Cavs pull off big deal to land point ...

Cavs pull off big deal to land point guard

There are 311 comments on the Akron Beacon Journal story from Aug 13, 2008, titled Cavs pull off big deal to land point guard. In it, Akron Beacon Journal reports that:

An NBA executive said the Cavaliers, in a trade expected to be completed later today, finally have acquired a top-level point guard in executing a six-player, three-team deal.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Akron Beacon Journal.

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NoamChimpsky

“Religion is for stupid people”

Since: May 08

Anytown, USA

#307 Aug 25, 2008
alan t wrote:
<quoted text> Uhh ... no. But when you have that much cap space, the possibilities are endless. In fact, you can create your own possibilities. Like walking up to a house, the owners say the house is not for sale, and then you reply, "EVERYTHING is for sale." Which is why it's just plain ignorant for you to demand specifics. When you have $30 million in cap space, everything, with the exception of the Dwayne Wades and Kobe Bryants and Dirk Nowitzkis of the world, are for sale. The 2005 summer was a fairly poor season for free-agents that would go well with James. So you go where you want to go by taking another route. Not only did Ferry require some experience, wisdom and smarts, but a decent GPS would have come in handy, too.
Thanks for another non-answer. So in other words, you have no answer as to what he could have done better, you just like to bash for the sake of bashing. Saying "someone" would have been available is just another dodge of the question. The fact is, Hughes was easily the best player available, and was coming off a 22 ppg season and an excellent defensive player. Jones and Marshall were prolific 3-pt shooters, and Marshall was one of the best rebounding reserves in the league. At the time, it was a pretty good off-season.

NoamChimpsky

“Religion is for stupid people”

Since: May 08

Anytown, USA

#308 Aug 25, 2008
alan t wrote:
<quoted text> Quit twisting my words and taking them out of context. A smart GM builds a team. With that much cap space, you can pick and choose what deals to aim for. Ferry blew his entire wad and landlocked the roster for several years in salary cap hell. When good deals and good players came available, as they do every year, it precluded Cleveland from being a player. Bottom line. Why or how this is so difficult to comprehend, I have no idea.
So your "solution" would have been to sit back, sign nobody, miss the playoffs again, piss Lebron off, and keep your fingers crossed that someone would offer us an all-star for our junk. Good thing you are not associated with any NBA front-office and are just some idiot who runs his mouth on a forum.
alan t

Delaware, OH

#309 Aug 25, 2008
NoamChimpsky wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for another non-answer. So in other words, you have no answer as to what he could have done better, you just like to bash for the sake of bashing. Saying "someone" would have been available is just another dodge of the question. The fact is, Hughes was easily the best player available, and was coming off a 22 ppg season and an excellent defensive player. Jones and Marshall were prolific 3-pt shooters, and Marshall was one of the best rebounding reserves in the league. At the time, it was a pretty good off-season.
Pal, seriously, you're just clueless. Who in the hell is dumb enough to give a 32-year-old guy who's already slow as molasses, a purported power forward who roams the court 50 feet from the basket, four years? Who in the hell is dumb enough to give a guy who had been on 10 teams in eight years, a guy that couldn't do anything but shoot standing still, multimillion dollars for four years? Who in the hell gives an aging plodding center without another suitor five figures a year, plus a 15% trade kicker, for five years, and keeping him until he's *35*!

Seriously, kiddo. You don't know what you're talking about. Hughes was given way too much cash for too many years, but he was a roll of the dice that at least had a semblance of a chance to roll a 7. The others were just flat-out stupidity from the get-go, and they all prevented the roster from moves for years.

NoamChimpsky

“Religion is for stupid people”

Since: May 08

Anytown, USA

#310 Aug 27, 2008
alan t wrote:
<quoted text> Pal, seriously, you're just clueless. Who in the hell is dumb enough to give a 32-year-old guy who's already slow as molasses, a purported power forward who roams the court 50 feet from the basket, four years? Who in the hell is dumb enough to give a guy who had been on 10 teams in eight years, a guy that couldn't do anything but shoot standing still, multimillion dollars for four years? Who in the hell gives an aging plodding center without another suitor five figures a year, plus a 15% trade kicker, for five years, and keeping him until he's *35*!
Seriously, kiddo. You don't know what you're talking about. Hughes was given way too much cash for too many years, but he was a roll of the dice that at least had a semblance of a chance to roll a 7. The others were just flat-out stupidity from the get-go, and they all prevented the roster from moves for years.
Marshall and DJ were not horrible signings at the time. Typical of you bandwagon fans, you seem to forget that we had NO 3-pt shooting back then, and Marshall was one of the best big men shooters in the league, plus a good rebounder. We had no PG at the time, and Jones was a great 3-pt shooter coming off a good season. Jones' contract, compared to other veterans, really isn't that bad.

And no Cavs fan has any regrets about signing Z. He's more than earned his money, and I would even consider him a bargain compared to many highly-paid big men in the league.
alan t

Delaware, OH

#311 Aug 27, 2008
NoamChimpsky wrote:
<quoted text>
Marshall and DJ were not horrible signings at the time. Typical of you bandwagon fans, you seem to forget that we had NO 3-pt shooting back then, and Marshall was one of the best big men shooters in the league, plus a good rebounder. We had no PG at the time, and Jones was a great 3-pt shooter coming off a good season. Jones' contract, compared to other veterans, really isn't that bad.
And no Cavs fan has any regrets about signing Z. He's more than earned his money, and I would even consider him a bargain compared to many highly-paid big men in the league.
No Cavs fans has any regrets about signing Z? Very kind of you to speak for 100% of all Cavs fans, Chimpsky.

And tons of people griped about those Marshall and Jones signings. And why not? Four years for Marshall until the age of 35. You've gotta be kidding me. And over $4 million a year, for another lunatic four years, for a one-trick pony like Jones? If you want a guy that can only shoot a three-pointer, they're all over the place for the rookie or vet's minimum. They really ain't that hard to find. But what IS hard to find is a complete basketball player. He didn't have to be an all-star. Ferry tried to find pieces and parts instead of guys who can do multiple things. As a result, people were treated to years of ugly basketball, with victories coming only because of the greatness of one single guy.
alan t

Delaware, OH

#312 Aug 27, 2008
Actually, I believe I misspoke. Marshall's genius contract will expire when he's damn close to 36. Oy vey. Whatta deal! Although, I gotta admit that there's something about Marshall's girlish face and heavenly man-boobs that I find quite titillating.

“All for 1, 1 for all”

Since: Apr 08

Akron, Ohio

#313 Aug 27, 2008
Ghost of Akron Al wrote:
<quoted text>
There were no character issues with Larry Hughes. He has always been thought of as a good guy, and a decent worker. He just had a history of injury is all. Washington was willing to give Hughes the same amount of money over six years - so it'snot like Ferry just pulled the dollar amount out of a hat, he wanted Hughes and paid him ow much it took to get him to leave Washington. And I don't think it was so much that Lebron wanted Hughes specifically as Lebron wanted the team to make significant strides to improve.
And you bring up the point of Kupchak turning down giving up Bynum in a deal as him staring down Kobe or something. Don't you remember how vocal Lebron was about getting Kidd himself. If not dealing for Kidd against the wishes of a superstar is something to be lauded, why not Ferry then, too?
I remember Larry nailing those crucial 3's in the previous season's playofffs like it was yesterday. That Kidd rumor hung around for so long, you knew it wasn't happening. Even thought the Michael Redd rumor would happen. If LB is happy with who we got, I'm happy. He's smarter than me and all you chumps combined, right Le Bron???( I'm from your SVSM neighborhood)
Milos Babic

Hayward, CA

#314 Sep 1, 2008
More garbage from Alan t. Let's see. First of all, you, through all of your complaining about how Cleveland sucks, have admitted it's difficult to sign free agents in Cleveland. That off season the Cavs were a lottery team that didn't really have much by the way of tradeable assets, so it made sense to try to go after a few free agents to fill holes in the roster - point guard, big man and three point shooting. It makes sense the contracts might be a year long or a million more than you might see from, say, Miami, right - the Cavs were trying to actually SIGN these guys, not just make a showing. Hopefully, having a winning tradition established and a chance to play alongside Lebron will bring the Cleveland price down a little, but we'll see.

Marshall: Hardly seen as a one dimensional player at the time, Marshall was coming off 11.5ppg, 6.6rpg,.416 3pfg% in 25 mpg. He'd averaged a double double the previous year, and had shot more than 40% from 3 point range the previous four seasons. He was used as a three point shooter off the bench the previous year in Toronto, but historically less than a third of his shots came from outside the arc - so he didn't just score as a bomber. And he'd been a solid rebounder throughout his career. That's the history of the 32 year old player the Cavs signed to a four year deal. Was age a concern? Sure. That's one reason why he had to take less money than his previous contract. And some people didn't like the signing - I'm not surprised you didn't, because you don't seem to like anything. But most fans and writers were optimistic the Cavs signed a big man that could fill it up from the outside. We all know Marshall flopped. He lost all confidence in anything other than a three, and didn't shoot that well anymore. It's the easiest thing in the world to sit here and complain about it. But his dollars seem right in line with other big men of similar pedigree that changed teams around that time (tough to gauge, really, despite alan's claim, there aren't very many big men that shoot the three that teams let go - Brian Cardinal the year before and Radmanovic the year after, neither with Marshall's credentials, both signed for more money). And the fact he's been moved is proof enough that his contract wasn't so awful that it froze the Cavs roster or anything.
Milos Babic

Hayward, CA

#315 Sep 1, 2008
Damon Jones - brought in to be the primary ball handler and a three point threat in the starting backcourt to compliment Lebron, Damon Jones was a journeyman coming off his first season as a full time starter in the NBA. His numbers for the Heat, 11.5ppg,.452fg%,.432 3pfg% were a very tantalizing addition to the Cavs, who were absolutely awful from three point range. Miami wanted him back, but the Cavs were willing to give him an extra year, starting at 3.5M. The last year of the deal, Jones would be 32. Jones didn't have the trackrecord of Marshall, and was a riskier signing, but his contract started about 2 million dollars less. His contract was comparable in dollars to Sarunas Jasikevicius, the other 29 year old point guard signed that summer. The deal was a year longer, but that's what it took to get him from the Heat. And again, this wasn't a large contract, and he's been dealt. It was neither untradeable nor prevented the Cavs from making other moves. He tanked, and the Cavs had a 4M a year player firmly planted on their bench for a season or so - like most teams in the NBA, because players don't work out all the time.

alan's babble about Ilgauskas has been solidly rebuffed on multiple occasions. I encourage anyone intersted to check out the thread ( http://www.topix.com/forum/source/akron-beaco... )
. But in summary, Z is not overpaid, nor is his contract outrageously long, nor is there any reason to think managment was "bidding against themselves", and nobody cares about the trade kicker.

The bottom line is that Ferry went 0 for 3 on the free agents signings from that summer. I'm no apologist. Hughes was hurt like he always was, Jones lost his shot (I'm guessing somewhere on the bank from cashing in his first guaranteed deal), and Marshall got real old, real fast. alan talks about rolling the dice on Hughes - that's basically what they did with all three free agents, and each one came up snake eyes. It was, frankly, painful to watch each of those signings turn out as poorly as they possible could. But the reality is they were solid moves when they were made, and that the team has neither been unsuccessful nor handcuffed from making moves to improve.
Milos Babic

Hayward, CA

#316 Sep 1, 2008
More garbage from Alan t. Let's see. First of all, you, through all of your complaining about how Cleveland sucks, have admitted it's difficult to sign free agents in Cleveland. That off season the Cavs were a lottery team that didn't really have much by the way of tradeable assets, so it made sense to try to go after a few free agents to fill holes in the roster - point guard, big man and three point shooting. It makes sense the contracts might be a year long or a million more than you might see from, say, Miami, right - the Cavs were trying to actually SIGN these guys, not just make a showing. Hopefully, having a winning tradition established and a chance to play alongside Lebron will bring the Cleveland price down a little, but we'll see.

Marshall: Hardly seen as a one dimensional player at the time, Marshall was coming off 11.5ppg, 6.6rpg,.416 3pfg% in 25 mpg. He'd averaged a double double the previous year, and had shot more than 40% from 3 point range the previous four seasons. He was used as a three point shooter off the bench the previous year in Toronto, but historically less than a third of his shots came from outside the arc - so he didn't just score as a bomber. And he'd been a solid rebounder throughout his career. That's the history of the 32 year old player the Cavs signed to a four year deal. Was age a concern? Sure. That's one reason why he had to take less money than his previous contract. And some people didn't like the signing - I'm not surprised you didn't, because you don't seem to like anything. But most fans and writers were optimistic the Cavs signed a big man that could fill it up from the outside. We all know Marshall flopped. He lost all confidence in anything other than a three, and didn't shoot that well anymore. It's the easiest thing in the world to sit here and complain about it. But his dollars seem right in line with other big men of similar pedigree that changed teams around that time (tough to gauge, really, despite alan's claim, there aren't very many big men that shoot the three that teams let go - Brian Cardinal the year before and Radmanovic the year after, neither with Marshall's credentials, both signed for more money). And the fact he's been moved is proof enough that his contract wasn't so awful that it froze the Cavs roster or anything.
Milos Babic

Hayward, CA

#317 Sep 1, 2008
sorry, I hate when it posts like that....

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