Leftist Protesters Set Fires in Oaxaca

Leftist protesters set buildings on fire in embattled Mexican colonial city of Oaxaca OAXACA, Mexico, Nov.

[Martin Stein]

At what point will it become clear that Gov. Ruiz has lost control Oaxaca, and he be forced to resign. At least his resignation would bring a halt to escalating hostilities that will only lead to more violence. While the PRI and PAN play politics, one of the jewels of Mexico is being destroyed economically and politically. Oaxaca seems to have become the site of the PRI's last stand in Mexico.

[Hombre]

I don't think that it is a question of wanting the conflict to end, but how to do it, that has them all baffled. Surely, Ruiz stepping down wouldn't hurt, but it was a majority that voted him in. There are too many demonstrators to simply go in and arrest them all, nevertheless, their numbers do not reflect a majority. That is simply a democratic way, regardless of whether his cops got out of hand in the initial demonstration. It is unlikely that the federal government is going to oust Ruiz, and set that precedent for the rest of Mexico. As regarding the PRI having its' death knell in Oaxaca: great, couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys. The sooner the better.

[nick]

hey could i plz get all this news(about the goverment)(curruption) to my email to help me on a spanish project

([e-mail])

[Patrick]

"At least his resignation would bring a halt to escalating hostilities that will only lead to more violence."

I don't believe that. If Ruiz left there would suddenly be more demands.

[Hombre]

Patrick wrote:

If Ruiz left there would suddenly be more demands.

I think that is an accurate insight.
I think that APPO is about a power struggle for a leftist agenda, through the mechanism of violence and intimidation, which used the teachers strike to gain momentum, but now is unmasked, and is loathe to give up the fight and use a democratic process to win the reform they say they want.
They are simply neighborhood bullies and common criminals at this point.
It won't be long before Calderon has the justification he needs to end this with force and the approval of the general public.

[Dave Tallent]

Well, of course I don't know who set the fires; it could have been agents provocatours. I haven't heard of any public APPO directives to burn cars or buildings. It could be just a few hotheads like in america's peaceful protests. But I think APPO should denounce this vandalism publicly, otherwise they sin by omission. I uttered these profanities (electronically) after viewing this slideshow. http://www.youtube.com - Oaxaca APPO ya basta.
I remember when that "Tourist go home" grafitti went up. APPO's campaign against tourism and their attempt to shut down the city are turning many citizens of Oaxaca against them. This strategy has no other purpose that I can see than to escalate the violence. My favorite spot for a refresca near the zocalo was tagged by the APPO and the owner is afraid of retaliation if she paints over it. When ordinary people have this much fear, I think it is fair to say that terrorism is afoot. But the picture in the slide show that really affected me was the shot of the freshly painted street. That is the Oaxaca that the APPO has destroyed.

[Hombre]

Nice flic. It has that educational film strip quality I remember so well back when I was a lad, except much more nicely done. I wonder if the teachers of Oaxaca will be interested in showing it to their classrooms for their reflection?....perhaps the kids can ask the teachers to show them a personal example of what 'they did on summer vacation' for inspiration?

[Patrick]

A friend was over today and in one of her junior high classes the teacher started talking about APPO and the struggle. When class was over the kids went out and when the teacher came out a group of children started chanting, "APPO afuera!(APPO get out!)" The teacher blushed and hurried on. My friend's daughter said that since then the teacher has only taught the subject for the class.

People are fed up.

"Well, of course I don't know who set the fires; it could have been agents provocatours. I haven't heard of any public APPO directives to burn cars or buildings. It could be just a few hotheads like in america's peaceful protests."

I suppose it could be Elvis. When people show up with shopping carts full of gasoline bombs it tends to indicate a general approval. They aren't sneaking the gasoline bombs in. No one in the mob is screaming, "What are you doing?" when the bombs get thrown.

From my apartment I watched as the nitwits tried to set fire to a bus amid cheering from the other nitwits.

Sorry, the agente provocateur or a few hotheads doesn't fit what's happening.

[Hombre]

Patrick wrote:

People are fed up.

Yay!....about time!

[Dave Tallent]

Well Patrick, you must concede that the FDP has committed its share of arson; and even though some protesters have been burning buses at least since July when I was there, I have a hard time believing that the tens of thousands of people marching and demonstrating, peacefully for the most part, support burning innocent peoples cars, homes and shops. Maybe a few gas bombs at the FDP
or a hated government building, but not mom and pop.

[Patrick]

If you'll give me an example of FDP arson, perhaps I'll concede.

You're right. APPO took the same position you are taking. As long as we're firebombing buses, trucks, cars, government buildings, hotels, and police officers it's fine.

Mom and Pop can tell you that arson isn't the only way you destroy a business.

Look at what was accomplished. Poor kids were kept out of school for six months while rich kids continued to go to school. Thousands of poor people lost their jobs while the employers went on a vacation to wait for the problems to end. The buses, which are used predominantly by the poor and working class were burned and blockades prevented buses from getting around town. What had been a single bus ride became three or four bus rides. Virtually all the citizens attacked and assaulted were poor or working class. I suspect the poor have had just about all the "help" from APPO that they can stand.

[Dave Tallent]

I read in some news story that the PFP set fires when they cleared the Santo Domingo plaza. There was a picture of a caminetta on fire, but I don't think FDP did that; it had all the marks of an APPO hothead. The article gave the impression that the fires were more like trash burning in preparation for garbage removal and I was being sarcastic. I agree wholeheartedly with what you post above, but it is not my position to support vandalism, and I was suggesting that it is not the position of most of the marchers and chanters and pot bangers either. Which leads me to a question:
now that the head of APPO has been cut off, what is
that vast body doing?

[Patrick]

IMHO, there was initially support for APPO from almost anyone who did not like the current governor or the PRI. As time wore on the support disappeared. I don't believe there is a vast body of APPO supporters. The ones who started out thinking APPO was for poor people learned that wasn't true. The ones who hoped to get a seat at the table and get rich are losing hope for that. The left-wing folks who will take any revolt in a storm will move on to other places and other causes.

[Nelson]

I thought I read from this forum's discussion that some of the foreigners who own homes in Oaxaca City are willing to sell it for 10 cents on a Dollar because they want to leave Oaxaca permanently.

Has the situation gotten this bad and is there no ends in sight?

What about the average citizen of Oaxaca or the less fortunate, with practically no tourist from anywhere in this world coming to Oaxaca in the last 6 months, these poor people cannot just pick up and leave?

Are the average people who needs to feed their families truly powerless?

[Patrick]

When you have two groups fighting over power it is always the poor and average people who suffer the most. Whether it was a fight between APPO and the PRI, or between the PRD, with
APPO as a paid surrogate, and the PRI, it is the people in the middle who suffer. No government has any more interest in "people" than it has to.

For the average people, they have been set back in the struggle to get ahead. At a basic level, the poor kids are six months behind in their education and most won't catch up. People who had jobs don't. Their scarce savings have been used up.

I was visiting with a woman who has three children who took every peso she could raise and opened a modest restaurant. We were chatting a few weeks ago and she said everything was in the restaurant and for four months she'd been paying rent, paying electric bills, and feeding her family but she hadn't been even breaking even. Another restaurant was opened by two brothers a month before the problems. It was off to a great start and then nothing. Some days, I was their only customer. They went under and are back up north now raising another stake for a restaurant that won't be in Oaxaca.

Although the problems seem to be over for now it will be a long time before the people of Oaxaca get things moving again and even longer before the tourists show up in sufficient numbers.

It's sad and the idiots up north who cheer the "revolution" and know nothing of what's going on or the price innocent people are paying infuriate me.

[Patrick]

A late thought. Consider what would happen is Detroit lost it auto industry or Los Angeles lost it's entertainment industry or Manchester, England, lost it's steel industry. That's Oaxaca without the tourists.

[Ray]

It is sad to think that Oaxaca is being destroyed. I remember it as a wonderful and beautiful place.

[Hombre]

Patrick wrote:

....... it will be a long time before the people of Oaxaca get things moving again and even longer before the tourists show up in sufficient numbers.
It's sad and the idiots up north who cheer the "revolution" and know nothing of what's going on or the price innocent people are paying infuriate me.

This is an excellent lesson for the REAL common man of Oaxaca.
The next time the protesters start this crap up again, they will remember what it cost them last time, and get behind law and order.Anarchy cannot be allowed to ruin an entire city and states' economy. As far as I can tell from here, the teachers' strike has always been a despised tradition. Maybe Ruiz got rough, maybe it was just the police that took things too far in the beginning and Ruiz became the scapegoat, but regardless, I would like to quote one man from Oaxaca who said:'All this for one man'. Ain't worth it....whether it's Ruiz, or the guy whose death originally sparked all this. Are the Americans invading Oaxaca over Bradley Wills' death? More people die of disease and traffic accidents every day than what sparked this confrontation....as you mentioned, not only have some lost their lives, MANY others have lost their LIVING and opportunity to make their lives better through the selfishness of others.

[Patrick]

Ray, for me, what makes Oaxaca a lovely place to live is the people. They're warm, friendly, courteous, and honest. The buildings are nice and the festivities are okay, especially at first, but over the long haul it's the people I enjoy. The people really haven't changed.

[Hombre]

Patrick wrote:

Ray, for me, what makes Oaxaca a lovely place to live is the people. They're warm, friendly, courteous, and honest. The buildings are nice and the festivities are okay, especially at first, but over the long haul it's the people I enjoy. The people really haven't changed.

Yeppers, but re: the architecture, etc.:....as someone else said...Sherwin Williams is the real beneficiary of the strike...yet thank God ( is that OK to say?), the 'protesters' didn't have anything more potent than bottle-rocket bazookas, slingshots, and smal arms fire, or they may well have devastated the one of the states' largest sources of income forever....i.e. tourism. People can be nice everywhere, when you're handing our money ( except maybe, Paris ), but fact is, the colonial architecture, ruins and fascinating diversity of ecosystems is a primary draw for those who have never visited, as well as those who return.