Congrats Elliott!!

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“RIP Daddy 1/6/2010”

Since: Jan 08

Johnstown, PA

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#21
Jun 15, 2009
 
Wondering are you fan of Elliotts or not because you only seem to be negative about him and to be honest it makes me mad sometimes. Hell give the man a break he did an awsome job this weekend. 1. he finished awsome,2 he didnt wreck anyone,3 he didnt get wrecked,4 he didnt blow up,5 he DIDNT RUN OUT OF GAS!!!!
Wondering

United States

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#22
Jun 15, 2009
 
Sassy,
If all I wanted to read and discuss about Sadler was the fluff/at-a-boys opinions and not be realistic, I'd be posting on the Sadler Fan Club board. Fortunately this place is not that place, but you might like it. That being said, I do expect more from him than most, but thats probably because he stole my favorite driver's ride at Yates and almost single handedly destroyed that race team. Anyone that Robert Yates feels has the skills to replace Ricky Rudd should have higher expectations and while I think he is a great guy, he is not anywhere close to the class of Ricky.

So now you know.
William K

Charlotte, NC

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#23
Jun 15, 2009
 

Judged:

1

Wondering wrote:
Sassy,
I do expect more from him than most, but thats probably because he stole my favorite driver's ride at Yates and almost single handedly destroyed that race team. Anyone that Robert Yates feels has the skills to replace Ricky Rudd should have higher expectations and while I think he is a great guy, he is not anywhere close to the class of Ricky.
So now you know.
IMO Robert Yates fooled alot of people on how "great" he was. Ricky Rudd was a great guy and a really great driver but even Ricky found out the hard way how "great" Robert was.

Ricky was out long before Sadler came into the picture, they just didn't blab about it or have Jayski digging through people's trash as bad back then.

I did then and still believe now Robert Yates did RYR in all by himself, it was called Robert Yates Racing for a reason. One of my favorites was when Robert tried to blame Eddie D'Hondt.

“RIP Daddy 1/6/2010”

Since: Jan 08

Johnstown, PA

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#24
Jun 15, 2009
 
Wondering wrote:
Sassy,
If all I wanted to read and discuss about Sadler was the fluff/at-a-boys opinions and not be realistic, I'd be posting on the Sadler Fan Club board. Fortunately this place is not that place, but you might like it. That being said, I do expect more from him than most, but thats probably because he stole my favorite driver's ride at Yates and almost single handedly destroyed that race team. Anyone that Robert Yates feels has the skills to replace Ricky Rudd should have higher expectations and while I think he is a great guy, he is not anywhere close to the class of Ricky.
So now you know.
RYR was going down the shitter when Sadler went there. After Davey died and Ernie was hurt I think it screwed Roberts head up. He destroyed that team himself. Sure Ricky was a good driver but if he was so great he wouldnt have lost that ride and honestly what has he really done since then. Not a whole alot. Sorry but Ricky should retire as the older guys have done. And I thought Eddie was a real jerk, but now to sit back ans see what has happened I realize it wasnt all him.

Sure I could say that I cant stand any driver who has driven the 43 car since Richard retired but for the most part that would be a lie. I have liked most of the drivers of the 43 car, other then Richard I would say the late Bobby Hamilton was and always will be the best other then Richard.
Edwin Perkins

Ennis, TX

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#25
Jun 16, 2009
 
This is revisionist history and way Sadler fans are laughed at in the NA$CAR community. Well, maybe the only driver who fans get laughed at more, are JR fans!
sassy4smoke wrote:
<quoted text>
RYR was going down the shitter when Sadler went there.

RYR had both cars in the top ten in final points the previous 3 seasons. thats hardly going down the shitter and in fact an improvement from the years before that.
After Davey died and Ernie was hurt I think it screwed Roberts head up. He destroyed that team himself.

After Davie died, RYR won a CUP. And Ernie's car began to perform better after he left the team.
Sure Ricky was a good driver but if he was so great he wouldnt have lost that ride and honestly what has he really done since then. Not a whole alot. Sorry but Ricky should retire as the older guys have done.
He did retire. But how did he 'lose' his ride? Oh yeah, he had Sadler go behind his back and negotiate WHILE under contract, and WHILE Ricky was running in the top 10 in points. Ricky needed a little time after his back injury to decide if he could race full time the next season. Ricky should have sued just as Elliott did. The two cases are pretty similar if you think about it.
And I thought Eddie was a real jerk, but now to sit back ans see what has happened I realize it wasnt all him.
It was Eddie that give Elliott his out clause which enabled him to bolt to GEM in the first place.
Sure I could say that I cant stand any driver who has driven the 43 car since Richard retired but for the most part that would be a lie. I have liked most of the drivers of the 43 car, other then Richard I would say the late Bobby Hamilton was and always will be the best other then Richard.
Thats nice I guess.

Since: Feb 09

United States

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#26
Jun 16, 2009
 
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
His career average finish at road courses is 18th, that does not make Sadler a top road course driver at all. But I guess it is better than his over Cup average finish of 23rd if you have to look forward to something.
How about putting a full month of good finishes together first? That way we can honestly talk about improvement.
I was referring to his recent average finishes at Infineon.

Here is the top 10 drivers in average finish over the last 5 races there:

Juan Montoya-3.5 2 races
Clint Bowyer-8 3 races
Jeff Gordon-9.0 5 races
Gregg Biffle-9.4 5 races
Ryan Newman- 10.4 5 races
Elliott Sadler-11.4 5 races
Tony Stewart-12.0 5 races
Mark martin-12.0 3 races..none last 2 years
Jeff Burton-12.4 5 races
Kyle Busch-15.0 4 races

He would have the 3nd best average finish (8.4) if Nascar had not held them so long under the Red flag last year, allowing his very slowly leaking tire time to deflate too much before the Green-White-Checker finish! That took him from a great 4th place finish and his first top 5 on a road course and caused him to fall back to 19th before the tire blow at the finish line!

I am hoping he can run that well again this year and then be able to bring it home this time?
William K

Charlotte, NC

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#27
Jun 16, 2009
 
Edwin Perkins wrote:
It was Eddie that give Elliott his out clause which enabled him to bolt to GEM in the first place.
<quoted text>Thats nice I guess.
I thought you had some knowledge of how business works, but that quote shows me you are clueless and just a jaded Ricky Rudd Fan.

Mars, RYR (Robert Yates Racing not Eddie Racing) and Elliott Sadler put that contract together. Eddie doesn't write contacts. That would mean Robert had at least 3 lawyers look at it and explain what was going on. If you think he had "no idea" what was in the contract then Robert Yates would be the dumbest owner in NASCAR history. As an owner you know everything that is in your driver's contract. Robert had outs as well but because Sadler exercised it first Robert cried like a little girl in public so people would feel sorry for him. It was Robert who gave RFR engines without RFR giving him any help on setting up the cars, even though Robert cried that Jack was supposed to. Bad business decisions and failure to do anything but engines are what killed Robert Yates Race, that was all Robert's fault.

As for Ricky Rudd, he talked bad about Robert for years after that. Not because Sadler came in but because of what Robert did to him.

Since: Feb 09

United States

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#28
Jun 16, 2009
 
ES's finishes the last 5 year s at Infineon:

2004-10th
2005-6th
2006-8th
2007-14th
2008-19th

Oh yes...he finished 14th in the 2007 Infineon race only because of not having the fuel mileage other teams did? They were running well enough to finish top 5 if it was not for that? After last week, I say they will have a plan in place so a good run will not be ruined by fuel mileage this time?
jmo

United States

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#29
Jun 16, 2009
 
in the past 5 of last 7races at Infenion (sp) Elliott has finished in the top 15, and five of those were top 5's.
also in the last 10 road races (both Infineon and Watkins Glen) Elliott is second most in points-he trails Tony Stewart, and finished 15th or better in combined last 10 races.
so hes pretty good at road coarses.
as far as ryr deal...I think ryrs cars were less than keeping up with how other teams cars were
and DJ and Elliott both got frustrated that ryr
was not willing to change.
when robert left, even doug yates who took over said they were behind and had hoped to get the cars more aero and all that to be competative when they had the new guys driving...
i dont know about all the other ricky rudd, davey and all that....
i just hope that elliott has a good race weekend
at infineon!
Edwin Perkins

Ennis, TX

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#30
Jun 16, 2009
 
William K wrote:
<quoted text> I thought you had some knowledge of how business works, but that quote shows me you are clueless and just a jaded Ricky Rudd Fan.
Mars, RYR (Robert Yates Racing not Eddie Racing) and Elliott Sadler put that contract together. Eddie doesn't write contacts. That would mean Robert had at least 3 lawyers look at it and explain what was going on. If you think he had "no idea" what was in the contract then Robert Yates would be the dumbest owner in NASCAR history. As an owner you know everything that is in your driver's contract. Robert had outs as well but because Sadler exercised it first Robert cried like a little girl in public so people would feel sorry for him. It was Robert who gave RFR engines without RFR giving him any help on setting up the cars, even though Robert cried that Jack was supposed to. Bad business decisions and failure to do anything but engines are what killed Robert Yates Race, that was all Robert's fault.
As for Ricky Rudd, he talked bad about Robert for years after that. Not because Sadler came in but because of what Robert did to him.
interesting, i just remember this quote from Robert

[quote]Former general manager, Eddie D'Hondt, who was fired several months ago, doesn't escape Yates's ire either. Yates blames D'Hondt for the "out" clause that gave Sadler, and RYR, a way to break the contract if the team didn't perform. I suspect that many other driver's contracts also have similar clauses, but Yates says,

"I didn't like the contract. It wasn't written by a professional."[quote/]

And yes, robert made a huge mistake if he as owner was not aware of such a clause.. But I did get a chuckle out of robert crying like a little girl, just another comparison to Jan when Elliott was doing much the same thing, only he used his lawyer and not the press.

Eddie tried to run RYR the 'Roush' way, and that just won't work with a two car team.
William K

Charlotte, NC

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#31
Jun 16, 2009
 
Edwin Perkins wrote:
<quoted text>
interesting, i just remember this quote from Robert
[quote]Former general manager, Eddie D'Hondt, who was fired several months ago, doesn't escape Yates's ire either. Yates blames D'Hondt for the "out" clause that gave Sadler, and RYR, a way to break the contract if the team didn't perform. I suspect that many other driver's contracts also have similar clauses, but Yates says,
"I didn't like the contract. It wasn't written by a professional."[quote/]
And yes, robert made a huge mistake if he as owner was not aware of such a clause.. But I did get a chuckle out of robert crying like a little girl, just another comparison to Jan when Elliott was doing much the same thing, only he used his lawyer and not the press.
Eddie tried to run RYR the 'Roush' way, and that just won't work with a two car team.
I think the problem was you only remember that quote. I am not sure but I think Mars exercised their option out as well, just not that same year. Robert phoned it in those last years anyway. He had lawyers look at that stuff and help create the contract, all 3 parties did. They all 3 had outs, don't think for a minute he wouldn't replace Elliott just like he did Ricky Rudd.

Like I said, he knew what was in the contract but it was better to look stupid and "not know anything" than look stupid and not have anyone to blame. Robert liked blaming people for stuff, the buck didn't stop at the top at RYR.

As for the stuff in January, how is it that Elliott Sadler knows more about contracts than owners, he doesn't.
wow

Angola

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#32
Jun 16, 2009
 
My history of NASCAR knowledge doesn't go back this far. Still it seems that as an owner you would review any multi million dollar contracts and ensure that they were written by "professionals". As they are wordy and complex you would also ensure that they were reviewed by several attorneys. Based on that statement, Yates has himself to blame in the end. Although I'm sure it's a tough situation when you entrust someone else to negotiate contracts, and you feel they don't live up to the expectations you put forth. Eddie let him down, and I'm sure Yates is absolutely justified in sharing the blame with him.

I can't imagine that Elliott was the one who established contact with Yates with a conspiracy to get Ricky out of a ride. It all boils down to business. Unfortunately you can't always run a business with your heart, you have to take emotion completely out of it. In most professional settings and negotiations, no one is clued in to the details 100% and it is usually a progressive setting. I'm sure Yates didn't initially present the 38 car to Elliott as a sure thing. Negotiations usually begin with a let's wait and see scenario. They feel out a situation, play on several scenarios, and that's how inerest is generated and opportunities are created. I'm sure Elliott wasn't clued in or made aware of Ricky's knowledge (or maybe lack thereof in this situation). I really have no idea how this played out, or if I'm even close. I just know that you can't blame the replacement when someone loses a job. It boils down to the management and the owners who make the decisions. Robert Yates did essentially dig his own grave, so to speak, with Eddie's help. Their professional practices didn't improve. Dale Jarrett and Elliott's actions in leaving are a clear indication of this.

As far as this winter. If Elliott were in the wrong, Gillett would have stuck to his guns and it would've been far more embarrassing for Elliott. I'm sure after Elliott brought his attorneys in to review the situation, Gillett ensured that their legal teams reviewed it from their end as well. Gillett is well practiced in the business of negotiating sport contracts. They clearly couldn't justify their actions and were forced to fulfill their contractual obligations in keeping Elliott in the 19. I think Elliott took a smart and professional approach in taking it to his attorney, and not blowing up the media over it. That's very commendable and I think he generated a lot of respect from his competitors and others in the industry for this. In the aftermath he spoke optimisically about the organization and that showed a lot of professional integrity that so many young professionals (especially athletes) do not demonstrate.
Wondering

United States

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#33
Jun 16, 2009
 
Edwin Perkins wrote:
This is revisionist history and way Sadler fans are laughed at in the NA$CAR community. Well, maybe the only driver who fans get laughed at more, are JR fans!
<quoted text>
RYR had both cars in the top ten in final points the previous 3 seasons. thats hardly going down the shitter and in fact an improvement from the years before that.
<quoted text>
After Davie died, RYR won a CUP. And Ernie's car began to perform better after he left the team.
<quoted text> He did retire. But how did he 'lose' his ride? Oh yeah, he had Sadler go behind his back and negotiate WHILE under contract, and WHILE Ricky was running in the top 10 in points. Ricky needed a little time after his back injury to decide if he could race full time the next season. Ricky should have sued just as Elliott did. The two cases are pretty similar if you think about it.
<quoted text>
It was Eddie that give Elliott his out clause which enabled him to bolt to GEM in the first place.
<quoted text>Thats nice I guess.
You got it about 95% right. Ricky told Robert that he needed more time to evaluate his back well early in the 2003 season to know if he could give 100% the next season. Robert had already made up his mind though and started his courtship of Sadler, and even had FATBACK's endorsement until fatback tested with Sadler after the whole deal went down. Then FATBACK left Yates as well just weeks after the test at Kentucky where Elliott had lap times significantly slower than Ricky's test just a week before IN THE SAME CAR! The red flags were already flying.

But Ricky had no leg to stand on to sue for his ride, as his contract expired at the end of the 2003 season.

“RACING RULES ”

Since: Jan 07

Longview, Tx

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#34
Jun 16, 2009
 
WOW, it is amazing how the inner, unseen workings of the business go.
UNCW Girl

United States

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#35
Jun 18, 2009
 
GoDaleJR wrote:
<quoted text>what race were you watching?
I meant to say top 15.

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