Controversy Continues In Midtown AA Scandal

May 17, 2007 Full story: Washington Examiner 65

“I was told where to have dinner, where to meet them for dinner, not to have dinner alone or with my husband at the time”

A police officer's wife has come forward saying she was encouraged to cheat on her husband while she was a member of the Washington-area Alcoholics Anonymous group Midtown. via Washington Examiner

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Concern

Los Angeles, CA

#1 May 24, 2007
Sponsorship is the downfall of A.A. The label, sponsorship did not come from A.A. nor is the word mentioned in there BIG BOOK.
Sponsorship came from recovery places that injected it into A.A as a whole thus dividing A.A.– The message of A.A. is clear “ God could and would if sought”–
Sponsorship goes against God ability and the message of A.A. You can count on if it doesn’t come from ones own heart (personal willingness) it is not A.A.
Orange

Portland, OR

#2 May 24, 2007
Ummm, no, actually, the sponsorship system came from A.A.'s precursor organization, "the Oxford Group", which is what "The Alcoholic Squadron" was a part of before it was renamed to Alcoholics Anonymous.

The sponsorship system has always been a part of Alcoholics Anonymous, from the very beginning.

Then, in his second book, "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions", A.A. founder Bill Wilson praised the sponsorship system lavishly and extensively:

"At this stage of the inventory proceedings, our sponsors come to the rescue....
"They can do this, because they are the carriers of A.A.'s tested experience with Step Four....
"The sponsors of those who feel they need no inventory are confronted with quite another problem."
== Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, William G. Wilson, page 46.

"Our next problem will be to discover the person in whom we are to confide [the person to whom to make the 5th Step confession].
"This may turn out to be one's sponsor."
== Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, William G. Wilson, page 109.

And so on and so on. Please read 12X12.
Andy M

Aberdeen, UK

#3 May 25, 2007
Concern wrote:
Sponsorship is the downfall of A.A. The label, sponsorship did not come from A.A. nor is the word mentioned in there BIG BOOK.
Sponsorship came from recovery places that injected it into A.A as a whole thus dividing A.A.– The message of A.A. is clear “ God could and would if sought”–
Sponsorship goes against God ability and the message of A.A. You can count on if it doesn’t come from ones own heart (personal willingness) it is not A.A.
No,the terms "sponsor" and "sponsorship" pre-date the formation of AA. Sponsorship was a usual practice within the Oxford Group movement which gave rise to Alcoholics Anonymous, both of the co-founders of AA belonging to a group of alcoholics within the Oxford Group before the formation of Alcoholics Anonymous, which simply continued in this practice, as it continued in other central practices of Frank Buchman's Oxford Group movement, such as public confession, which was called "sharing" and the claim to direct personal guidance from God. These and other features of AA belief betray its origins in Frank ND Buchman's strange, and in its time,much criticised religious movement. Sponsorship wasn't added to AA later by outside agencies. It was part of AA from the start. In fact it pre-dates the formation of AA as such.
Concern

Los Angeles, CA

#4 May 27, 2007
Where in the Big Book is the Label sponsor?
Where in the Steps is the Label sponsor?
Where in the Traditions is the Label sponsor?
One can only look to oneself to answer that. Not A.A.
The soul of the outside sponsorship system came from a non- alcoholic Catholic nun, Sister Ignatia from Town Hospital the soul of sponsorship. As the drunk that was intoxicated and needed someone to sponsor him, while he was in the state of insanity needing to detox from alcohol.
Since then the myth of a sponsor was superimposed on sober members inside A.A. using the threat of returning back. This placed the outside label into a superstition that hinders the souls of A.A.’s today.
A.A. message is precise and clear, that God could and would if sought and people places and things or said a second way money, property and authority can easily divert us.
The outside sponsorship system wants to be an authority and part of A.A. today.
Alcoholics in A.A. want to live, others live to want
Concern

Los Angeles, CA

#5 May 27, 2007
Lets put this in perspective using the A.A. Twelve and Twelve pg 43 paragraph 3
“Nor is the quest for security always expressed in terms of money. How frequently we see a frightened human being determined to depend completely upon a stronger person for guidance and protection. This weak one, failing to meet life’s responsibilities with his OWN resources, never grows up.” The same 4th step that Bill mentioned a sponsor could tell someone not to do he was not praising the sponsor he was warning us of them, that why it isn’t mentioned in the Big Book, Steps or Traditions people places and things will divert us which clearly the outside source has.
Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventure before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
(A) that we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives –
(B) That probably no human power could have relived our alcoholism
(C) That God could and would if sought
Is thee ideas of A.A. wrong or is it the outside sponsorship system the same Midtown used
Concern

Los Angeles, CA

#6 May 27, 2007
It amazes me how arrogant and coercive the outside sponsorship system gets
Tradition One of A.A. Plainly States
“No A.A. can compel another to do anything:” 12&12 page 129
Bill W surly saw them coming and its not a sopprize its THE FIRST TRADITION
showing they are outside the A.A. Tradition
Concern

Los Angeles, CA

#8 May 28, 2007
ALL THE STANDARD DEFINITIONS given the word sponsorship would be misleading if applied to the relationship known by that term in AA circles
newcomer

United States

#9 May 29, 2007
the emo VS. goth VS. punk thread (below) is getting more and more interesting than this every second
Bliss

La Plata, MD

#10 Jun 1, 2007
I feel so sad for the young lady who was betrayed by the people she sought help from. I am not clear that she was seeking help? Or being forced into recovery by well meaning people who may have been amoral freaks. Clearly, AA was not at fault, nor its dogma. The mentally ill are often victimized by the systems that are offering them "Help"? This a dilema that society as a whole MUST reconcile not just AA. The are scumbags and ratbags in "Too Many" areas of our society today; from the highest to the lowest!
God grant US the serinity to accept the things we cannot change; the courage to change the things we can, and the Wisdom to know the difference!~Serenity Prayer!
Bliss is Blind

United States

#11 Jun 3, 2007
The AA freaks in Midtown (Mike and Arno) gave me an early education to the dark side of AA. This single story is an exapmple of what is wrong with AA. Until AA recognizes that its decentral governance creates a breeding grounds for sickos who govern (in this case, rape) sick people, then AA will always be shady.
AA taken from inside-out

United States

#12 Jun 3, 2007
Whenever you have self-governed groups of social misfits like many alcoholics, you are bound to have trouble now and then. Sponsorship is not about being self governed
The label, sponsorship, did not come from A.A. nor is the word mentioned in the BIG BOOK, Steps or Traditions. Sponsorship lacks altruism and is the downfall of the A.A. message.
Sponsorship came from recovery places that that are out of business today that injected it into A.A as a whole thus creating a sect in A.A .not of A.A which is altruism and brotherhood.– The message of A.A. is clear “ God could and would if sought”–
Sponsorship challenges another and discriminates against the faith in God that one has. The belief of God’s ability to intuitively handle situations that use to baffle them is again the message of A.A. but not sponsorship. You can count on if it doesn’t come from ones own heart (personal willingness) it is not A.A. its sponsorship and sponsor ship is not about being self governing. Hold the sponsor responsible not A.A. All English definitions
of the label sponsorship goes against the A.A. program a label that is not even in the text Book Alcoholics Anonymous A.A’s, Steps or Traditions!

“My Name My Mission Statement”

Since: Jun 07

Feminism Anarchy, USA

#13 Jun 7, 2007
Sadly; there is a very dark and devisive side to AA. It dates all the way back to the beginning.
Affectionatly termed; "thirteenth stepping", good looking vulnerable woman were singled out and targeted as the newest "victims" for notorious preditory patriarchs throughout the closed AA systems.
AA is not shady, but many of its members are! Just look at the new fourth edition of the Big Book!
Any retard can see that the "singleness of purpose" in AA has been exchanged for what some would term as political correctness. There is a new and devisive agenda in AA that does NOT put sobriety first.
The fourth edition big book has is a serious bend towards focus on the egocentric perversions of suppossedly recovered drunks. After reading the new Fourth edition of the Big Book from cover to cover, I no longer consider myself a member of the fellowship of AA.
The stories that were removed from the Big Book were excellent examples of spiritual and autonomous recovery. The stories that attempt to replace and improve upon the former are farcicle, egocentric, convolluded, propagandized garbage! A pilot breaks his anonimity! Clearly a violation of the traditions! Four homosexuals use the big book as their own personal coming out parties! How far is AA going to stray from its primary purpose? How many drunks will die because they are not perverted freaks?
anonymous

Frederick, MD

#14 Jun 12, 2007
I don't know why everyone wants to persecute this midtown group for something that either happened a long time ago or in seperate individual experiences. They should go after the people in specific and not the whole group. The majority of the midtown group should not have to suffer for individuals. A lot of people making comments "freaks of AA" or whatever has probnably never even sat in one of their meetings. I will call it like it is. Every dang group has it's bad apples does that means that the whole group is infected ...absolutely not. I know many people in that home group and sat in many of their meetings. The majority of alcoholics there are just happy to be sober and are grateful to have such a strong homegroup. I must admit that I am just frustrated with the attacks on the group as a whole.
anonymous

Downey, CA

#15 Jun 13, 2007
The main sole purpose of the outside sponsorship system is to implicate A.A to others
Yet the Traditions of A.A. ask the groups as well as the individual members never to implicate A.A. in any way. HMMMMMM
ADAM M

Minneapolis, MN

#16 Jun 24, 2007
wow, people. this is sopposed to be a program of attraction. but we have just as many arguments here as they due in the white house.
i think that if its good its god. if it bad it man. the point, if sponsership helps so be it. if its not, then the person will realize it not for him or her. people grow and come to many conclusions in there life. they can make a decision for them selves without us arguing online or at meeting on what the right way it is to do things.
i think we should just help other to any length and stay out of god way.
for me i have a sponser. he has never tried to implicate a "gods will" in my life, he shares his experience. strength, and hope with me. that it. i take it or leave it. it has nothing to do with me being weak or strong. its just a guy who loves AA as much if not at times more then i do.
ask yourself if this is good for the new person thats already racey about his life, he dosent need to come here and hear all this stuff to.
try to keep yourself in a position to be helpful no matter the cost, God is ok with that. im sure,......i do it and im happy and sober......and im sponsered.
saltiguy

AOL

#17 Jul 7, 2007
AA is a fellowship, friends helping friends. Early AA meetings were held in peoples' homes. There was no directory - you HAD to be invited AND vetted by your friend BEFORE you went to a meeting in someones' home. So in this way, everyone had a "sponsor". That's all. Nothing like what some people do today.
Midtown AA claims were investigated and police determined that no crimes were committed. It's a non-story
AA brotherhood

Montclair, CA

#18 Jul 16, 2007
The pit in the road on the journey.
Where does it say that one needs a sponsor in the Big Book, Steps or Traditions? What is wrong with the brotherhood and altruism of A.A.?
One drunk helping another?
Not one drunk sponsoring another?
The definition of sponsorship needs to be look up
and understood that it goes against the program and leads another towards dependency rather than the altruism of brotherhood
Jim

Montclair, CA

#19 Jul 16, 2007
A.A's 2% recovery rate shows that clearly
Evan H

Mississauga, Canada

#20 Jul 17, 2007
The AA that I know and helps me stay alive and sober, talks about success as a daily occurance; sobriety one day at a time. Each day that I remain sober for a 24 hour period is another 100% personal success, one that a couple of houndred some odd people in my home group also seem to acheive.
Sorry Jim, but I question your statistic and wonder what group that is based on.
Andy M

Brighouse, UK

#21 Aug 8, 2007
anonymous wrote:
I don't know why everyone wants to persecute this midtown group for something that either happened a long time ago or in seperate individual experiences. They should go after the people in specific and not the whole group. The majority of the midtown group should not have to suffer for individuals. A lot of people making comments "freaks of AA" or whatever has probnably never even sat in one of their meetings. I will call it like it is. Every dang group has it's bad apples does that means that the whole group is infected ...absolutely not. I know many people in that home group and sat in many of their meetings. The majority of alcoholics there are just happy to be sober and are grateful to have such a strong homegroup. I must admit that I am just frustrated with the attacks on the group as a whole.
Isn't the proverb "one bad apple spoils the barrel"?

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