LDS have big image problem

LDS have big image problem

There are 194 comments on the Deseret Morning News story from Nov 23, 2008, titled LDS have big image problem. In it, Deseret Morning News reports that:

Gary Lawrence is a card-carrying, tithe-paying, churchgoing Mormon who had long suspected that the public perception of his church in America wasn't exactly up there with, say, baseball and apple pie.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Deseret Morning News.

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#22 Dec 14, 2008
Well,
The point is education and the commentary speaks for itself, what the author was trying to illustrate was the mormon's contribution to the reign of Hitler. Your attempt to belittle the author and myself in no way diminishes the truth that you are trying to hush up.
there it is

Kelseyville, CA

#23 Dec 14, 2008
You got it grandpasmurf! Those lds either whine because there is a quote, or conversely, whine because it is a commentary without a quote.
Here is a great url to explore: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/BOM/abs/lon...
Another good site:
http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org ./
and another:
http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/curseofcain_p... .
htm
and then some more:
http://www.mountainmeadowsmassacre.com/



http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/FTRI...

The Truth will set you free-or at least those that can accept it.

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#24 Dec 14, 2008
Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
Here is a little more information to help clarify the image of the Mormon Church.
The passage of proposition 8 in California is a setback for civil rights, but the positive side is that it is waking people up to the
very real threat of a theocracy run by fundamentalist wackos that would make the taliban look like a sewing circle!
Until the defeat of prop 8, I knew nothing about the Mormons except the knowledge that their sacred book was in part
copied from the King James including the typos ! I found this out opening the book at random and recognizing the
passages. I quickly dismissed the mormons as an obvious fraud and didn't think about the mormons untill it occured to me
that something suspicious was happening, with their feverish pushing to get prop 8 passed. I did some investigation on
my own and quickly uncovered their theodemocracy plot. There is enough information out there to clearly show that this
group is a dangerous political group. Attacking the gays was much like Hitler attacking the Jews. a way of getting the
rest of the fundies on thier side Studying the history of the mormon church I learned that they are the most violent
religious group to be spawned on American Soil. The mormons are busy denying the facts that support their atricities
but anyone who cares to can quickly find out the truth about their organization. They continue to lie and deny their
heritage where it tarnishes their image. I don't like attacking people's faith, Even a misunderstood approach to God is
better than none but the danger they pose to our freedom in this country makes it vital that they be exposed !
If you study Hitler's rise to power , you find amazing parallels to the Mormon agenda. One other thing that could be
just a coincidence but the Mountain Meadows Massacre occurred 144 years to the day before the 9 11 attack on the
twin towers. The threat of theocracy is real, I know the intenet is full of conspiracy plots but
I think it is important that all of us get involved in protecting democracy!
Your intentions seem to be good but your approach wrong. You claim that you knew very little about our church until the prop 8 vote.
Then what you have learned about us has come from whatever you have found on the internet. Problem being that most internet resources are bad ones.

Have you talked with a missionary? or a church member. You should go to mormon.org . This is a website where you can ask questions about our religion and receive the true answer. You seem like a fairly intelligent person so it surprises me somewhat that you will take what you have been told about our religion at face value.

Talk with a missionary at mormon.org . They will not try to convert you but they will answer your questions honestly. You are going to the wrong sources.

You should be better informed before making assumptions about us.
John Coffey

Saint George, UT

#25 Dec 14, 2008
ask him about the book of abraham. Then google it and and read every thing you can about it. The difference is really suprising. Its as clear of evidence as you'll ever find that Joseph Smith could write scripture out of his own imagination.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#26 Dec 14, 2008
Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
Well,
The point is education and the commentary speaks for itself, what the author was trying to illustrate was the mormon's contribution to the reign of Hitler. Your attempt to belittle the author and myself in no way diminishes the truth that you are trying to hush up.
"The point is education..." You should take your own words to heart smurf952 because if you are new at Mormonism101, I will make an educated guess your learning from all the wrong sources which really shows you have little if any true intent to understand Mormons from a "real" learning perspective.
Of me, two religions I have studied quite a bit on for the last 30+ years....Mormons and Jehovah Witnessess. So when you speak of anything concerning Mormons smurf952, 9 out of 10 times I will know if your reading from anti-Mormon sites because they speak against Mormons. Now a true adversary of a religion EXPLAINS their position and points of contention and MOST of the time their quotes come from that church's sources.

Take the MMM that you like to dwell on. Do you know their is not a single thread of even mediocore evidence that ties in one or more governing figures of the Mormons to that massacer? Not even John D. Lee, about to be excuted, not believing in Brigham Young or his teachings any more used the moment to shout out who commanded the massacre to happen! Who about to be killed would not shout out at least one or more names to at least defame others just before they were being killed to leave doubt with the living? Most would. John D. Lee could have. But the fact is that he didn't. He felt he had been used as a scape goat but he didn't even say who "they" were. That establishes his own singularity in his involvement in that massacre with those other men. That is what it does establish. That has more factual information then the rumor that Brigham Young said to kill those people.
John Coffey

Saint George, UT

#27 Dec 14, 2008
I am willing to bet, that if the average Joe investigator approached mormonism with a scientific method, his prayers would be answered differently

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#28 Dec 14, 2008
John Coffey wrote:
I am willing to bet, that if the average Joe investigator approached mormonism with a scientific method, his prayers would be answered differently
then I sincerly hope you are not a betting man
John Coffey

Saint George, UT

#29 Dec 14, 2008
not ashamed wrote:
<quoted text>then I sincerly hope you are not a betting man
I am a betting man. Care to elaborate?

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#30 Dec 14, 2008
John Coffey wrote:
<quoted text>
I am a betting man. Care to elaborate?
sure, I believe our prayers are answered by our heavenly father not by our own desires.
John Coffey

Saint George, UT

#31 Dec 14, 2008
not ashamed wrote:
<quoted text>sure, I believe our prayers are answered by our heavenly father not by our own desires.
Is it my desires that are causing my disbelief in mormonism? Thats either a principle we can examine, or another assumption you're throwing my way.

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#32 Dec 14, 2008
John Coffey wrote:
<quoted text>
Is it my desires that are causing my disbelief in mormonism? Thats either a principle we can examine, or another assumption you're throwing my way.
I am not throwing around assumptions only stating what I believe to be truth.
John Coffey

Saint George, UT

#33 Dec 14, 2008
not ashamed wrote:
<quoted text>I am not throwing around assumptions only stating what I believe to be truth.
assumptions aside, why would you believe that? What makes you believe that? Did my desires get in the way of my testimony? I am left to assume you meant worldly desires. I am FULLY open to examining that. I welcome it.

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#34 Dec 14, 2008
John Coffey wrote:
<quoted text>
assumptions aside, why would you believe that? What makes you believe that? Did my desires get in the way of my testimony? I am left to assume you meant worldly desires. I am FULLY open to examining that. I welcome it.
I do believe that the world can get in the way of our testimonies. I also believe that your prayers can only be anwered honestly when there is real sincerity. I think we all have the power to fool ourselves. The real question is can you tell the difference between divine inspiration and your own feelings.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#35 Dec 14, 2008
not ashamed wrote:
<quoted text>sure, I believe our prayers are answered by our heavenly father not by our own desires.
Knowing the differance is the key. The problem is who has the correct key to know the differance between an angelic answer and an angelic desiare?

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#36 Dec 14, 2008
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Knowing the differance is the key. The problem is who has the correct key to know the differance between an angelic answer and an angelic desiare?
My guess would be that we all hold our own keys. wisdom is something we should all pray for. if you ask it shall be given.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#37 Dec 14, 2008
not ashamed wrote:
<quoted text>My guess would be that we all hold our own keys. wisdom is something we should all pray for. if you ask it shall be given.
And thus 10,000 + different Christian religions just in America.

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#38 Dec 15, 2008
Not ashamed said "Your intentions seem to be good but your approach wrong. You claim that you knew very little about our church until the prop 8 vote.
Then what you have learned about us has come from whatever you have found on the internet. Problem being that most internet resources are bad ones."
I appreciate your thoughtful answer, but I don't think that everyone on the internet is lying but the mormons!
I don't like destroying people's faith but if I feel it to be a danger to myself and the rest of humanity, in good concience I can not do otherwise.
the church can't even agree amongst themselves!
Your credibility is not good, especially in light of your constant denial about the responibility of your prophet Brigham Young in the matter of the Mountain Meadows Massacre, an obvious act of the horrible , twisted doctrine of blood atonement, something that definitely did not come as an inspiration from the God of Love!
I have read your teachings and as anyone with a familiarity with pagan rituals and the occult would tell you it is nothing but a mishmash of kabala and masonic rituals with nothing at all to do with the true teachings of Jesus!
go live

Laie, HI

#39 Dec 15, 2008
Be true to your beliefs and don't let anyone change you
123CandS

Kailua Kona, HI

#41 Dec 15, 2008
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/latter-da...

~~~ SEE THIS "Smith History Vault: 1887 David Whitmer (online) book" on this Website ~~>>
http://olivercowdery.com/smithhome/1880s-1890...

{David Whitmer was reported to be one of the "Three Witnesses" to the Book of Mormon's "Golden Plates"}

~~~ If you have time read it. Part of it says:

"... We denounce the doctrine of polygamy and spiritual wifeism. It is a great evil, shocking to the moral sense, and the more so because practiced in the name of Religion. It is of man and not of God, and is especially forbidden in the Book of Mormon itself in these words. "Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.... For there shall not any man among you have
----------
[ 4 ]
save it be one wife: and concubines he shall have none: For I the Lord God, delighteth in the chastity of woman." (Book of Mormon, page 116, chap. 2. par. 6).

We do not indorse the teachings of any of the so-called Mormons or Latter Day Saints, which are in conflict with the gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, as taught in the New Testament and the Book of Mormon.

They have departed in a great measure from the faith of the CHURCH OF CHRIST as it was first established, by heeding revelations given through Joseph Smith, who, after being called of God to translate his sacred word -- the Book of Mormon -- drifted into many errors and gave many revelations to introduce doctrines, ordinances and offices in the church, which are in conflict with Christ's teachings. They also changed the name of the church. Their departure from the faith is also according to prophecy. "Now the spirit speaketh expressly that in THE LATTER TIMES some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils." (1 Tim. iv:1).

On account of God giving to Joseph Smith the gift to translate the plates on which was engraven the Nephite scriptures, the people of the church put too much trust in him -- in the man -- and believed his words as if they were from God's own mouth.

They have trusted in an arm of flesh.(Jeremiah xvii:5) "Thus saith the Lord: Cursed be the man that trusted in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord."

They looked to Joseph Smith as lawgiver; we look to Christ alone, and believe only in the religion of Jesus Christ and not in the religion of any man.

The doctrine of polygamy was not introduced until about fourteen years after the church was established; but other doctrines of error were introduced earlier than this.

I left the body in June, 1838, being five years before polygamy was introduced.

Joseph Smith drifting into errors after translating the Book of Mormon, is a stumbling-block to many, but only those of very weak faith would stumble on this account. Greater abominations are recorded of David in the Bible, than is recorded to-day of Joseph Smith; but do you reject the Psalms on this account? Do you reject the Proverbs because Solomon was a polygamist?...."

----------
"David Whitmer" references:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Whitmer
go live

Laie, HI

#42 Dec 15, 2008
123CandS wrote:
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/latter-da...
~~~ SEE THIS "Smith History Vault: 1887 David Whitmer (online) book" on this Website ~~>>
http://olivercowdery.com/smithhome/1880s-1890...
{David Whitmer was reported to be one of the "Three Witnesses" to the Book of Mormon's "Golden Plates"}
~~~ If you have time read it. Part of it says:
"... We denounce the doctrine of polygamy and spiritual wifeism. It is a great evil, shocking to the moral sense, and the more so because practiced in the name of Religion. It is of man and not of God, and is especially forbidden in the Book of Mormon itself in these words. "Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.... For there shall not any man among you have
----------
[ 4 ]
save it be one wife: and concubines he shall have none: For I the Lord God, delighteth in the chastity of woman." (Book of Mormon, page 116, chap. 2. par. 6).
We do not indorse the teachings of any of the so-called Mormons or Latter Day Saints, which are in conflict with the gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, as taught in the New Testament and the Book of Mormon.
They have departed in a great measure from the faith of the CHURCH OF CHRIST as it was first established, by heeding revelations given through Joseph Smith, who, after being called of God to translate his sacred word -- the Book of Mormon -- drifted into many errors and gave many revelations to introduce doctrines, ordinances and offices in the church, which are in conflict with Christ's teachings. They also changed the name of the church. Their departure from the faith is also according to prophecy. "Now the spirit speaketh expressly that in THE LATTER TIMES some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils." (1 Tim. iv:1).
On account of God giving to Joseph Smith the gift to translate the plates on which was engraven the Nephite scriptures, the people of the church put too much trust in him -- in the man -- and believed his words as if they were from God's own mouth.
They have trusted in an arm of flesh.(Jeremiah xvii:5) "Thus saith the Lord: Cursed be the man that trusted in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord."
They looked to Joseph Smith as lawgiver; we look to Christ alone, and believe only in the religion of Jesus Christ and not in the religion of any man.
The doctrine of polygamy was not introduced until about fourteen years after the church was established; but other doctrines of error were introduced earlier than this.
I left the body in June, 1838, being five years before polygamy was introduced.
Joseph Smith drifting into errors after translating the Book of Mormon, is a stumbling-block to many, but only those of very weak faith would stumble on this account. Greater abominations are recorded of David in the Bible, than is recorded to-day of Joseph Smith; but do you reject the Psalms on this account? Do you reject the Proverbs because Solomon was a polygamist?...."
----------
"David Whitmer" references:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Whitmer
since when has wiki-pedia become a credible source of info. Stick to the official sites and scriptures.

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