Showtime

San Gabriel, CA

#60799 Feb 15, 2013
sam wrote:
<quoted text>lol Show. Yea maybe I am stuck in time. However I do have the opportunity to see the present to. Many in here have not even witnessed the past to make that comparison. To answer all three answers in one. I agree with you on alot of points , more so on the comment of rule changes and era for sure. MJ was good for his time. However I will say it again, mentally these guys are no where near and never experienced what MJ went through at least not yet.Which is why I rate this guy way up there. Not even Kobe.I really don't see any of these guys close to what MJ accomplished in may aspects. I mentionen the age thing and correct my math.When Jordan entered the league you were no older than 5? No way you could understand by simply watching reruns on you tube or let alone pick up on others opinion with out watching earlier in his career. In fact what you probably witnessed was him getting older and even then he was that much better. His game changed. Dude went through hell and back before his team even gained respect. I could write a book. We will always come back to era regardless and there are major differences.Thats what makes it difficult to say MJ kobe lbj so on and so on is the best. Now let me ask you. Is it him as a person that gets under your skin? the fame? glory? what is it? you can't knock him down for his abilities I know that.
Sammy your missing what I am saying again, I dont knock his game, hes great, it wouldn't matter if played today he would be great regardless, I am just saying hes not as good as people say.......And key word you used, "accomplished" Pf course these players will not accomplish what Jordan did, As I mentioned he was the wilt chamberlain of his time, far superior to any other player around, I dont blame the NBA for using jordans fame, but they also created JOrdan rules to help him out more, I mean its ridiculous......so what if I was 5 when he came in, the era we are focusing on is the 90s, I was old enough to watch that, I remember what his game was.....If that is it then I dont think we need to go further , unless you have something new to add.
Showtime

San Gabriel, CA

#60800 Feb 15, 2013
sam wrote:
<quoted text>Truthfully though Show, When MJ entered the scene the Bird/Magic thing took alot of limelight from them. Its only finals that gave them that extra edge. Bird by the late 80's early 90's was done that gave him what 10 yrs and then Magic days were ending by the piston era late 80's. So they (magic and Bird) didn't pass much of a torch in my eyes. First 3-4 yrs in the 80's and that was it. So he has had the marketing and league at his will all along. Again I ask, is he faulted for that? billions of nba material was sold based on a guys success. If youare looking to ever rid that from ESPN , its not happening.
He added on to what Bird and Magic already provided, sure it made the NBA sexier to have JOrdan there, all 3 of them were special together, the 80s was a great time I agree, the 90s was nothing more than a one man show....Yeah of course ESPN will not let go of JOrdan, it makes for interesting sports talk, these guys need something to talk about, something to debate, all I am saying is me personally I am sick of Jordan, I feel the media has done noething more than stuff it down our throats . Please dont be fooled by JOrdan schooling a bunch of slower athletes, JOrdan was born probably 20 years too soon to have real competition, dude came out real early......80s and 90s were not ready to take on MJ.
Showtime

San Gabriel, CA

#60801 Feb 15, 2013
sam wrote:
If one thinks bouncing a ball, dunking, alleyoops, running like a freight train, and stats that look like a PHD graduate's marks, to prove you are the best. Think twice. Far from that.
Well like the media you twist my shit around, your making it worse than what I am saying, I lived it I was old enought witness his championships so lets get that out of the way. I saw him play plenty, and I am gonna stop right there, I just realized you were a Jordan fan at that time a long with many, thats the end of it, Jordan fans are some of the most biased people on earth lol.....Also my intention was not to start any debates, I was more like venting frustration, keep enjoying Jordan if you wish I really dont care, I have my own opinion.
Showtime

San Gabriel, CA

#60802 Feb 15, 2013
rrenault wrote:
<quoted text>
Well I know the team needs to open the locker room for the media after games, and on national tv games or playoffs some players need to go to the media room to deal with the press, who decides who goes out not sure, it's not the whole team to answer questions.
Well I guess you are super happy that this is Stern last season, who would you like as the new commissioner?
That I couldn't tell you, I have no idea who would make a good commissioner .....but yes I am happy STern is gone.

“Timshel”

Since: Jan 12

Tulsa, OK

#60803 Feb 15, 2013
rrenault wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually you are wrong that, Shaq and Webber are the one credit for that,not MJ
I've been wrong, I'll undoubtedly be wrong again but I ain't wrong about this. If my memory serves correctly, Shaq and Webber weren't even in the league when Jordan started wearing the longer, baggy shorts.

Not only do I remember this because I idolized MJ for B-ball but Google is a useful tool as well. Use it my friend. ;)
Showtime

San Gabriel, CA

#60804 Feb 15, 2013
Sorry guys I probably chose the wrong place to vent out my frustration about Jordan, I forgot there are JOrdan fans present and they will pick and claw at you for saying "blasphemy" Wasn't trying to start a war, my bad guys , keep enjoying Jordan .

“Timshel”

Since: Jan 12

Tulsa, OK

#60805 Feb 15, 2013
Showtime wrote:
<quoted text> Sammy your missing what I am saying again, I dont knock his game, hes great, it wouldn't matter if played today he would be great regardless, I am just saying hes not as good as people say.......And key word you used, "accomplished" Pf course these players will not accomplish what Jordan did, As I mentioned he was the wilt chamberlain of his time, far superior to any other player around, I dont blame the NBA for using jordans fame, but they also created JOrdan rules to help him out more, I mean its ridiculous......so what if I was 5 when he came in, the era we are focusing on is the 90s, I was old enough to watch that, I remember what his game was.....If that is it then I dont think we need to go further , unless you have something new to add.
Show...My bro...The Jordan rules WERE NOT created to help MJ, they were made to LIMIT and NULLIFY MJ.

You need to go watch how they used to basically TACKLE MJ going into the lane and while he was in the air. Those tactics would create all out brawls in todays game and players would miss entire seasons for it now. Jordan until he overcame the Pistons and the Knicks didn't have it easy at all. It was only after HE EARNED IT that he got favorable calls.

“Rough road ahead”

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#60806 Feb 15, 2013
_Jusayin_ wrote:
<quoted text>
I've been wrong, I'll undoubtedly be wrong again but I ain't wrong about this. If my memory serves correctly, Shaq and Webber weren't even in the league when Jordan started wearing the longer, baggy shorts.
Not only do I remember this because I idolized MJ for B-ball but Google is a useful tool as well. Use it my friend. ;)
Google what is that?

“Timshel”

Since: Jan 12

Tulsa, OK

#60807 Feb 15, 2013
Showtime wrote:
Sorry guys I probably chose the wrong place to vent out my frustration about Jordan, I forgot there are JOrdan fans present and they will pick and claw at you for saying "blasphemy" Wasn't trying to start a war, my bad guys , keep enjoying Jordan .
Dont apologize for saying what you feel. It's your right to vent amongst friends and if we were to take offense and blast you what kinda friends would we be?

We don't want to blast you anyway, we want you to come over to our side and see the Jordan we see then make up your mind.

“Timshel”

Since: Jan 12

Tulsa, OK

#60808 Feb 15, 2013
rrenault wrote:
<quoted text>
Google what is that?
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/shaun_p...
Showtime

San Gabriel, CA

#60809 Feb 15, 2013
_Jusayin_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Show...My bro...The Jordan rules WERE NOT created to help MJ, they were made to LIMIT and NULLIFY MJ.
You need to go watch how they used to basically TACKLE MJ going into the lane and while he was in the air. Those tactics would create all out brawls in todays game and players would miss entire seasons for it now. Jordan until he overcame the Pistons and the Knicks didn't have it easy at all. It was only after HE EARNED IT that he got favorable calls.
I made a mistake there, I think sammy had me a bit rattled, I found myself defending myself more than actually creating a good read, yup your right I forgot that scripture in the Jordan bible lol.... I dont know why I wrote that, I think watching tv and having the radio on doesn't help , you can dismiss that your right about that.
Showtime

San Gabriel, CA

#60810 Feb 15, 2013
_Jusayin_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Dont apologize for saying what you feel. It's your right to vent amongst friends and if we were to take offense and blast you what kinda friends would we be?
We don't want to blast you anyway, we want you to come over to our side and see the Jordan we see then make up your mind.
I Appreciate that, i just had enough of Jordan, I swore I would not get into more kobe Jordan talk, now it was lebron Jordan, when it is it gonna end lol, I just had enough of it, I personally dont believe in there being a player you can call greatest of all time, but thats my opinion, I think different eras make it difficult to determine that, I guess I am sick of hearing about JOrdans championships, when in my belief its not fair to todays athletes cause the NBA keeps changing.......well anyway I dont know how long I have known you, but I really try to stay clear of debates cause to me its nothing more than arguing, I just like to share my opinion.....Sammy I known him a lot longer thats why I thought he might just be toying with me cause he knows im sick of jordan lol.....its all good not important anyway.

“Rough road ahead”

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#60811 Feb 15, 2013
_Jusayin_ wrote:
<quoted text>
I've been wrong, I'll undoubtedly be wrong again but I ain't wrong about this. If my memory serves correctly, Shaq and Webber weren't even in the league when Jordan started wearing the longer, baggy shorts.
Not only do I remember this because I idolized MJ for B-ball but Google is a useful tool as well. Use it my friend. ;)
Hey guess what I just used that thing that you mentioned google, to watch video of 1992 finals, guess who is not wearing big shorts?

MJ his shorts are above his knees.
Funny thing is the next season webber wore huge baggy shorts as a Rookie for G.S. a trend he brought from playing at Michigan him and the Fab five.

Feel free to use your google video.

As I said it wasn't mj.:-)

“Timshel”

Since: Jan 12

Tulsa, OK

#60812 Feb 15, 2013
No problem Show...I'll just say this about Jordan and leave you be to see for yourself if and when you want to.

You talk of era's affecting one's judgement. People like to say to discount MJ that the talent level in the NBA was weaker than it is today which is ironic because the NBA of today was made by MJ from the way the players play to the refereeing and rules of today.

To my point, in today's game you can't hand check or double team whenever you want. In MJ's time you could and it was physical to a brutish nature most times. Granted today we have a plethora of good shut down defenders which wasn't necessarily the case in MJ's day BUT what MJ did have was 2 very good defenders he usually had to beat coming at him all the time.

Jordan IMO is the greatest ever because he dominated every team and every player in the NBA from the smallest to the tallest he destroyed all of them.

People say Kareem had the most unstoppable shot. Did Kareem have to sky-hook over guys 5-6 inches taller daily? No. Jordan had his fade away that he made over ANYBODY.

Lastly, about whether or not Jordan could beat Kobe or LBJ? I say yes. His mental approach and toughness is unparalleled. Couple that with his skills and physical abilities...? His game transcends because he was light years ahead then and we still see nobody has caught up today. Kobe's game is a mirror image of MJ's yet he's still nowhere near MJ and I love Kobe but I respect Kobe for being himself but remember, Kobe is the first to say MJ is the best. No question.

“Timshel”

Since: Jan 12

Tulsa, OK

#60813 Feb 15, 2013
rrenault wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey guess what I just used that thing that you mentioned google, to watch video of 1992 finals, guess who is not wearing big shorts?
MJ his shorts are above his knees.
Funny thing is the next season webber wore huge baggy shorts as a Rookie for G.S. a trend he brought from playing at Michigan him and the Fab five.
Feel free to use your google video.
As I said it wasn't mj.:-)
Ok RR. Based on a couple past comments you've made to me I have the feeling you're the type of person who always thinks they're right no matter what. So even though the world believes MJ was the first to wear the baggier, longer shorts(from the skin tight Dasie Dukes)in the NBA and I saw it for myself with my own two eyes, you're right.

CWebb DID bring in the "gangsta" style but only after MJ changed the style but whatever.

“Rough road ahead”

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#60814 Feb 16, 2013
_Jusayin_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok RR. Based on a couple past comments you've made to me I have the feeling you're the type of person who always thinks they're right no matter what. So even though the world believes MJ was the first to wear the baggier, longer shorts(from the skin tight Dasie Dukes)in the NBA and I saw it for myself with my own two eyes, you're right.
CWebb DID bring in the "gangsta" style but only after MJ changed the style but whatever.
Wait I can say the say thing about you....LOL

You sent me to google, I watched video from the 1992 finals mj had no long shorts, video of webber 1992/1993 rookie season long baggy shorts and you still telling me that he did only after MJ changed?
Webber wore his baggy shorts in Michigan duding his 1992 college season.

This is recorded on video.

Now who thinks his always right?...HA HA HA

Is not that I think I'm right it's on video!...lol
Showtime

San Gabriel, CA

#60815 Feb 16, 2013
_Jusayin_ wrote:
No problem Show...I'll just say this about Jordan and leave you be to see for yourself if and when you want to.
You talk of era's affecting one's judgement. People like to say to discount MJ that the talent level in the NBA was weaker than it is today which is ironic because the NBA of today was made by MJ from the way the players play to the refereeing and rules of today.
To my point, in today's game you can't hand check or double team whenever you want. In MJ's time you could and it was physical to a brutish nature most times. Granted today we have a plethora of good shut down defenders which wasn't necessarily the case in MJ's day BUT what MJ did have was 2 very good defenders he usually had to beat coming at him all the time.
Jordan IMO is the greatest ever because he dominated every team and every player in the NBA from the smallest to the tallest he destroyed all of them.
People say Kareem had the most unstoppable shot. Did Kareem have to sky-hook over guys 5-6 inches taller daily? No. Jordan had his fade away that he made over ANYBODY.
Lastly, about whether or not Jordan could beat Kobe or LBJ? I say yes. His mental approach and toughness is unparalleled. Couple that with his skills and physical abilities...? His game transcends because he was light years ahead then and we still see nobody has caught up today. Kobe's game is a mirror image of MJ's yet he's still nowhere near MJ and I love Kobe but I respect Kobe for being himself but remember, Kobe is the first to say MJ is the best. No question.
You had to get that off your chest didn't you lol...Look your entitled to your opinion, I am a reasonable person or at least I like to think so, I think it safe to say we are both a bit biased, we are only human so it happens that is why debates go on. Jordan came first so by the time kobe started to get good they already had a blue print in mind on how to stop kobe, maybe that is why kobe shoots 3s more than jordan does. Well obviously JOrdans numbers look nicer, his career looks nicer and it always will, but I think it certainly has something to do with the slower shorter players he went against, they say speed kills for a reason, pick your poison today. Jordan could hand check, todays guys cant, so it was easier for JOrdan to play defense, thats the flip side of it, Jordan was so far superior in his day its just not fair to go based on careers but you do as you please. The nba changed the rules to allow more flow on the offense, for the entertainment value.

Last thing, I can't take away who jordan is, or what he did he was excellent, but i can question his competition and that is not his fault, but I do blame the media for over hyping players to the point where it gets ridiculous, and people are scared to even approach saying anyone is better than Jordan. If I had to start a team it be Magic johnson that be my guy, but that is a whole other story, point is I dont think ther is a GOAT just in our own little opinions, there is no right or wrong.
Showtime

San Gabriel, CA

#60816 Feb 16, 2013
Anyway Back to todays NBA, the trade deadline is coming up, you guys think anything is gonna happen?

“Rough road ahead”

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#60817 Feb 16, 2013
Hey Show did you get to watch the interview with Mitch in time warner sportsnet, backstage lakers?

He talks injuries, coaching changed, he talks Pau,Howard, trade deadline and other things.

It was originally aired 02/13/13, not sure when it was actually recorded, but it touches very current events for the team.

“Rough road ahead”

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#60818 Feb 16, 2013
I was hearing on the radio, Jalen Rose talking about
the Lakers moving Howard before the trade deadline.

Lakers keeping D'antoni at the end of the season,keeping Pau if he wants to stay.

I'm sorry but he talk some much bs, he made some good points to back up his crap.

Lakers paying brown's salary and now d'antoni how he doesn't see the Lakers getting into a contract with new coach.

I believe he could be right as long as the Lakers move Howard before the trade deadline.
If they keep him I don't know, it may come down on
who they want to build around the coach or the player unless they managed to convince Howard to give D'antoni another shot.

I personally don't like most of what comes out Jalen mouth, most of the time it doesn't make sense, but he sells it like no other.

Plus if Mitch was being honest about what he said in his interview, I don't think the Lakers will make a move on the core of the team which according to him is Pau, Kobe, Nash and Howard.

But he did hint that role players are a possibility.

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