have been unnecessary if he was on his game for four quarters and not just the closing minutes. If Brady has fewer comeback wins, it is because he rarely falls behind from inconsistent play in the first place as often as Manning does.

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