Jimmie Johnson: How Do Five Straight Championships Compare To Other Dynasties?

Nov 22, 2010 Full story: BleacherReport 44

Jimmie Johnson has won his fifth consecutive Sprint Cup Championship. Let that sink in for a minute.

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Kelly

United States

#1 Nov 22, 2010
Sorry, he is still not in Jeff Gordon's league. This is the reason why I stopped watching NASCAR. The winner is the best out of a 36 race season, not the last 10.
NOT JJ fan

United States

#2 Nov 22, 2010
Amen. they will change the chase. he will NOT win again. losing to many fans & ticket holders.
JJ2FST488

Stephens City, VA

#3 Nov 22, 2010
Kelly wrote:
Sorry, he is still not in Jeff Gordon's league. This is the reason why I stopped watching NASCAR. The winner is the best out of a 36 race season, not the last 10.
Uh, sorry Gordon, Earnhardt, and Petty are not in Jimmie Johnson's league. Nobody's won 5 championships in fewer races than Jimmie. El Gordo has only 4 sorry :(

“IN GOD WE TRUST”

Since: Jun 07

Raleigh

#4 Nov 22, 2010
Jeff Gordon is my man and has been since that day at Darlington that I first saw him in Bill Davis's old number 1 Baby Ruth Busch Car. But the magic died when Ray moved on. Just like it will when Jimmie and Chad separate and they will. Nothing is forever. But Jimmie and Chad have done something that is going to be unequaled for a long time if ever. It would never have happened if either of them had been partnered with someone else. Jimmie doesn't have anymore talent than Jeff or Denny for that matter but together with Chad and the resources at HMS, they're the cream of the crop. Their ability to keep their cool under any circumstance and never deviate from the way they do business makes them the absolutely best there is.
The Fat and the Furious

Plymouth, MI

#5 Nov 22, 2010
Whoyakidding wrote:
Jeff Gordon is my man and has been since that day at Darlington that I first saw him in Bill Davis's old number 1 Baby Ruth Busch Car. But the magic died when Ray moved on. Just like it will when Jimmie and Chad separate and they will. Nothing is forever. But Jimmie and Chad have done something that is going to be unequaled for a long time if ever. It would never have happened if either of them had been partnered with someone else. Jimmie doesn't have anymore talent than Jeff or Denny for that matter but together with Chad and the resources at HMS, they're the cream of the crop. Their ability to keep their cool under any circumstance and never deviate from the way they do business makes them the absolutely best there is.
I don't know if I'd take things as far as that. Saying the magic will die when they separate makes it sound almost as if he'll no longer be competitive. Jeff has certainly been good enough to win championships since Ray left, as you know, in fact he did win one and may yet win again. Jimmie will also remain competitive and very well could win after Chad is gone. I do understand the statement to some degree. Although he may stay competitive, it may not be the way it has been. The only way we'll find that out is when it happens.

Jeff and Jimmie are 2 much different people than some people probably want to notice. Jeff is much more emotional and fiery than Jimmie is and Jimmie has a more reserved patience about him. They're both good communicators with the team and certainly both talented and confident. The real question may come down more to desire than anything else. Everyone gets to a point when they lose some of the desire to race the way they once did and it happens to different people at different times. It may hit Jimmie in a few years or it may hit much later, there's just no way to tell. I believe it's already hit Jeff to a degree and we'll see if he gets it back for a time and wins another or if it's just over for championships. Because, I believe these 2 are capable of working with any crew chief and being successful and it comes down more to a matter of desire. When you have talent behind the wheel, determination, great feedback skills and the resources, any good crew chief can have success with you. Maybe not as much as the last one, but who knows. Guys like Jeff and Jimmie make a crew chief better just as much as Chad makes a driver better. Wait, let me rephrase that. Guys like Jeff and Jimmie make the right crew chief better just as much as Chad makes the right driver better.

As far as talent, it's not all about talent. Jimmie may not have any more talent than Jeff or Denny (although that's debatable depending on what someone considers talent) but he has drive, confidence and desire that makes him superior, just as it did/does Jeff. What stops others from winning, motivates Jimmie and Jeff and usually any champ from any sport. Those are the things Denny is working on and if he gets there, he may yet be a champion himself. It's all grand and good to say you have that level of confidence and motivation, but it's another thing to prove it. Jeff and Jimmie have proven it time and again. Either is capable of proving it in the future. That's what makes champions and the guys we call the best. They have something beyond just talent. Many guys have talent, yet champions are a small percentage of those people.

I'm sure that I'm telling you nothing you don't already know. Just felt like putting my 2 cents in I guess.

“How We Roll”

Since: Nov 08

Area 51, Nevada

#6 Nov 24, 2010
Whoyakidding wrote:
Jeff Gordon is my man.
Are you aware that JG actually came THIS CLOSE to 4 in a row?
'95 by 34
'96 by -34
'97 by 14
'98 by 364

Gordon (Dupont Rainbow) was my fav but as a highly superstitious artist, I have a thing about paint. I didn't like the flames because
1.) I was never able to draw flames that look organic and random.
2.) They seem to suggest the car is really fast, which I would never do. If the car is fast, let the stop watch announce that.
But Gordon had a second car and I was going to cheer them both on. The rest is history.

“How We Roll”

Since: Nov 08

Area 51, Nevada

#7 Nov 24, 2010
The Fat and the Furious wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sure that I'm telling you nothing you don't already know. Just felt like putting my 2 cents in I guess.
Yeah, I agree with most, but to not 'completely agree' I guess is not to agree. There's one all-important aspect to being master of your trade, and that is you must cover EVERY base.

I'll try to explain it like this: Say another driver does have equal 'talent' by most definitions: Extraordinary ability in all those areas you mentioned. Run them thru a season and who will win? The one with the highest probability of finishing the race without incident. THAT has always been a primary factor in becoming a champ. That driver must be more patient and avoid conflict better than the others. You can't beat and bang and expect that cat's gonna wave you by next time.

I also believe that its not only having been trained to behave like this, but also the timing in which drivers are trained and the sequences of events that allow for that training to stick. First off,(lets say with 3 or 4 seasons in nationwide for example) a driver probably will have developed habits and expectations. Stick this guy with Chad, and Chad's gonna want to erase all the things he doesn't like, which if its Kyle Busch, that's obviously a near-impossible task.

My theory is that a fresh driver with lower expectations is humble, and has a very clean foundation to work with. First step in training is to have your priorities in order. Yesterday, I had a pretty odd thought:
Chad: "First thing I need is trust and obedience. So if I tell you I'm gonna punch you in the stomach, and I need you to stand there..." [Boom, he does it] "...I want you to realize that when I say Im going to do something, you should trust that I will do my best to make that happen. Now, had you stumbled when I hit you, we'd have to try this again until you execute my instruction perfectly. Lucky you stood there and your feet didnt move..."

Shock value is good for imprinting memory. Get that trust and obedience issue squared away, and what you have left is probably best demonstrated with performances like the Tally 'Go now' event where Chad told him to sit tight until he was ready for Jimmie to go. That's a perfect presentation of executing instruction.

So you can then train a driver to know all the critical ingredients for a driver to 'progress' towards 'becoming' a champ, because he must first learn to walk, right? Most likely starting with patience, which would also teach endurance and survival.

...And here we are, back to keeping it clean and avoiding conflict. There's also the benefit of getting the most seat time for developing every other aspect of racing, like feedback and car control. I think at this point, anyone reading this realizes how perfect this scenario is for developing a driver capable of winning a championship.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#8 Nov 24, 2010
You cant make this comparison. A "Chase" championship is not the same as a Winston Cup championship. Pre-2004 championships were much harder to win. You had to be good for 36 weeks, now you only need to be somewhat better than average for 26 and good for 10.
JJ2FST488 wrote:
<quoted text>Uh, sorry Gordon, Earnhardt, and Petty are not in Jimmie Johnson's league. Nobody's won 5 championships in fewer races than Jimmie. El Gordo has only 4 sorry :(
X Jr Fan

Cleveland, TN

#9 Nov 24, 2010
menards wrote:
You cant make this comparison. A "Chase" championship is not the same as a Winston Cup championship. Pre-2004 championships were much harder to win. You had to be good for 36 weeks, now you only need to be somewhat better than average for 26 and good for 10.
<quoted text>
i agree... nobody touch Cale's record of 3 consecutive cup championships until the resetting of the points 30 years later. with 10 races just counting somebody will probably come along and win 10 or more in a row

“How We Roll”

Since: Nov 08

Area 51, Nevada

#10 Nov 24, 2010
menards wrote:
You cant make this comparison. A "Chase" championship is not the same as a Winston Cup championship. Pre-2004 championships were much harder to win. You had to be good for 36 weeks, now you only need to be somewhat better than average for 26 and good for 10.
<quoted text>
"Pre-2004 championships were much harder to win."

LOGIC FAIL.

If you're leading in points and the chase brings everyone right back on your ass, it is much harder to win. Pre-chase, you get a decent points spread early on and you can ride that wave to the finish. In the chase, you got 10 races in which to prove yourself, and its practically guaranteed you will NOT have 100pts in the bank. You'll have 12 people ready to make you work your ass off to make that championship effort stick. And they will likely be breathing hard down your neck from a mere 50-60 points away or less.

"You had to be good for 36 weeks"
No, you don't gotta be good for 36, because if that were the case, nobody will have ever clenched a title before the final race.

No, you don't truly compare them like they're equal events, but if you're going to say one is harder than the other?? Start comparing win margains, like being the only car on the lead lap. That isn't nearly as competitive as these days where we have wave-arounds and lucky dogs, dbl-file restarts and everyone's fav: The phantom debris caution that eliminates any hope they may have for an easy victory.

And give me a break!! I can't say with any authority but if you check stuff like qualifying times from then and now, I bet the competition is way closer. I bet if you rated the cars back then, you'd see some teams could pretty much tell more than half the field not to waste their time. They didn't have body templates, or the mechanical requirements we have these days.

That said, if u handed someone a million dollars, they'd probably beat the living crap out of you because they could buy anything they wanted to make up for a lack of skill. And that pretty much means what? Once you got your win money, you again have an advantage going into the next race.

Why do u think crew chiefs get so many stories about how they get advantages? Cuzz those advantages were done with ingenuity, rather than money. Now, there's a very strict limit on how clever they can be, and no amount of money can give your car an aero advantage. LACK of money will keep you slow, no doubt, but having a fat wallet won't make you superior. There's 20 other guys out there with cars that are exactly the same down to within millimeters. None of that ridiculous Plymouth super-advantage bullsh!t... I mean come on!!

You want to compare difficulty ratings? The hardest game is the one that allows for the fewest mistakes. OBVIOUSLY 10 races is fewer than 72. Its basic math, people.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#11 Nov 24, 2010
Your whole post is a logic fail.

Chase championships are easier to win >because< at race 27 the points are reset. Pre 2004 what chance did the guy running 12th have of winning a title? While you can argue that the "chase title" is harder to win for the guy who is leading after race 26, its easier for the guys in 2nd through 12th. Easier for 11 wins over harder for 1 any day of the week.
alpinedigital wrote:
<quoted text>
"Pre-2004 championships were much harder to win."
LOGIC FAIL.
If you're leading in points and the chase brings everyone right back on your ass, it is much harder to win. Pre-chase, you get a decent points spread early on and you can ride that wave to the finish. In the chase, you got 10 races in which to prove yourself, and its practically guaranteed you will NOT have 100pts in the bank. You'll have 12 people ready to make you work your ass off to make that championship effort stick. And they will likely be breathing hard down your neck from a mere 50-60 points away or less.
"You had to be good for 36 weeks"
No, you don't gotta be good for 36, because if that were the case, nobody will have ever clenched a title before the final race.
No, you don't truly compare them like they're equal events, but if you're going to say one is harder than the other?? Start comparing win margains, like being the only car on the lead lap. That isn't nearly as competitive as these days where we have wave-arounds and lucky dogs, dbl-file restarts and everyone's fav: The phantom debris caution that eliminates any hope they may have for an easy victory.
And give me a break!! I can't say with any authority but if you check stuff like qualifying times from then and now, I bet the competition is way closer. I bet if you rated the cars back then, you'd see some teams could pretty much tell more than half the field not to waste their time. They didn't have body templates, or the mechanical requirements we have these days.
That said, if u handed someone a million dollars, they'd probably beat the living crap out of you because they could buy anything they wanted to make up for a lack of skill. And that pretty much means what? Once you got your win money, you again have an advantage going into the next race.
Why do u think crew chiefs get so many stories about how they get advantages? Cuzz those advantages were done with ingenuity, rather than money. Now, there's a very strict limit on how clever they can be, and no amount of money can give your car an aero advantage. LACK of money will keep you slow, no doubt, but having a fat wallet won't make you superior. There's 20 other guys out there with cars that are exactly the same down to within millimeters. None of that ridiculous Plymouth super-advantage bullsh!t... I mean come on!!
You want to compare difficulty ratings? The hardest game is the one that allows for the fewest mistakes. OBVIOUSLY 10 races is fewer than 72. Its basic math, people.

“How We Roll”

Since: Nov 08

Area 51, Nevada

#13 Nov 24, 2010
menards wrote:
Easier for 11 wins over harder for 1 any day of the week.
<quoted text>
lmao How the hell do u figure that if you're running for a cup, that having 11 other guys suddenly right back in the hunt made it easier for you?

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#14 Nov 24, 2010
LMAO how the hell do you argue the chase doesnt make it easier for the 11 guys running 2-12 after race 26?
alpinedigital wrote:
<quoted text>
lmao How the hell do u figure that if you're running for a cup, that having 11 other guys suddenly right back in the hunt made it easier for you?
X Jr Fan

Cleveland, TN

#15 Nov 24, 2010
menards wrote:
LMAO how the hell do you argue the chase doesnt make it easier for the 11 guys running 2-12 after race 26?
<quoted text>
are you implying that its easier for JJ to win since 3 of his 5 championships he was 300 or more points back going into the chase?

“How We Roll”

Since: Nov 08

Area 51, Nevada

#16 Nov 24, 2010
menards wrote:
LMAO how the hell do you argue the chase doesnt make it easier for the 11 guys running 2-12 after race 26?
<quoted text>
I never said it wasn't easier for 2-12, which was never the point. Its harder for 1 BECAUSE it's easier for his competitors. Is that logic so difficult to understand?

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#17 Nov 24, 2010
That not logic because it doesn't matter if you ranked 1 or 12 at the end of 26 when the points get reset. So yes it's much easier to race for a top 12 through the first 26 than it is to race for #1. is that logic so hard to understand? Under the current system a driver can loaf the first 26 and just be slightly better than average and still have as good as a shot at the title as any of the other top twelve. Pre chase any team hoping for a title had to be on there game every single week.
alpinedigital wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said it wasn't easier for 2-12, which was never the point. Its harder for 1 BECAUSE it's easier for his competitors. Is that logic so difficult to understand?

“How We Roll”

Since: Nov 08

Area 51, Nevada

#18 Nov 24, 2010
menards wrote:
bla bla bla... Pre chase any team hoping for a title had to be on there game every single week.
<quoted text>
Every single week? I think you have issues with your math there, Einstein. In 1998, Jeff Gordon was about over 350 points over Martin, over 700 points over Jarrett in 3rd place. 6th place almost 1150 points back? Earnhardt in 8th was 1400 points in the hole.

Now please, explain how Jeff is supposed to struggle towards this championship?

“How We Roll”

Since: Nov 08

Area 51, Nevada

#19 Nov 25, 2010
ANYway... championships aside, who's getting more wins in fewer attempts? AND its harder to win races with tighter competition.

Drivers with the fewest starts to get to 50 Sprint Cup wins:

Jeff Gordon, 232
Darrell Waltrip, 278
David Pearson, 293
Jimmie Johnson, 296
Junior Johnson, 303
Ned Jarrett, 332
Richard Petty, 338
Cale Yarborough, 347
Dale Earnhardt, 369
Lee Petty, 392
Bobby Allison, 433
Rusty Wallace, 498

NUFF SAID!
Lisaaa

Livonia, MI

#20 Nov 25, 2010
People are just mad that JJ is AMAZING & they can't do what he did. You all need to stop hating on JJ because they are jealous. And start cheering for a winner instead of a loser!(Dale Jr,*cough*) lol.:)

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#21 Nov 26, 2010
That's exactly the point dummy! When your 800 points back you had no shot at the title. No u could be 1000 points back in 12th and still walk away with a title. Jeff Gordon was on top of his game every week in 98. other teams simply couldn't keep up. What did they have 12 wins that year? Average finish position was what 4th u had to average a 4th place finish every week to beat Gordon that year. Sounds alot harder that just hanging in there for 12th and making a run in ten races. no surprise that pu resort to simple insults. Thats what most do when they just don't get it.
alpinedigital wrote:
<quoted text>
Every single week? I think you have issues with your math there, Einstein. In 1998, Jeff Gordon was about over 350 points over Martin, over 700 points over Jarrett in 3rd place. 6th place almost 1150 points back? Earnhardt in 8th was 1400 points in the hole.
Now please, explain how Jeff is supposed to struggle towards this championship?

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