Is Jimmie Johnson Killing NASCAR?

Is Jimmie Johnson Killing NASCAR?

There are 116 comments on the Bleacher Report story from Oct 25, 2009, titled Is Jimmie Johnson Killing NASCAR?. In it, Bleacher Report reports that:

Five races left until the end of the season, or is it fives races left until the death of NASCAR according to some of the fans who are already writing their own obituaries? After cruising the Internet's highways and byways taking in some of the small talk about the current state of the sport, which I did find kind of amusing at times, I couldn't ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Bleacher Report.

mike also stutters

Westborough, MA

#21 Oct 26, 2009
it did change. and why? becuz the fans were going apeshitt complaining that the OLD system was... boring. it was. but you are obviously easily bored.
tired wrote:
It's getteing really old and boring. i've watche for years and for the first time can see my self not watching. the point system or somethung has to change.

“lets go matt!!!!!”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#22 Oct 26, 2009
yes he is if nascar doesn't start doing something people that aren't jimmie fans they will stop watching and then nascar will go bankrupt

Since: Apr 07

United States

#23 Oct 27, 2009
mike also stutters wrote:
it did change. and why? becuz the fans were going apeshitt complaining that the OLD system was... boring. it was. but you are obviously easily bored.
<quoted text>
What NASCAR did is actually adopt a format that mirrors what other major sports do.

It's called seeding.

We enjoy the NCAA Basketball format because in March everything starts over. The Chase is championship tournament. Those teams with the best rankings may have an easier road to the National Championship, but every team can run the table and win. The most successful teams have an easier road, but they must still maintain their momentum to win the championship.

Same as in the NBA, MLB, or NFL championship. Your ranking in the Chase is like a home field advantage. If you cannot sustain your momentum, or raise your performance, you lose.

That creates more interest in the REGULAR season, and makes every race in the Chase more important.

Say what you will about the Chase format, but more people PAY ATTENTION to the last ten races of the year now more than ever. You may HATE it, but you PAY ATTENTION, and that is the beauty of it. If you didn't care, you wouldn't complain.

The beauty of the Chase is that it provokes ATTENTION, positive OR negative. Sometimes I hate what happens in the NFL, BUT I DON'T STOP WATCHING it!

I may Bit*h about the format, but for some reason, my TV is still tuned in every week, so NASCAR is the beneficiary of your attention, and that is why the format works. People used to tune in to see Earnhardt wreak somebody, just as many people tuned in to see him wreak.

Bottom line - THEY TUNED IN.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#24 Oct 27, 2009
There is just one problem with your logic skippy. Ratings are in the toliet. There are empty seats in the stands. People aren't tuning in, they aren't paying attention, they focusing elsewhere. There is nothing to tune into anymore.
MarkL5 wrote:
<quoted text>
I may Bit*h about the format, but for some reason, my TV is still tuned in every week, so NASCAR is the beneficiary of your attention, and that is why the format works. People used to tune in to see Earnhardt wreak somebody, just as many people tuned in to see him wreak.
Bottom line - THEY TUNED IN.

Since: Apr 07

United States

#25 Oct 27, 2009
menards wrote:
There is just one problem with your logic skippy. Ratings are in the toliet. There are empty seats in the stands. People aren't tuning in, they aren't paying attention, they focusing elsewhere. There is nothing to tune into anymore.
<quoted text>
Look Bunkie!

Don't confuse a RECESSED economy with lack of fanbase, and this time of year, NASCAR has to deal with America's other major obsession called the NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE.

NASCAR still commands over 70 million fans - second only in total numbers to the NFL, so pah-leeeeeeZe. Save the NASCAR is tanking mojo for the idiots who buy that Obama was born in Kenya.

“How We Roll”

Since: Nov 08

Area 51, Nevada

#26 Oct 27, 2009
MarkL5 wrote:
<quoted text>
Look Bunkie!
Don't confuse a RECESSED economy with lack of fanbase, and this time of year, NASCAR has to deal with America's other major obsession called the NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE.
NASCAR still commands over 70 million fans - second only in total numbers to the NFL, so pah-leeeeeeZe. Save the NASCAR is tanking mojo for the idiots who buy that Obama was born in Kenya.
Well said. I could only imagine how good or bad the sport is actually doing, but then again I couldn't care less how disgruntled fans see the success of the sport. Its good for me, its on TV, and Im gonna be enjoying every minute of it!

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#27 Oct 28, 2009
Simply put you cant say people are tuning in when they are clearly not. TV ratings are down across the board for the entire season, so you cant blame it on the NFL. There is an extreme downward trend in NASCAR popularity. If you want to put a liberal spin on it blaming everything else under the sun while ignoring the facts. Be my guest. Bottom line Na$car killed Na$car...

Inconsistant start times
Too many commercials
Rigged racing
Car of tommorrow
Painful commentary

All are direct reasons for the downfall of Nascar. NOT the economy, george bush, or anything else you want to blame.
MarkL5 wrote:
<quoted text>
Look Bunkie!
Don't confuse a RECESSED economy with lack of fanbase, and this time of year, NASCAR has to deal with America's other major obsession called the NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE.
NASCAR still commands over 70 million fans - second only in total numbers to the NFL, so pah-leeeeeeZe. Save the NASCAR is tanking mojo for the idiots who buy that Obama was born in Kenya.

Since: Apr 07

United States

#28 Oct 28, 2009
menards wrote:
Simply put you cant say people are tuning in when they are clearly not. TV ratings are down across the board for the entire season, so you cant blame it on the NFL. There is an extreme downward trend in NASCAR popularity. If you want to put a liberal spin on it blaming everything else under the sun while ignoring the facts. Be my guest. Bottom line Na$car killed Na$car...
Inconsistant start times
Too many commercials
Rigged racing
Car of tommorrow
Painful commentary
All are direct reasons for the downfall of Nascar. NOT the economy, george bush, or anything else you want to blame.
<quoted text>
Promoters are STILL making a lot of money.
TV is still making a lot of money.
Teams are still making a lot of money.
The sanction is as rich as it has ever been.

You fail to realize something...

In the boom period between the late 90's up until this economy started tanking, NASCAR grew like no other sport in WORLD history.

In short - NASCAR has a long way to fall. Problem is, it has fallen a little bit your you equate a push in the chest, with a Tyson right hook!

So what... if the ratings continue to fall, what does it mean? Does it mean that advertisers are going to pull their adds from NASCAR programming that reaches 50 million instead of 60?

Does it mean that Indianapolis will be dropped from the Cup schedule because it draws only 250 thousand, instead of 300k for the Brickyard 400?

The profit margin for NASCAR is still only surpassed by Formula 1 in total revenue in motorsports. But understand that NASCAR's series are domestic, making it one of a kind in all of world racing.

The only people crying about ratings and attendance are fans like you who want to see NASCAR fail. "The NASCAR Deathwatch!"

You don't NASCAR? Great, this is still America and last I checked, there is plenty of things to do in this great land! Go get yourself a model rocket, buy a Wi system and lose 20lbs, invest in a Karraoke machine, start breeding rabbits, or maybe you too can become the latest genious to come up with a new Stockcar league, that cures the ills of... Let me see how you put it... oh yeah - "Inconsistant start times, too many commercials, rigged racing, painful commentary."

Well... Why don't you go to FOX, ESPN and TNT and tell them that you won't watch unless they address the issues of start times, the amount of advertising and painful commentary. I would actually love you see you complain when they cut back on advertising because the race you want to see is blacked out due to PAY PER VIEW.

As for "rigged racing." Go see a shrink.

The easiest thing for anyone to do, is point at a sporting event or league and say it fixed! Example? Tim Donaghy, the ex NBA ref who shaved points. Suddenly, the WHOLE league was dirty because of one idiot. Problem is, for all the crapola you hear from guys like you, in the history of NASCAR, not one official, driver, or team member has ever pointed the finger at a rigged race.

Reason? I'm glad you asked.

To be continued...

“How We Roll”

Since: Nov 08

Area 51, Nevada

#29 Oct 28, 2009
menards wrote:
Simply put you cant say people are tuning in when they are clearly not. TV ratings are down across the board for the entire season, so you cant blame it on the NFL. There is an extreme downward trend in NASCAR popularity. If you want to put a liberal spin on it blaming everything else under the sun while ignoring the facts. Be my guest. Bottom line Na$car killed Na$car...
Inconsistant start times
Too many commercials
Rigged racing
Car of tommorrow
Painful commentary
All are direct reasons for the downfall of Nascar. NOT the economy, george bush, or anything else you want to blame.
<quoted text>
Unless you have the statistics for all this - some actual scientific data, then its just opinion and speculation on which you draw your conclusions.

You would need to take a poll straight from the people, not just from a forum, not just from the track, not just from TV viewers, but all of them. Then you can get a real idea of what people believe is most important to draw their attention and what they believe is least exciting about it, in comparison to other seasons... ya know? Unless you have collected this data or read from a reliable source who has, then it's speculation.

As far as this all goes, you can collect weather stats and say "Its rainier than it has ever been, so it must be the weather."

“How We Roll”

Since: Nov 08

Area 51, Nevada

#30 Oct 28, 2009
What I think is killing NASCAR if it is indeed 'dying' is a wide number of things which individually would not be overly-threatening to attendance, viewership, etc, but when combined, has a bigger effect.

Like, if you ask people who watch on TV and NASCAR broadcasts are jumping all over to different stations that a wide range of people don't get, viewership will be down, because of it. They may even lose interest in trying to catch races because they can't follow the season completely. However, if it was on a nationwide public broadcast, it stands to reason, more people can follow the season and watch every race, so viewership will peak.

If you follow because you're a fan of a specific driver - that driver goes to some other team and isn't doing well, those viewers lose interest, and may not put a high priority on watching anymore...

Economy being what it is - people may be working more to make ends meet and that takes priority over catching races, and definately drops the probability of these people to buy tickets...

Its a combination of reasons which hurts NASCAR. You can't point the finger at just one reason and put all the blame on just that. The 48 team being dominant hurts, but other teams not being able to catch him are also to blame for his dominance. So its dominance in general. Its the Point system which creates huge losses that widen the point spread so much you can't recover from one bad race. Its favorite drivers having a slump. Its the economy. Its people on forums discussing it so much that it has the undesired effect of dropping moral for those who want to see NASCAR remain successful. It's NASCAR being suspected of throwing bogus cautions and penalties. It's also flakey fans who complain and whine and generally provide unwelcome company. And while we're at it, lets blame the manufacturers of tires and engines and anything else that fails on a car...

Since: Apr 07

United States

#31 Oct 28, 2009
Yo Menards!

When last I left you, I was going to mention fixing races...

Interesting topic. I have talked to different individs over the years who have accused NASCAR and other sports leagues of fixing events. Its a thought-provoking concept, but let me assure you of one thing...

NOTHING endangers the end of an empire like scandal.

No sports league can handle it. This is why the NFL, NBA and MLB do not have teams in Las Vegas. This is why Pete Rose may never see the Hall of Fame and this is why the NBA wanted ex-referee Tim Donaghy to be convicted to the fullest after he was found to be shaving points.

The relationship between sports leagues and it fans is a public trust. The public trusts the leagues to present them with competition based on talent, and preparation. Otherwise you get the WWE.
BTW... people don't gamble on the WWE.

They do gamble on NASCAR, as they do any other major league sport. Gambling aside, let's look at how NASCAR is structured.

NASCAR/Sanction
Tracks/Promoters
Teams/Free Agents
Advertisers/Sponsors/Marketing partners
Media/Advertising support

A sanction basically provides rules and rules infrastructure (officials).

Tracks/Promoters provide the venue for sanction events.

Teams are not owned by the sanction. They actually pay a fee and conform to the rules for the right to compete.

Advertisers throw their money at - Teams, Tracks and Media to the tune of millions of dollars per year. Some at all three entites.

Media pays a fee to the sanction, and to tracks for the right to broadcast those events presented by the sanction and promoters.

If you are going to fix an event, you have to make sure of one of two things...

1. That everybody I just mentioned is either on the same page or...

2. That one one of those entites is in on the fix.

Now, I am sure that you are probably talking about a random phantom caution flag, or something like that but that does not constitue a fix, that constitutes NASCAR being guilty of trying to put on a more competitive show.

If that case, maybe you have a point, but then if you do that, you also have to understand that officials in other sports do the same thing. Not all calls by offcials in other sports are necessisary calls. We all know this.

When you are successful, half the world is happy with you. On the other hand, the other half could not care less about you, or they want to see you fail in the worst way, and they will point out any fault, any incident, any PERCIEVED gaff to make you look like you are the WWE.

Back to my basic point...

Conspiracies between sanction/promoters/teams/spons ors/media are IMPOSSIBLE to pull off because all of these components invest in the integrity of the sport. Their very ability to profit depends on that integrity.

NASCAR would be a fool to gamble with it. Any sanction would.

Just ask Pete Rose or Tim Donaghy.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#32 Oct 28, 2009
MarkL5 wrote:
Now, I am sure that you are probably talking about a random phantom caution flag, or something like that but that does not constitue a fix, that constitutes NASCAR being guilty of trying to put on a more competitive show.
If that case, maybe you have a point, but then if you do that, you also have to understand that officials in other sports do the same thing. Not all calls by offcials in other sports are necessisary calls. We all know this.
Conspiracies between sanction/promoters/teams/spons ors/media are IMPOSSIBLE to pull off because all of these components invest in the integrity of the sport. Their very ability to profit depends on that integrity.
NASCAR would be a fool to gamble with it. Any sanction would.
So Nascar getting on radio and telling Kesolewski to slow down is not managing the outcome of a race?

Do you think the MLB will get on the horn and tell Arod not to be so agressive at the plate tonight?

“How We Roll”

Since: Nov 08

Area 51, Nevada

#33 Oct 28, 2009
menards wrote:
<quoted text>
So Nascar getting on radio and telling Kesolewski to slow down is not managing the outcome of a race?
Do you think the MLB will get on the horn and tell Arod not to be so agressive at the plate tonight?
There's a lot less at stake by comparison. You have 2 teams playing MLB vs 43 inNASCAR and being aggressive is not just going to affect 1 or 2 players in NASCAR. It could potentially affect half a dozen teams, including the equipment. And just because they have safety gear on doesn't mean they're free to go slamming around like in football. The object is to try to get around with as little beating and banging because when allowed to continue, it escalates with retaliation. Sometimes, as with Kurt Busch, its back on pit lane where pit crews are over the wall almost getting run over, and suspicions of payback in following races.



Was it Kurt coming back to

“How We Roll”

Since: Nov 08

Area 51, Nevada

#34 Oct 28, 2009
oops, didnt finish that thought ^ before checking it at youtube and as the video shows, it was Kurt coming back to get after him on Pit road, and it also shows they it even continued into a practice session at a different track.

Since: Apr 07

United States

#35 Oct 29, 2009
menards wrote:
<quoted text>
So Nascar getting on radio and telling Kesolewski to slow down is not managing the outcome of a race?
Do you think the MLB will get on the horn and tell Arod not to be so agressive at the plate tonight?
So tell me the circumstances around it. Since you are selling this, be a good salesman and actually come up with something that I can read to beleive in.

Looking forward to it!

Since: Apr 07

United States

#36 Oct 29, 2009
alpinedigital wrote:
<quoted text>
There's a lot less at stake by comparison. You have 2 teams playing MLB vs 43 inNASCAR and being aggressive is not just going to affect 1 or 2 players in NASCAR. It could potentially affect half a dozen teams, including the equipment. And just because they have safety gear on doesn't mean they're free to go slamming around like in football. The object is to try to get around with as little beating and banging because when allowed to continue, it escalates with retaliation. Sometimes, as with Kurt Busch, its back on pit lane where pit crews are over the wall almost getting run over, and suspicions of payback in following races.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =tCuDJw17UIAXX
Was it Kurt coming back to
Thank you.
mike also stutters

Westborough, MA

#37 Oct 29, 2009
seems like you are trying to tell me something. you DO realize that i was REPLAYING to a person who WAS complaining about the 'seeding' and that i was DEFENDING it, RIGHT?

anyway, maybe you are just in stringent AGREEMENT with me and expressing your support of my comments so EMPHATICALLY.

oh, by the way, nascar racing is not a sport. bad comparison with nascar racing and actual sports. also, it is nothing like seeding of teams in sports. when 16 teams make the playoff in hockey for instance, one team plays one other. there is 1 winner and 1 loser in each game. racing competitions in nascars senior level have 43 teams in each competition, 42 of them lose. there is no elimination of seeds in racing. it is hardly comparable, there is no advancing. there is no home field. its non-athletes jockeying cars. the cars are in more competition than the drivers. then comes the crew chiefs. then comes drivers. and athleticism is not a factor. not a sport. its a game, it takes skill, but it is not a skill that is prohibitive, meaning if you or i decided at age 5 to be a driver, we'd actually have a reasonable shot at developing the necessary skills to compete at a high level. we wouldn;t need genetic advantage or year round training or complex development of skills at the hands of experienced coaches. all we'd need is a ride and seat time.

no, in advance, they don't driver 4 hours staright at 200 mph withstanding any g-force that the average person could not withstand, not is weight loss due to heat inside the car on hot race days any indication of athleticism. they are skilled at what they do, but skill does not equate athleticism. says me. and common sense. put down the dictionary this is not a technical argument but a logical one.

the cars and helmets have blowers, they stop average 10 times per race for caution and refreshments. the attain 200 at a handful of tracks for a split second per lap in most cases and speed does not equate difficulty the large tracks are easier than the smaller slower tracks.

average driver does not work out, and if he does its for fun not driving. average driver is 5'4'' 150 maybe. without any special physical attribute making them any more capable at driving than anyone else. no i can't race jeff gordon competitively - he has probably 20,000 hours seat time i have none.

they are little men jockeying cars.


MarkL5 wrote:
<quoted text>
What NASCAR did is actually adopt a format that mirrors what other major sports do.
It's called seeding.
We enjoy the NCAA Basketball format because in March everything starts over. The Chase is championship tournament. Those teams with the best rankings may have an easier road to the National Championship, but every team can run the table and win. The most successful teams have an easier road, but they must still maintain their momentum to win the championship.
Same as in the NBA, MLB, or NFL championship. Your ranking in the Chase is like a home field advantage. If you cannot sustain your momentum, or raise your performance, you lose.
That creates more interest in the REGULAR season, and makes every race in the Chase more important.
Say what you will about the Chase format, but more people PAY ATTENTION to the last ten races of the year now more than ever. You may HATE it, but you PAY ATTENTION, and that is the beauty of it. If you didn't care, you wouldn't complain.
The beauty of the Chase is that it provokes ATTENTION, positive OR negative. Sometimes I hate what happens in the NFL, BUT I DON'T STOP WATCHING it!
I may Bit*h about the format, but for some reason, my TV is still tuned in every week, so NASCAR is the beneficiary of your attention, and that is why the format works. People used to tune in to see Earnhardt wreak somebody, just as many people tuned in to see him wreak.
Bottom line - THEY TUNED IN.
mike also stutters

Westborough, MA

#38 Oct 29, 2009
whio tallied the 70 million? that's like when they say an event will bring $20 million to a local economy. heresay. does the economy mena folks aren';t watching tv? i'd say i've never seen a home without a tv even in the poorest places. and in bad economy its the 'going out' that is reduced. people stay home and watch tv. for ratings to drop means exactly what it appears to mean - shrinkig fan base. in fact in the poor economy the shrink is more significant that it would otherwise be as the economy should help ratings.

the ratings drop being discussed is not this season before and after nfl season, but rather this year versus last year.

logic rules.
MarkL5 wrote:
<quoted text>
Look Bunkie!
Don't confuse a RECESSED economy with lack of fanbase, and this time of year, NASCAR has to deal with America's other major obsession called the NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE.
NASCAR still commands over 70 million fans - second only in total numbers to the NFL, so pah-leeeeeeZe. Save the NASCAR is tanking mojo for the idiots who buy that Obama was born in Kenya.
mike also stutters

Westborough, MA

#39 Oct 29, 2009
and so you agree with menards, as kurt was never warned! but keselowski was. they manage the races and bend the rules in a desperate attempt at keeping ratings up and sponsors interested and it keep backfiring because they are poor managers.

alpinedigital wrote:
oops, didnt finish that thought ^ before checking it at youtube and as the video shows, it was Kurt coming back to get after him on Pit road, and it also shows they it even continued into a practice session at a different track.
mike also stutters

Westborough, MA

#40 Oct 29, 2009
it was widely published and admitted to by nascar. you were busy counting viewers instead of watching the race i think.
MarkL5 wrote:
<quoted text>
So tell me the circumstances around it. Since you are selling this, be a good salesman and actually come up with something that I can read to beleive in.
Looking forward to it!

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