Cleveland casino will occupy old Higb...

Cleveland casino will occupy old Higbee department store | The Columbus Dispatch

There are 73 comments on the Columbus Dispatch story from Feb 3, 2011, titled Cleveland casino will occupy old Higbee department store | The Columbus Dispatch. In it, Columbus Dispatch reports that:

Backers say Cleveland's casino will open next year in a former department store to be renovated at a cost of $350 million.

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Reader

Columbus, OH

#61 Feb 7, 2011
Sterling Silver wrote:
<quoted text>
Talk about clueless, they create wealth for the casino owners, and provide employment to workers in the casino. Guess that doesn't count, does it?
I thought it was a funny comment myself. Government workers, we are told, don't produce anything. And neither do community organizers or anyone who works for a non-profit.

By those criteria, any service worker would be counted as non-productive.
Sterling Silver

Columbus, OH

#62 Feb 7, 2011
We want good jobs wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it does not count as "value-added" production of wealth.
Economies grow based on value-added production. That basically means taking $10 worth of raw materials, labor and intellectual property and creating something worth $20.
By contrast, a casino takes $100 and gives back $90 in return for an entertainment service. You need value-added wealth generation in an economy in order to support value-subtractive service industries.
Nice. You make a comment, I disprove it, and then you change your terminology. Dishonest debater is what you are.

You open a casino, you run it right, people are employed, you get rich. That to me is a positive. It's better than the nothing that was there before, and would have continued.

So let's get rid of all the "value-subtractive" service industries and see how much life is worth living.
No Trains

Columbus, OH

#63 Feb 7, 2011
Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
The comparative size difference between the Cleveland Higbees and the City Center are pretty substantial. Not to mention, Higbees is connected to Tower City, a still thriving shopping venue.
One of the biggest differences is that Tower City has a train station in the basement where the red, blue and green lines all cross. A lot of people get off trains there to go downtown.
we want good jobs

Columbus, OH

#64 Feb 7, 2011
Sterling Silver wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice. You make a comment, I disprove it, and then you change your terminology. Dishonest debater is what you are.
You open a casino, you run it right, people are employed, you get rich. That to me is a positive. It's better than the nothing that was there before, and would have continued.
So let's get rid of all the "value-subtractive" service industries and see how much life is worth living.
All I said is that casinos don't grow the economy. I never said they didn't provide jobs. You said that I said that.

I'm not advocating getting rid of services. Services make life nice, but you need a value-added production base in order to be able to afford services.

One of the definitions of a value-added product is that it can be used to increase productivity. That allows fewer people in the economy to produce more tangible goods, and frees up people to work in service industries that improve the quality of life for everyone.
Sterling Silver

Columbus, OH

#65 Feb 7, 2011
we want good jobs wrote:
<quoted text>
All I said is that casinos don't grow the economy. I never said they didn't provide jobs. You said that I said that.
I'm not advocating getting rid of services. Services make life nice, but you need a value-added production base in order to be able to afford services.
One of the definitions of a value-added product is that it can be used to increase productivity. That allows fewer people in the economy to produce more tangible goods, and frees up people to work in service industries that improve the quality of life for everyone.
You changed your story again! Can't you remember what you said??? Here it is, copied and pasted:

Casinos don't produce any wealth. They simply divert consumer spending from business that actually create added value to the economy.

I never said that you said they didn't provide jobs. Go back, and CAREFULLY read what I wrote. Do not infer anything. Unlike you, I choose my words carefully, and stick to my original arguments in my posts. And when I make a mistake, I admit it. Had you worded your original post better, I would never have responded. But your original statement, "Casinos don't produce any wealth", is quite clearly clueless. And the jobs they produce give people a means to spend in that economy, money that the casino losers didn't spend in that economy.

Say what you mean and mean what you say.
Harry

Columbus, OH

#66 Feb 7, 2011
we want good jobs wrote:
<quoted text>
All I said is that casinos don't grow the economy. I never said they didn't provide jobs. You said that I said that.
I'm not advocating getting rid of services. Services make life nice, but you need a value-added production base in order to be able to afford services.
One of the definitions of a value-added product is that it can be used to increase productivity. That allows fewer people in the economy to produce more tangible goods, and frees up people to work in service industries that improve the quality of life for everyone.
You're on the right track, but some services technically do add value to the economy also. Two examples immediately come to mind: Health care and Education. These are both technically 'service industries' but both result in a more productive work force.
we want good jobs

Columbus, OH

#67 Feb 7, 2011
Sterling Silver wrote:
<quoted text>
You changed your story again! Can't you remember what you said??? Here it is, copied and pasted:
Casinos don't produce any wealth. They simply divert consumer spending from business that actually create added value to the economy.
I never said that you said they didn't provide jobs. Go back, and CAREFULLY read what I wrote. Do not infer anything. Unlike you, I choose my words carefully, and stick to my original arguments in my posts. And when I make a mistake, I admit it. Had you worded your original post better, I would never have responded. But your original statement, "Casinos don't produce any wealth", is quite clearly clueless. And the jobs they produce give people a means to spend in that economy, money that the casino losers didn't spend in that economy.
Say what you mean and mean what you say.
I don't know why you're having so much trouble understanding what I'm saying. I'll try one more time.

First, my title says "We want good jobs" That's the subject of my post.

I define "good jobs" as good-paying value-added jobs. I assert that casinos are not "good jobs" by my definition. That's my opinion, and you're entitled to disagree, but you're not entitled to call me "dishonest."

If people want a casino, that's fine. I'm just tired of hearing everyone say how good it is for the economy because I don't believe that.

Have a nice day.
Sterling Silver

Columbus, OH

#68 Feb 7, 2011
we want good jobs wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know why you're having so much trouble understanding what I'm saying. I'll try one more time.
First, my title says "We want good jobs" That's the subject of my post.
I define "good jobs" as good-paying value-added jobs. I assert that casinos are not "good jobs" by my definition. That's my opinion, and you're entitled to disagree, but you're not entitled to call me "dishonest."
If people want a casino, that's fine. I'm just tired of hearing everyone say how good it is for the economy because I don't believe that.
Have a nice day.
When you say you said "A" and you actually said "B", that's dishonest in my book.

Clearly you know nothing about intellectual honesty.

And it's not your "title", it's your posting name. A title is "Doctor", "Mister", something that is put in front of your actual name.

Clearly, word meaning is not your strong suit either. Read some of what Mark Twain had to say about writing, and hopefully your expression will improve.
we want good jobs

Columbus, OH

#69 Feb 7, 2011
Sterling Silver wrote:
<quoted text>
When you say you said "A" and you actually said "B", that's dishonest in my book.
Clearly you know nothing about intellectual honesty.
And it's not your "title", it's your posting name. A title is "Doctor", "Mister", something that is put in front of your actual name.
Clearly, word meaning is not your strong suit either. Read some of what Mark Twain had to say about writing, and hopefully your expression will improve.
That's quite not how I see it. I see it more like I say "A" and you respond "B". So, I then respond to "B" and you say I've changed my original post, when I'm just trying to keep up with you.

Anyway, opinions are neither honest nor dishonest. They are neither right nor wrong. They are opinions. Opinions can be informed or uninformed, or they can have ideological leanings, but mostly they're just opinions.
Sterling Silver

Columbus, OH

#70 Feb 7, 2011
we want good jobs wrote:
<quoted text>
That's quite not how I see it. I see it more like I say "A" and you respond "B". So, I then respond to "B" and you say I've changed my original post, when I'm just trying to keep up with you.
Anyway, opinions are neither honest nor dishonest. They are neither right nor wrong. They are opinions. Opinions can be informed or uninformed, or they can have ideological leanings, but mostly they're just opinions.
"Casinos don't produce any wealth." Statement #1

"No, it does not count as 'value-added' production of wealth." Statement #2

"All I said is that casinos don't grow the economy." Statement #3

As any rational person can see, each of these sentence says something different. In statement one, you state they "don't produce ANY wealth".(emphasis added). That means NO wealth in any circumstance. In statement two, you try to amend that by adding the "value-added" qualifier. That is intellectually dishonest. Then in the third statement you use the phrase "grow the economy" and claim you said that earlier. Show me the post, after I joined this discussion, where you said casinos don't grow the economy, those exact words. You can't because it is not there. Again intellectually dishonest, or sloppy thinking/writing. Producing wealth is not the same as growing the economy. Different concepts. Any wealth is different than value-added wealth.

In the end, if you want someone to accept your opinion (and you do, or else why post it out here?), you have to make a convincing case. All I'm trying to tell you, which apparently YOU don't understand, is either you are arguing dishonestly or sloppily, but you are not making your point because you are not credible.

Say what you mean and mean what you say. THEN your opinion will carry some weight.
Judy

Washington, DC

#71 Feb 7, 2011
Dingo wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, I can't wait to take that new 3C train to downtown Cleveland to check it out!
The train is the rail system, not the 3C, which for all accounts is dead in the water in Ohio. Cleveland has a fantastic rail system, of which the Terminal Tower is the base for all incoming and outgoing trains. So don't make comments you don't have any knowledge about.
we want good jobs

Columbus, OH

#72 Feb 7, 2011
Sterling Silver wrote:
<quoted text>
"Casinos don't produce any wealth." Statement #1
"No, it does not count as 'value-added' production of wealth." Statement #2
"All I said is that casinos don't grow the economy." Statement #3
As any rational person can see, each of these sentence says something different...
They all say the same thing in slightly different ways. It seemed like you weren't getting it so I kept trying to rephrase my point.

We need value-added wealth production to grow the economy. Casinos don't produce that, therefore casninos don't grow the economy.

I don't know why you find that inconsistent.
Dingo

United States

#73 Feb 7, 2011
Judy wrote:
<quoted text>
The train is the rail system, not the 3C, which for all accounts is dead in the water in Ohio. Cleveland has a fantastic rail system, of which the Terminal Tower is the base for all incoming and outgoing trains. So don't make comments you don't have any knowledge about.
You're not big on sarcasm, are ya?

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