Jehovah's Witnesses and the Supreme C...

Jehovah's Witnesses and the Supreme Court

There are 26 comments on the Associated Content story from Feb 3, 2011, titled Jehovah's Witnesses and the Supreme Court. In it, Associated Content reports that:

Jehovah's Witnesses brought several dozen cases to the U.S. Supreme Court in the 1930s and 1940s, the Court had handled few cases contesting laws that restricted free speech and religion.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Associated Content.

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jhnsn d-s

Spokane, WA

#1 Feb 3, 2011
Marci Hamilton is a Constitutional Lawyer and made the following obseravtions

QUOTE: "The Jehovah's Witnesses religious organization is rightly credited with establishing important free speech precedent in the United States..."

It is extraordinarily ironic, then, that the Jehovah's Witnesses have recently, in Denmark, taken the position that speech, including speech by the press, should be punished and suppressed. It appears that when the topic is alleged clergy abuse within the organization, its position on freedom of speech makes a 180-degree turn. Apparently, the Jehovah's Witnesses support free speech for themselves, but not for their critics.

http://www.silentlambs.org/MarciHamiltonDenma...
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“the truth will set you free...”

Since: Nov 10

League City, TX

#2 Feb 3, 2011
jhnsn d-s wrote:
Marci Hamilton is a Constitutional Lawyer and made the following obseravtions
QUOTE: "The Jehovah's Witnesses religious organization is rightly credited with establishing important free speech precedent in the United States..."
It is extraordinarily ironic, then, that the Jehovah's Witnesses have recently, in Denmark, taken the position that speech, including speech by the press, should be punished and suppressed. It appears that when the topic is alleged clergy abuse within the organization, its position on freedom of speech makes a 180-degree turn. Apparently, the Jehovah's Witnesses support free speech for themselves, but not for their critics.
http://www.silentlambs.org/MarciHamiltonDenma...
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Jehovah's Witnesses have the right to free-speech...

ALLOW room for us. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have taken advantage of no one. I do not say this to condemn you. For I have said before that you are in our hearts to die and to live with us. I have great freeness of speech toward you. I have great boasting in regard to you. I am filled with comfort, I am overflowing with joy in all our affliction. 2 Corinthians 7:2-4

http://www.watchtower.org/e/19960722/article_...

Freedom of Speech Is It Being Abused?

Why did you link to a website riddled in trash? They abuse the freedom of speech. That's your deal.

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#3 Feb 3, 2011
Dream-weaver wrote:
<quoted text>
ALLOW room for us. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have taken advantage of no one. I do not say this to condemn you. For I have said before that you are in our hearts to die and to live with us. I have great freeness of speech toward you. I have great boasting in regard to you. I am filled with comfort, I am overflowing with joy in all our affliction. 2 Corinthians 7:2-4
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If the WTBS et all OJCW is led by holy spirit and appointed by Christ...then how things have changed.
They have wronged people
They have corrupted people
They have taken advantage of people

I am for free speech however.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#4 Feb 3, 2011
All-Hail-K wrote:
<quoted text>
If the WTBS et all OJCW is led by holy spirit and appointed by Christ...then how things have changed.
They have wronged people
They have corrupted people
They have taken advantage of people
I am for free speech however.
Holy spirit does not make you perfect or incapable of making mistakes. So if they have wrong, corrupted, taken advantage of people (all accusations by the way, nothing solid) this is not evident that they don't have holy spirit. People in the bible with holy spirit, have made mistakes against other people... the JW's are no exception, despite us being the only ones practicing true worship.
Prime

South Gate, CA

#5 Feb 3, 2011
Duh-boy wrote:
<quoted text>
Holy spirit does not make you perfect or incapable of making mistakes. So if they have wrong, corrupted, taken advantage of people (all accusations by the way, nothing solid) this is not evident that they don't have holy spirit. People in the bible with holy spirit, have made mistakes against other people... the JW's are no exception, despite us being the only ones practicing true worship.
ROTFLMAO!

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#6 Feb 3, 2011
Duh-boy wrote:
<quoted text>
Holy spirit does not make you perfect or incapable of making mistakes. So if they have wrong, corrupted, taken advantage of people (all accusations by the way, nothing solid) this is not evident that they don't have holy spirit. People in the bible with holy spirit, have made mistakes against other people... the JW's are no exception, despite us being the only ones practicing true worship.
Really you are Duh here. Not accusations only..fact. Two of my 'accusations' happened to me. Fact. Not conjecture, and quite solid. Everyone makes mistakes. The society however refuses to admit it. Deny Deny Deny. They never ever take responsibility. Even when paying off complaints, they still say,'Not that we are wrong, but in the interest of fairness" If you make a mistake, come out and say we screwed up, we are sorry, we are going to try very hard not to make the same mistakes. But no, the WTS is holier than tho and just says 'wait on Jehovah' "hell make it right in the end. If we are abusing you or hurting you, it will all come out in the wash. Meanwhile do what we say or we will ruin your world."
Keep your fingers in your ears and squeeze your eyes tight shut. Keep saying no no it doesn't happen. Someday your ruby slippers will take you away.

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#7 Feb 3, 2011
btw Duh, the WTS continually uses the 'we are guided by holy spirit' line to make you think they are teaching you right, they don't think they are making mistakes.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#8 Feb 3, 2011
All-Hail-K wrote:
<quoted text>
Really you are Duh here. Not accusations only..fact. Two of my 'accusations' happened to me. Fact. Not conjecture, and quite solid. Everyone makes mistakes. The society however refuses to admit it. Deny Deny Deny. They never ever take responsibility. Even when paying off complaints, they still say,'Not that we are wrong, but in the interest of fairness" If you make a mistake, come out and say we screwed up, we are sorry, we are going to try very hard not to make the same mistakes. But no, the WTS is holier than tho and just says 'wait on Jehovah' "hell make it right in the end. If we are abusing you or hurting you, it will all come out in the wash. Meanwhile do what we say or we will ruin your world."
Keep your fingers in your ears and squeeze your eyes tight shut. Keep saying no no it doesn't happen. Someday your ruby slippers will take you away.
Sure.... the things that happened to you, was it the society as a whole that was responsible or some elders in a congo?

What mistakes do the society (GB members, others who take the lead) need to admit to anyone other than Almighty God himself and what is your proof that they havent admitted these mistakes to God and have been forgiven for them!?

You're like the rest of opposers, bitter and waiting for an apology that is not warranted.

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#9 Feb 3, 2011
Duh-boy wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure.... the things that happened to you, was it the society as a whole that was responsible or some elders in a congo?
What mistakes do the society (GB members, others who take the lead) need to admit to anyone other than Almighty God himself and what is your proof that they havent admitted these mistakes to God and have been forgiven for them!?
You're like the rest of opposers, bitter and waiting for an apology that is not warranted.
At first I blamed the individual elders, that is until I went to the Society for help. I wrote letters telling them what was going on and ask for advise, and also ask them to tell me if they thought I was wrong why did they feel that way?
The first letter I received was somewhat sympathetic in that the brothers said they were sorry I felt like I was not getting the help and answers I was asking for. They even made a suggestion of asking the brothers the same questions in a different way. Not once did they volunteer the answers.
The second letter I received said that it was 'obvious' to them that the brothers were doing all they could to remedy the situation, but that 'it had come to their attention'(how did this happen) that I was displaying a rebellious spirit and an unbecoming attitude' Now I would love to know what that meant. I never discussed the issues with anyone else. The brothers not only could not, but would not even try to answer my questions. So, it is both the elders and the GB that I hold accountable. I was threatened with dfing. after a few 'library meetings'. I never raised my voice or was disrespectful. They were right I was wrong, case closed.
First of all if we have wronged another, we are to go to that person as well and ask for forgiveness. You can't hide from the one you have wronged. They may well have done so, but since they continually told me I was wrong, then I doubt it.

I am probably very much like the rest of the ones who have been wronged. Bitter, not so much anymore, that came and went right after the gut retching pain I felt for having been betrayed and subsequently told I no longer 'had Jehovah's ear' for prayer.
Apology from the Society or the elders. hahaha that will never happen, don't want it anyway.
BTW when I say Society, I am talking about the GB and those'taking the lead'. Not the everyday congregation member.

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#10 Feb 3, 2011
All-Hail-K wrote:
<quoted text>
At first I blamed the individual elders, that is until I went to the Society for help. I wrote letters telling them what was going on and ask for advise, and also ask them to tell me if they thought I was wrong why did they feel that way?
The first letter I received was somewhat sympathetic in that the brothers said they were sorry I felt like I was not getting the help and answers I was asking for. They even made a suggestion of asking the brothers the same questions in a different way. Not once did they volunteer the answers.
The second letter I received said that it was 'obvious' to them that the brothers were doing all they could to remedy the situation, but that 'it had come to their attention'(how did this happen) that I was displaying a rebellious spirit and an unbecoming attitude' Now I would love to know what that meant. I never discussed the issues with anyone else. The brothers not only could not, but would not even try to answer my questions. So, it is both the elders and the GB that I hold accountable. I was threatened with dfing. after a few 'library meetings'. I never raised my voice or was disrespectful. They were right I was wrong, case closed.
First of all if we have wronged another, we are to go to that person as well and ask for forgiveness. You can't hide from the one you have wronged. They may well have done so, but since they continually told me I was wrong, then I doubt it.
I am probably very much like the rest of the ones who have been wronged. Bitter, not so much anymore, that came and went right after the gut retching pain I felt for having been betrayed and subsequently told I no longer 'had Jehovah's ear' for prayer.
Apology from the Society or the elders. hahaha that will never happen, don't want it anyway.
BTW when I say Society, I am talking about the GB and those'taking the lead'. Not the everyday congregation member.
Hi AHK hope you well!

The GB will send a copy of the letter you wrote to the local congregation, you did put your return address?

The elders would have wrote back with their defense.

I advise anyone that writes in good faith to the GB to ask them not to pass on this private conversation to anyone else. Whether or not they will honor that remains to be seen.

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#11 Feb 3, 2011
jhnsn d-s wrote:
Marci Hamilton is a Constitutional Lawyer and made the following obseravtions
QUOTE: "The Jehovah's Witnesses religious organization is rightly credited with establishing important free speech precedent in the United States..."
It is extraordinarily ironic, then, that the Jehovah's Witnesses have recently, in Denmark, taken the position that speech, including speech by the press, should be punished and suppressed. It appears that when the topic is alleged clergy abuse within the organization, its position on freedom of speech makes a 180-degree turn. Apparently, the Jehovah's Witnesses support free speech for themselves, but not for their critics.
http://www.silentlambs.org/MarciHamiltonDenma...
.
.
Freedom of speech does NOT include the right to slander and print lies about someone.

If one of your neighbors went round telling your friends that you were a pedophile then you have every right to take him to court to make him stop. That does NOT infringe his freedom of speech.

Everyone wants people to have freedom of speech. But no one wants people to have the freedom to hurt innocent people with lies and slander.
jhnsn d-s

Pullman, WA

#12 Feb 5, 2011
Dream-weaver wrote:
<quoted text>
Jehovah's Witnesses have the right to free-speech...

ALLOW room for us. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have taken advantage of no one. I do not say this to condemn you. For I have said before that you are in our hearts to die and to live with us. I have great freeness of speech toward you. I have great boasting in regard to you. I am filled with comfort, I am overflowing with joy in all our affliction. 2 Corinthians 7:2-4

http://www.watchtower.org/e/19960722/article_...

Freedom of Speech Is It Being Abused?

Why did you link to a website riddled in trash? They abuse the freedom of speech. That's your deal.
Silentlambs took the article from findlaw. The article was orginally used at a university were a proffesor taked about the Watchtower past clearly biased and casting them in a favorable light just as the above writer in the starting news topix.

A simular quote was placed in the comment section were the students revied the information and it wasn't to long after this that the university removed all comments but eventually, allowed select comments. The Proffesor/universitys attempt to suppress the truth was unsuccessful.

With a little research you will discover the Watchtower people have made suppresion of truth an element of settling abuse cases out of court and this was the very thing which got them into court, supressing truth which the watchtower has become very well known for somthing that the pagans of the past would do to remove anything that would make them look bad were as the bible shows the failing and willfullness of the real people of God.
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Putneysays

Torrance, CA

#13 Feb 5, 2011
Crazy, absurd and deviant groups learned a lot from the JWs. Their driven call to confront others, e.g. Catholics with their in-their-face accusations of being the anti-Christ reaped some young Catholics beating the crap out of them. They turn around and sue the Catholic Church for discrimination. What a fine example for queers and steers! Insult to the very core every civilized inclination in humanity and then sue them when they get angry at you.

Yep... We have the JWs to thank for all the recent perversions and validations of everything from queerdom to the murder of the innocent unborn. JWs paved the way with their lies, abrasive natures and misuse of jurisprudence.

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#14 Feb 5, 2011
Gareth wrote:
<quoted text>
Freedom of speech does NOT include the right to slander and print lies about someone.
If one of your neighbors went round telling your friends that you were a pedophile then you have every right to take him to court to make him stop. That does NOT infringe his freedom of speech.
Everyone wants people to have freedom of speech. But no one wants people to have the freedom to hurt innocent people with lies and slander.
the GB does not allow JW freedom of speech, one cannot even inform another of a pedophile in the congregation, they also paid millions out to GAG victims of child abuse. Free speech! I call them hypocrites.
jhnsn d-s

Spokane, WA

#15 Feb 7, 2011
The full docket of the watchtower should be viewed as a thing of pride?

I guess that would depend on the standards that a person lives within during their life time.

Post #13 is interesting.
jhnsn d-s

Pullman, WA

#16 Feb 8, 2011
noahsday wrote:
<quoted text>the GB does not allow JW freedom of speech, one cannot even inform another of a pedophile in the congregation, they also paid millions out to GAG victims of child abuse. Free speech! I call them hypocrites.
Thats a change since it was reported by media quoted Watch spokeperson JR Brown as saying, "within the congergations evrybody knowns uncle billy has a problem" or to that effect that such conduct was not to be hidden from the immedate members.

The amounts paid out are just the ones that made media and shouldn't be assumed these are accurate representations of all inclusive amonuts paid out.
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jhnsn d-s

Pullman, WA

#17 Feb 10, 2011
In post #13 it's alleged that through the Watchtower Court Victorys they have in effect Let the Genei out of the bottle and share at least some resposibility for the down side to freedom of speech.

To bad their wasn't some chick out their that you could reach around into her back pockets and pull out some cash to do some reasearch on it. Like what cases were the watchtower decisions cited and what effect did it have on judges.

Probably, what I find interest is if the watchtower decisions are considered inspired when authorising the use of litigation or do they look only to the immediate benefits.
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Leo

Baldwin Park, CA

#18 Oct 4, 2012
Putneysays wrote:
Crazy, absurd and deviant groups learned a lot from the JWs. Their driven call to confront others, e.g. Catholics with their in-their-face accusations of being the anti-Christ reaped some young Catholics beating the crap out of them. They turn around and sue the Catholic Church for discrimination. What a fine example for queers and steers! Insult to the very core every civilized inclination in humanity and then sue them when they get angry at you.
Yep... We have the JWs to thank for all the recent perversions and validations of everything from queerdom to the murder of the innocent unborn. JWs paved the way with their lies, abrasive natures and misuse of jurisprudence.
.. First of all a person who is using the word "queers and steers" I have to wonder about but even more disturbing about your comments is how you mention witnesses got beat up by catholics who felt insulted and the witnesses are the bad guys NOT the viloent ones..LMBO! since when is that ok ? real cool dude here. lol!
Leo

Baldwin Park, CA

#19 Oct 4, 2012
noahsday wrote:
<quoted text>the GB does not allow JW freedom of speech, one cannot even inform another of a pedophile in the congregation, they also paid millions out to GAG victims of child abuse. Free speech! I call them hypocrites.
you can say whatever you want but if you speak against the teachings of the society even after you have been counsled and using scriptures to shows the society's standing on the matter then yeah.. youll get kicked out. What church wouldnt do that ? you can still attend but no association until you repented of the questionable actions. If you have strong differing veiws from the society then you have to go somewhere that agrees with your veiws or start your own church. DUH..simple.. come on people!!! LOL if you suspect a pedophile in your church.. you call the police..not go around gossiping to people..this isnt rocket science folks!

Since: Oct 10

Homebush, Australia

#20 Oct 4, 2012
Leo wrote:
<quoted text> you can say whatever you want but if you speak against the teachings of the society even after you have been counsled and using scriptures to shows the society's standing on the matter then yeah.. youll get kicked out. What church wouldnt do that ? you can still attend but no association until you repented of the questionable actions. If you have strong differing veiws from the society then you have to go somewhere that agrees with your veiws or start your own church. DUH..simple.. come on people!!! LOL if you suspect a pedophile in your church.. you call the police..not go around gossiping to people..this isnt rocket science folks!
yes right, so don't warn others of a child molester or you booted out.

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