can goth and industrial coexist?

can goth and industrial coexist?

Posted in the Gothic Forum

post mortal

Savannah, GA

#1 Jun 28, 2009
One of our artists has recently released what he calls a goth drum and bass album.
we've never really come across this before and wanted to hear from you the people your thoughts on whether Cast the Sky's album "Tautology" qualifies as goth or dnb or something else.
you can preview at http://bit.ly/y3AA1
Dreadfully Yours

Wildwood, NJ

#2 Jun 30, 2009
On the title of this thread, goth and industrial can coexist. If you've ever been to a club with a "goth night", the majority of the music they play is either industrial or you could say ebm. Whether or not most goths like it is debatable. I personally like both goth and industrial. But thats me. On to the question. Industrial could never be goth, as vice versa. The two are very different. I base it all in the lyrics. Think about it, would you compare Skinny Puppy to say Fields of the Nephilim?
post mortal

Savannah, GA

#3 Jul 1, 2009
i know it was a typo on my part. It should have read "can goth and drum and bass" coexist.

i may need to repost at some point. I think people saw the stupid title and didn't click on it.

“Oh smartness, where art thou?”

Since: Nov 07

Dey tuk er jerbs!

#4 Jul 2, 2009
how do you mean drum and bass? i don't understand where you're going.
Dreadfully Yours

Wildwood, NJ

#5 Jul 2, 2009
post mortal wrote:
i know it was a typo on my part. It should have read "can goth and drum and bass" coexist.
i may need to repost at some point. I think people saw the stupid title and didn't click on it.
Its ok. I got what you said because I read through what you said. Most people would see that and just post based on the title. Although I do believe yes, they can coexist [drum and bass or industrial and goth] they aren't the same things at all.
And yes I am tired if that doesn't make sense or is really redundant.
Dreadfully Yours

Wildwood, NJ

#6 Jul 2, 2009
Flying Don wrote:
how do you mean drum and bass? i don't understand where you're going.
Drum and bass is basically a track of music with no vocals in it, its usually electronic-type music and has just the drum and bass parts.
Wikipedia explains it better than I could:
"Drum and bass (commonly abbreviated to d&b, DnB, dnb, d'n'b, drum n bass, drum & bass, dNb, deebee), is a type of electronic dance music which emerged in the mid 1990s. The genre is characterized by fast breakbeats (typically between 165–185 bpm, occasional variation is noted in older compositions), with heavy sub-bass lines. Drum and bass began as an offshoot of the United Kingdom rave scene of the very early 1990s. Over the first decade of its existence, the incorporation of elements from various musical genres lent to many permutations in its overall style."
Theres a little info as to what it is, and where it kinda comes from. Ish.

“Oh smartness, where art thou?”

Since: Nov 07

Dey tuk er jerbs!

#7 Jul 3, 2009
i see! i thought i knew what industrial was but i guess not!

to the question!
if bass and drums are the only thing that it can have. how on earth is one suposed to get gothic in there? lyrics? there's no song to it so no!
fashion? fashion doesn't really have anything to do with what kind of music you create. if a man dresses up as a goth but then starts to rap, would that be called gothic hip hop then?

i don't see any moral issue here, only practical issues.
Dreadfully Yours

Wildwood, NJ

#8 Jul 7, 2009
Flying Don wrote:
i see! i thought i knew what industrial was but i guess not!
to the question!
if bass and drums are the only thing that it can have. how on earth is one suposed to get gothic in there? lyrics? there's no song to it so no!
fashion? fashion doesn't really have anything to do with what kind of music you create. if a man dresses up as a goth but then starts to rap, would that be called gothic hip hop then?
i don't see any moral issue here, only practical issues.
I base all songs on the lyrics. If the lyrics are pretty good I'll like it, regardless of whatever genre it is. That is what I feel makes goth rock goth. Those songs touch on, or even obsess on the taboo and the sublimity of certain things. While there are some industrial, darkwave or futurepop bands who may do that I still mostly hear other things in the songs. And gothic hip hop is about as real as gothic country. Its never gonna happen. Same with gothic metal for that matter, people only confuse metal bands for "gothic" when they are more along the lines of black metal. If you ever listened to a black metal band, you'd know what I'm talking about.
[endrant]

“Oh smartness, where art thou?”

Since: Nov 07

Dey tuk er jerbs!

#9 Jul 8, 2009
Dreadfully Yours wrote:
<quoted text>
I base all songs on the lyrics. If the lyrics are pretty good I'll like it, regardless of whatever genre it is. That is what I feel makes goth rock goth. Those songs touch on, or even obsess on the taboo and the sublimity of certain things. While there are some industrial, darkwave or futurepop bands who may do that I still mostly hear other things in the songs. And gothic hip hop is about as real as gothic country. Its never gonna happen. Same with gothic metal for that matter, people only confuse metal bands for "gothic" when they are more along the lines of black metal. If you ever listened to a black metal band, you'd know what I'm talking about.
[endrant]
it kind of reminds me of that hip hop song "party like a rockstar" although not gothic, they sure dress up like one. Linkin park is a good example where rap fits fairly well with rock, although in my oppinion not the best band, they make it fit together quite nicely.

now tell me why there can't be gothic metal?:3
Dreadfully Yours

Wildwood, NJ

#10 Jul 10, 2009
Flying Don wrote:
<quoted text>it kind of reminds me of that hip hop song "party like a rockstar" although not gothic, they sure dress up like one. Linkin park is a good example where rap fits fairly well with rock, although in my oppinion not the best band, they make it fit together quite nicely.
now tell me why there can't be gothic metal?:3
i'm not sure what song it is that you're talking about, but i'll just say yay. linkin park sucks now, but their first cd was pretty good. but they still [in my opinion] suck. they whine too much. when i said that, i didn't mean that there can't be such a thing, i meant [and didn't illustrate it well enough] that metal can't be goth. a lot of people confuse the two. gothic metal...a lot of the bands that are called gothic metal just borrow the elements from the subculture and the music. hence the usage...
Gothic-pertaining to the literature or details [i.e. bats, spiders, black cats/i can't think of anything better than details] of the subculture. moreover describing them.
Goth-A style of rock music, noted especially for somber or ethereal tones and lugubrious lyrics. a style of music.
it doesn't mean these bands suck, it just means that they aren't goth.

“Oh smartness, where art thou?”

Since: Nov 07

Dey tuk er jerbs!

#11 Jul 11, 2009
Dreadfully Yours wrote:
<quoted text>
i'm not sure what song it is that you're talking about, but i'll just say yay. linkin park sucks now, but their first cd was pretty good. but they still [in my opinion] suck. they whine too much. when i said that, i didn't mean that there can't be such a thing, i meant [and didn't illustrate it well enough] that metal can't be goth. a lot of people confuse the two. gothic metal...a lot of the bands that are called gothic metal just borrow the elements from the subculture and the music. hence the usage...
Gothic-pertaining to the literature or details [i.e. bats, spiders, black cats/i can't think of anything better than details] of the subculture. moreover describing them.
Goth-A style of rock music, noted especially for somber or ethereal tones and lugubrious lyrics. a style of music.
it doesn't mean these bands suck, it just means that they aren't goth.
well then here's a song made from one of those that i'd probably call gothic metal, start of by just reading the lyrics and tell me if you see any gothic elements in there.

Bleed no reflection
Upon the waters that you fear
Make things happen

Accept no resignation
For some life has been cruel
You have set the mood

Thinking about you... Luna"repeats a couple o times"

Lay the serpent's egg
In this world of make believe
And make things real

My seed of a lunacy
Was a sign made to resist
A mood set from birth

Thinking about you... Luna"repeats a couple o times"

Show me your moon burns
Take me as the moon burns
The freezing moon
Making things real for me
The killing Moon
Making things happen for me

Luna"repeats a couple o times" - all above
Wound of light in the enemy skies
Make things happen for me

On the eve of self destruction
On the eve of all can be...Thinking about you
Dreadfully Yours

Wildwood, NJ

#12 Jul 12, 2009
Flying Don wrote:
<quoted text>well then here's a song made from one of those that i'd probably call gothic metal, start of by just reading the lyrics and tell me if you see any gothic elements in there.
Bleed no reflection
Upon the waters that you fear
Make things happen
Accept no resignation
For some life has been cruel
You have set the mood
Thinking about you... Luna"repeats a couple o times"
Lay the serpent's egg
In this world of make believe
And make things real
My seed of a lunacy
Was a sign made to resist
A mood set from birth
Thinking about you... Luna"repeats a couple o times"
Show me your moon burns
Take me as the moon burns
The freezing moon
Making things real for me
The killing Moon
Making things happen for me
Luna"repeats a couple o times" - all above
Wound of light in the enemy skies
Make things happen for me
On the eve of self destruction
On the eve of all can be...Thinking about you
It still doesn't say "Goth" to me. Most Goth songs lyrics' deal with both the light and the dark. Heaven and hell. Good and evil. And the contrast between any of the two. To me, these lyrics have more to deal with darkness and sadness. I'm not saying that certain metal bands didn't put out a album that was Goth, I'm just saying that they aren't Goth with every album. Take Bloody Kisses from Type O Negative, I would consider that album to be "gothic" because of the tomes of some of the songs. Plus who could forget "Black No. 1"? I mean c'mon! A song about a goth girl? And compare that to the likes of "Dead Again". I mean we're talking more than a couple years apart, but still. I hope my points somewhere in there. I think it is.

“Oh smartness, where art thou?”

Since: Nov 07

Dey tuk er jerbs!

#13 Jul 13, 2009
Dreadfully Yours wrote:
<quoted text>
It still doesn't say "Goth" to me. Most Goth songs lyrics' deal with both the light and the dark. Heaven and hell. Good and evil. And the contrast between any of the two. To me, these lyrics have more to deal with darkness and sadness. I'm not saying that certain metal bands didn't put out a album that was Goth, I'm just saying that they aren't Goth with every album. Take Bloody Kisses from Type O Negative, I would consider that album to be "gothic" because of the tomes of some of the songs. Plus who could forget "Black No. 1"? I mean c'mon! A song about a goth girl? And compare that to the likes of "Dead Again". I mean we're talking more than a couple years apart, but still. I hope my points somewhere in there. I think it is.
so in order for a song to be gothic it has to be about BOTH light and dark stuff, all stuffed in the same lyric?

i'd say the song is gothic, and i know i'm going to face a storm of arguments about how looks aren't everything and that all black magic doesn't make it gothic, but i'd say that the video for the song is quite gothic as well.

remember Sopor Aeternus?
would you consider Anna's music to be gothic?
i know the genre of the music is darkwave inspired by barock and classical music, but if you'd focus on the lyrics! just the lyrics!
in my oppinion, the lyrics does not have to be two-sided to be gothic. in that case, you might just drop what you're doing and go to bed.
Dreadfully Yours

Wildwood, NJ

#14 Jul 13, 2009
Flying Don wrote:
<quoted text>so in order for a song to be gothic it has to be about BOTH light and dark stuff, all stuffed in the same lyric?
i'd say the song is gothic, and i know i'm going to face a storm of arguments about how looks aren't everything and that all black magic doesn't make it gothic, but i'd say that the video for the song is quite gothic as well.
remember Sopor Aeternus?
would you consider Anna's music to be gothic?
i know the genre of the music is darkwave inspired by barock and classical music, but if you'd focus on the lyrics! just the lyrics!
in my oppinion, the lyrics does not have to be two-sided to be gothic. in that case, you might just drop what you're doing and go to bed.
Touchy touchy. Theres just an air to the lyrics that doesn't scream Goth. I don't really consider Darkwave to be a genre that mixes with Goth. Although there are Gothic Darkwave bands. But most aren't close to being Goth. This thread is probably gonna turn into that never ending bloodbattle between what is or isn't Goth. Or worse.....
So I say, let the bloodbath begin!!!!!

“Oh smartness, where art thou?”

Since: Nov 07

Dey tuk er jerbs!

#15 Jul 14, 2009
Dreadfully Yours wrote:
<quoted text>
Touchy touchy. Theres just an air to the lyrics that doesn't scream Goth. I don't really consider Darkwave to be a genre that mixes with Goth. Although there are Gothic Darkwave bands. But most aren't close to being Goth. This thread is probably gonna turn into that never ending bloodbattle between what is or isn't Goth. Or worse.....
So I say, let the bloodbath begin!!!!!
cīmon then! "waves fists in air"

show me some gothic lyrics!
Dreadfully Yours

Wildwood, NJ

#16 Jul 14, 2009
Flying Don wrote:
<quoted text>cīmon then! "waves fists in air"
show me some gothic lyrics!
I have no clue why, but I'm drained/tired, and this is the only song I really have in my head right now
Sisters of Mercy-1959
Living as an angel in the
Place that I was born
Living on air
Living in heaven
Giving the lie down, the line
To the
There's my heaven

And I know
Which way the wind blows
In nineteen fifty-nine

Which way the wind blows
In nineteen fifty-nine

And the wind blows still
And the wind blows wild again
For a little child an never kill this clean
This way
And it feels like me today
Tell me
Do you feel the same?
Isabelle?
Or do you feel like nineteen fifty-nine?
... Do you feel like nineteen fifty-nine?

And the wind blows wild again
And the wind blows wild

In nineteen fifty-nine
In fifty-nine
Isabelle
Do you, do you fell the same?

Come with me
Like a little child
Like another gun
Like homeless, restless, known to none, like
Way beyond the line
Like it never was
In nineteen fifty-nine

*raises fists back*
I'm tired!!!!! but yea....

“Oh smartness, where art thou?”

Since: Nov 07

Dey tuk er jerbs!

#17 Jul 15, 2009
Dreadfully Yours wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no clue why, but I'm drained/tired, and this is the only song I really have in my head right now
Sisters of Mercy-1959
Living as an angel in the
Place that I was born
Living on air
Living in heaven
Giving the lie down, the line
To the
There's my heaven
And I know
Which way the wind blows
In nineteen fifty-nine
Which way the wind blows
In nineteen fifty-nine
And the wind blows still
And the wind blows wild again
For a little child an never kill this clean
This way
And it feels like me today
Tell me
Do you feel the same?
Isabelle?
Or do you feel like nineteen fifty-nine?
... Do you feel like nineteen fifty-nine?
And the wind blows wild again
And the wind blows wild
In nineteen fifty-nine
In fifty-nine
Isabelle
Do you, do you fell the same?
Come with me
Like a little child
Like another gun
Like homeless, restless, known to none, like
Way beyond the line
Like it never was
In nineteen fifty-nine
*raises fists back*
I'm tired!!!!! but yea....
where is the gothic in it?
Dreadfully Yours

Wildwood, NJ

#18 Jul 15, 2009
Flying Don wrote:
<quoted text>where is the gothic in it?
Its nostalgic. Thats all I hafta say. That and I'm freezing cold.

“Oh smartness, where art thou?”

Since: Nov 07

Dey tuk er jerbs!

#19 Jul 18, 2009
Dreadfully Yours wrote:
<quoted text>
Its nostalgic. Thats all I hafta say. That and I'm freezing cold.
how the heck could you freeze now? it's summer!
all the way up here it's hot as hell!

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