Yellow line is always out of bounds

Yellow line is always out of bounds

There are 44 comments on the Log Cabin Democrat story from Oct 7, 2008, titled Yellow line is always out of bounds. In it, Log Cabin Democrat reports that:

The speech hasn't changed in the seven years since NASCAR first delivered it during a 2001 driver's meeting at Daytona.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Log Cabin Democrat.

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#23 Oct 8, 2008
Nascartoon wrote:
<quoted text>Your certainly entitled to your opinion and I can respect your take on the incident. I however don't have to agree with any judgment you made or Nascar. In my judgment Regan had no choice but to wreck or drive down there. As for him passing high, I must disagree with that also. I believe Tony was doing everything he could to block him and going high would have been a very risky move. He could have found himself very easily in the wall.
Why were his only choices to wreck or drive down there?? Couldn't he have lifted just a little and pulled back in line behind Tony? He didn't HAVE to make the pass below the line.

Since: Mar 08

United States

#24 Oct 8, 2008
Regan is a rookie and he drove like a rookie..A veteran driver, like maybe cousin Carl or Gordon (either Jeff or Robby), would have tried to push Stewart out of the way and would have been cheered for doing so, because that's racing and that's what race fans cheer for.. Stewart won the race and that's all there is to it..

The next time Regan is in that situation, he will drive much differently and more power to him..

Since: Aug 08

Broadview Heights, OH

#25 Oct 8, 2008
Nascartoon wrote:
<quoted text>Your certainly entitled to your opinion and I can respect your take on the incident. I however don't have to agree with any judgment you made or Nascar. In my judgment Regan had no choice but to wreck or drive down there. As for him passing high, I must disagree with that also. I believe Tony was doing everything he could to block him and going high would have been a very risky move. He could have found himself very easily in the wall.
Hitting the wall? The whole track was open above Tony, the only way he could have hit the wall is if he went spinning for some reason.

You are indeed entitled to believe whatever you want, but you can't cite a rule and do it. The rule clearly says it's Nascar's opinion of what happened that matters. I look at it just as the rule for out of bounds in football. They don't allow a player who gets bumped out of bounds to come back onto the field of play and make a catch without having re-establishing himself inbounds. Otherwise teams would be using the out of bounds area all the time as a way to make catches since the defense isn't allowed to play there either. Or I could use the example of Robbie being black flagged at Montreal last year as an example of a driver crossing the finish line first without being declared the winner. Whether you like it or not, Nascar is the owner of the sport. They make the rules and they interpret the rules, nobody else really gets a say.
Mary

Richmond, VA

#26 Oct 8, 2008
Voice of Reality wrote:
NAPCAR is so full of crap, Johnny Benson improved his position two years ago in the truck race and NAPCAR stated he was forced down and if the checkered flag was in sight you COULD keep going. Now NAPCAR does another 180 and does with Reagan what it would not do with Benson, NAPCAR, much like Va. weather, if you do not like it, hang around and it will change.
Let me see if I can help you out a little bit, because there were actually was a few differences.

In the Truck race, Johnny had 2 wheels under the yellow line & it was right at the start/finish line at Daytona. In the Cup race, Regan's entire car was under the yellow line WAY before the start/finish line at Talladega.

The percentage of the car/truck under the yellow line & the area where the attempted pass started compared to where the start/finish line is located is a factor.
Voice of Reality wrote:
<quoted text>
What official and then please explain the Johnny Benson finish in the truck race a couple of years ago.
Let me explain the end of the 2007 Daytona Truck race as specific as possible.

Coming off turn 4, Jack Sprague & Johnny Benson used the draft to get by Travis Kvapil. Jack went to the high side & Kvapil tried to block him to no avail. Johnny then notices the bottom line was left open for him to try to get 2nd & maybe the win as well. When Johnny attempted to make the pass, Kvapil noticed that & then tried to block him knowing he'd probably lose the race to Sprague anyway. Kvapil's move made Benson take evasive action to the point that Kvapil's move got Benson under the yellow line right at the start/finish line. Sprague won the race & Benson did get 2nd from Kvapil.

“Old School Is Back. ”

Since: Jul 08

Bradenton, FL

#27 Oct 8, 2008
It was also a Truck race Yes still part of NASCAR but different Series does not carry over to the Sprint cup side.
whatever

La Grange, IL

#28 Oct 8, 2008
Voice of Reality wrote:
NAPCAR is so full of crap, Johnny Benson improved his position two years ago in the truck race and NAPCAR stated he was forced down and if the checkered flag was in sight you COULD keep going. Now NAPCAR does another 180 and does with Reagan what it would not do with Benson, NAPCAR, much like Va. weather, if you do not like it, hang around and it will change.
wouldn't the 2 different series have different standards and rules?

“Smoke Fan Forever!!!”

Since: Sep 07

Look to the Western Sky!!!!

#30 Oct 8, 2008
whatever wrote:
<quoted text>
wouldn't the 2 different series have different standards and rules?
That's absolutely brilliant!

(It seems like common sense doesn't it?)
Voice of Reality

Colonial Heights, VA

#32 Oct 8, 2008
GETALIFE wrote:
<quoted text>
News flash fool. Truck, Series, and Cup are all NASCAR but all three have different rules. Similar but different. If they were all the same they would all be on the track at the same time!!! Not to mention the fact that each of the tracks have some rules in place that other tracks do not. The only thing you said that was a true statement was "similar speeds".
My little man, actually your are quite wrong on most of your points, both Trucks and Cup cars run on that track and the out of bounds line is the same for both, it is in the application that NAPCAR falls short to be consistant. Have you ever been to a drivers meeting in either division? For your edification, only Dega nd Daytona have the yellow out of bounds rule and it is applies to all three NAPCAR divisions that run on the tracks.
During a drivers meeting three sets of rules are referenced, track rules which are different at all tracks about restart lines on the track, where the scoring loops are and in the Daytona, Dega instance the yellow line rule.
The second set of rules that are referenced are what are called the General Competition Rules, such as not being able to pass on the start of a race before crossing start finish and not being able to pass low on restarts until the start finish line is crossed.
The third set are the Specs that are set forward for construction of cars/trucks and drive train parts as well as body and frame specs.

I have been around racing most of my life as a driver, crew chief, spotter and all around mechanic/gofer.

I do not say that the 01 should not have had the win taken from him, however, to put the boy back to 18th was stupid.
Voice of Reality

Colonial Heights, VA

#33 Oct 8, 2008
whatever wrote:
<quoted text>
wouldn't the 2 different series have different standards and rules?
Not general competition rules, why would one series have to stay above the yellow line for safety and the other not? That would not make sense, would it?
Track rules are the same for all divisions that race the given track, the start finish line is the same, the blend line is the same and the scoring loops are the same.
The specs are different for all three, that is all.
GETALIFE

United States

#35 Oct 8, 2008
So Voice of Reality what does edification mean?? Who did you drive for? Who were you a crew cheif for and spotter ect. for? I for one, race dirt late models and sprint cars. I have raced just about every track from coast to coast. Very expensive but lots of fun. Before I raced my husband and his brother raced. Now my two kids race. I guess that makes me crew cheif and all around pit monkey. I will agree that 18th was a bad call. And for the record I'm a little woman!!
Nascartoon

Lakeville, MI

#36 Oct 8, 2008
team-shr wrote:
<quoted text>
Hitting the wall? The whole track was open above Tony, the only way he could have hit the wall is if he went spinning for some reason.
You are indeed entitled to believe whatever you want, but you can't cite a rule and do it. The rule clearly says it's Nascar's opinion of what happened that matters. I look at it just as the rule for out of bounds in football. They don't allow a player who gets bumped out of bounds to come back onto the field of play and make a catch without having re-establishing himself inbounds. Otherwise teams would be using the out of bounds area all the time as a way to make catches since the defense isn't allowed to play there either. Or I could use the example of Robbie being black flagged at Montreal last year as an example of a driver crossing the finish line first without being declared the winner. Whether you like it or not, Nascar is the owner of the sport. They make the rules and they interpret the rules, nobody else really gets a say.
I'm not sure what race you were watching, but I'll tell you what I saw. Regan started to go high and Tony went right with him to block, that's when Regan dove under him. I think his intention was to go under him from the start and the high move was just to get Tony up. As for your football analogy. That, in my opinion, supports a case for Regan winning, more than a case for Tony winning. Regan was forced below the yellow line, came back up, reestablished himself and won the race. Like I've said before and I'm sure will say many times again about every sport I watch. When a decision is made by officials, that I believe was a bad one, it will never get my support. I'll accept it, but I'll never agree with something I consider absolutely the wrong decision. People like to think that everyone that doesn't agree with the ruling Nascar made, must be Tony haters too. While I'm not a fan of Tony, I also don't have feelings of resentment every time he gets a break. I've got better things to do than go around hating Tony Stewart. Hell! I've got better things to do than even think about the guy. Sometimes things go your way, sometimes they don't. This time Tony got the call (I'm sure there have been plenty of times in his career when he hasn't.) My point here is simple: Tony got the win. He raced hard and smart for it and I'll not say anything different. Regardless, I know what I witnessed and will support what my eyes saw. I'm not trying to convince anyone here. People tend to believe whatever they choose to believe. Sometimes for reasons that are biased and not a true account of what happened. I've certainly been one of those at times, just as everyone here has. So, as always, for anyone that doesn't see this thing the way I did. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#37 Oct 8, 2008
Nascartoon wrote:
<quoted text>I'm not sure what race you were watching, but I'll tell you what I saw. Regan started to go high and Tony went right with him to block, that's when Regan dove under him. I think his intention was to go under him from the start and the high move was just to get Tony up. As for your football analogy. That, in my opinion, supports a case for Regan winning, more than a case for Tony winning. Regan was forced below the yellow line, came back up, reestablished himself and won the race. Like I've said before and I'm sure will say many times again about every sport I watch. When a decision is made by officials, that I believe was a bad one, it will never get my support. I'll accept it, but I'll never agree with something I consider absolutely the wrong decision. People like to think that everyone that doesn't agree with the ruling Nascar made, must be Tony haters too. While I'm not a fan of Tony, I also don't have feelings of resentment every time he gets a break. I've got better things to do than go around hating Tony Stewart. Hell! I've got better things to do than even think about the guy. Sometimes things go your way, sometimes they don't. This time Tony got the call (I'm sure there have been plenty of times in his career when he hasn't.) My point here is simple: Tony got the win. He raced hard and smart for it and I'll not say anything different. Regardless, I know what I witnessed and will support what my eyes saw. I'm not trying to convince anyone here. People tend to believe whatever they choose to believe. Sometimes for reasons that are biased and not a true account of what happened. I've certainly been one of those at times, just as everyone here has. So, as always, for anyone that doesn't see this thing the way I did. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Tony knew that the move up high was just a fake and suspected he was going to go low all along. That's why he didn't go that high off the bottom and was moving back down as soon as Regan did.

You don't have a problem with Tony blocking him high but you do when Tony blocked him low???

And Regan didn't reestablish himself behind Tony back up on the track and then make the pass...he advanced his position while he was below the yellow line.
Nascartoon

Lakeville, MI

#38 Oct 8, 2008
luvtonyseyes wrote:
<quoted text>
Tony knew that the move up high was just a fake and suspected he was going to go low all along. That's why he didn't go that high off the bottom and was moving back down as soon as Regan did.
You don't have a problem with Tony blocking him high but you do when Tony blocked him low???
And Regan didn't reestablish himself behind Tony back up on the track and then make the pass...he advanced his position while he was below the yellow line.
Once again, let me point out the obvious. I don't have a problem with Tony blocking him high, low, or in the middle. Tony was trying to do what he needed to do to win. However, I do believe he forced Regan to go below the line. I certainly don't expect Regan to just stop and say, "Okay, since I was forced below the line, let me just slow down and get back on the track and remove any chance of winning the race." I'll reiterate. I know what I saw with my eyes. Regan didn't ride along below the line for the entire lap. He went below and pretty much came right back up. Anyone who thinks he should have just slowed down and gave up any chance at victory, is certainly not reasonable enough to respond in any unbiased way. It comes down to one thing really. You either believe that Regan was forced down, or you believe he intended to pass Tony down there. I believe he was forced down there and in know way on earth, should he have to slow down and give up his shot at winning. Nascar made their decision and regardless of what anyone else thinks, I believe it was a poor one. Mike Helton came out after the race, with his big quote, about what was relayed to the drivers before the race. In essence it said: You can not race below the yellow, but you can also not force someone down below the yellow (which will be determined by the officials.) So why would Regan, who felt he had no choice but to go down there, not feel completely justified in keeping up his pace. I happen to agree with him completely. He was forced down and did exactly what he should have done. He certainly can't determine that Nascar is going to make the bad decision, that they made, afterward. If Nascar wanted to leave no doubt about this rule, they would have told the drivers, pre-race, no passing below the line ever, even if your forced down there. They didn't lay that out though, hence the different views people have of this incident.
Voice of Reality

Colonial Heights, VA

#39 Oct 8, 2008
GETALIFE wrote:
So Voice of Reality what does edification mean?? Who did you drive for? Who were you a crew cheif for and spotter ect. for? I for one, race dirt late models and sprint cars. I have raced just about every track from coast to coast. Very expensive but lots of fun. Before I raced my husband and his brother raced. Now my two kids race. I guess that makes me crew cheif and all around pit monkey. I will agree that 18th was a bad call. And for the record I'm a little woman!!
First, edification?, I hope you are not serious about that one, perhaps you should consult a dictionary before coming on here and exposing your lack of vocabulary.
Second, I drove in NASCAR for about five years, running asphalt at South Side Speedway, Langley, and Old Dominion at different times, on dirt we raced at what is now Virginia Motor Speedway and South Hampton Speedway.
In 1973 I pitted for Lennie Pond when we beat Darrel Waltrip for Rookie of the year in NASCAR.
As far as who I spotted for, mostly two brothers racing out of Va. who raced modified for the past ten years, however, when you spot on a regular basis and become friendly with other teams and spotters you often receive calls to spot for others when they need help, so I guess at different times I have spotted for over 50 different drivers on a part time basis.

Now that I have addressed my resume, what about yours, the names of your brothers, father and others who have raced. I am a great fan of both dirt late models and 410 wing sprint cars and have attended many tracks from Ohio to Penn, to the Carolina and Va. area. What tracks have you raced and who were your crew people?

I love and have been a part of racing for many years and have seen many types of racing from Micro Sprints at Lynda's Speedway to the World of Outlaws at Williams Grove, to the October Fast at Haggerstown.

My favorite tracks are Lincoln for dirt, Southern National for a beautiful local weekly track and Martinsville for a NASCAR track, with Bristol coming in a close second.

Remember, NASCAR is a big multi million dollar business, however, it is still a one family run organization that has trouble being even handed with the application of its own rules.

By the way, ever hear of Curtis Truex?

Since: Mar 08

United States

#40 Oct 9, 2008
The way I see it, there are two views of what happened...My view and the wrong view...lol..

Get over it because no matter how much we whine and argue, the race is over and done with..

Stewart has a trophy and Regan has a reason to turn him, if that situation comes up again..

The overall race was the best I've seen with the COT..

Since: Aug 08

Hudson, OH

#41 Oct 9, 2008
Nascartoon wrote:
<quoted text>Once again, let me point out the obvious. I don't have a problem with Tony blocking him high, low, or in the middle. Tony was trying to do what he needed to do to win. However, I do believe he forced Regan to go below the line. I certainly don't expect Regan to just stop and say, "Okay, since I was forced below the line, let me just slow down and get back on the track and remove any chance of winning the race." I'll reiterate. I know what I saw with my eyes. Regan didn't ride along below the line for the entire lap. He went below and pretty much came right back up. Anyone who thinks he should have just slowed down and gave up any chance at victory, is certainly not reasonable enough to respond in any unbiased way. It comes down to one thing really. You either believe that Regan was forced down, or you believe he intended to pass Tony down there. I believe he was forced down there and in know way on earth, should he have to slow down and give up his shot at winning. Nascar made their decision and regardless of what anyone else thinks, I believe it was a poor one. Mike Helton came out after the race, with his big quote, about what was relayed to the drivers before the race. In essence it said: You can not race below the yellow, but you can also not force someone down below the yellow (which will be determined by the officials.) So why would Regan, who felt he had no choice but to go down there, not feel completely justified in keeping up his pace. I happen to agree with him completely. He was forced down and did exactly what he should have done. He certainly can't determine that Nascar is going to make the bad decision, that they made, afterward. If Nascar wanted to leave no doubt about this rule, they would have told the drivers, pre-race, no passing below the line ever, even if your forced down there. They didn't lay that out though, hence the different views people have of this incident.
I don't disagree that Regan felt he was right. Unfortunately for him, he was wrong. The rule doesn't give the wiggle room he thought it had. The rule is simply stated that you can't advance your position below the line, it doesn't matter whether you are forced there or not. It doesn't matter if you're on the last lap ot not. There may have been times in the past that they chose to not enforce the rule, I realize they aren't always consistent. But at the same time, as a driver you can't go into a race thinking that you can break a rule and not get called on it. Particularly when you break the rule at the end of a chase race. The rule for penalizing a driver for forcing someone below the line is much more gray since its hard to really say what that means. I'm not sure I've ever seen them penalize a driver for causing someone to go below the line, I know I've seen several times that they've penalized the passing below the yellow.

Bottom line, I don't understand what you are disagreeing with. I agree that it's asking a lot to ask a driver to hold back, but that's exactly what the yellow line rule is all about. It is saying that you need to quit pressing the issue as soon as you drop down there. It may be difficult and it may seem wrong, but the intent is to prevent drivers from being hurt due to accidents. As soon as you open up gray areas you'll get more and more action happening there. If you allow offense to happen there you'll need to allow defense as well meaning that if it's ok to pass there it should also be ok to block there.

Since: Aug 08

Hudson, OH

#42 Oct 9, 2008
Pegasus_Flying wrote:
The way I see it, there are two views of what happened...My view and the wrong view...lol..
Get over it because no matter how much we whine and argue, the race is over and done with..
Stewart has a trophy and Regan has a reason to turn him, if that situation comes up again..
The overall race was the best I've seen with the COT..
I'm not sure why he'd do that. You can be black flagged for rough driving as well. Regan should just add it to his lessons and relook at how he should have made that pass. The worst thing for him is that he went away from the race thinking he'd won. It's hard to learn if you think you were right in the first place.

“Old School Is Back. ”

Since: Jul 08

Bradenton, FL

#43 Oct 9, 2008
With time Regan will realize he should have made the move down the back. Instead he chose to push Stewart down the backstretch. He could have moved high Menard would have followed and they could have passed him coming into 3 ans Stewart would fade back to 3rd He probably could not block as well on the back lot more area to cover and it would have been a disadvantage for him. Regan picked the wrong spot to try and pass. It just didn't work out for him. Lesson learned now.
love_spell

United States

#44 Oct 9, 2008
GO FASTER I HEAR BANJOS wrote:
People keep bringing this up and for what reason? It's over and done with, Tony won and Smith didn't, regardless of how much he cried. NASCAR made the statement and that's the end of it. Let it go. It's not going to change the results of the race.
phoney stewart didnt win!

nascar gave him that race.

“All hail...”

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#45 Oct 9, 2008
love_spell wrote:
<quoted text>
phoney stewart didnt win!
nascar gave him that race.
Whah-whah-whah! LOL!

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