Muslims Offended by an Inconvenient Truth

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new , and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Pope Benedict, quoting 14th Century ... Full Story
Jesus-is-Muslim

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#68 Sep 12, 2012
By The SWORD or FAITH !

Muslims are required to be just to all people irrespective of their faith. They are also required to respect all those who are faithful and God-conscious people who received messages from Allah. After all, the prophets of the Jews and the Christians are indeed the prophets of the Muslims. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) came to the Christians, the Jews, and the pagans as well as to all mankind. Christians and Jews are asked in return to respect Muslims. Christians and Jews are called "People of the Book" in the Qur'an. Muslims are asked to call on the People of the Book for common terms, namely, to worship Allah, and to work together to solve the problems of the society.

The common image of Islam being spread by an Arab on camel back riding in off the desert with a Qur'an in one hand and a scimitar {a curved sword) in the other offering a choice of either accepting Islam or losing one's head.

As mentioned in the article of apostasy, forcible conversion is prohibited in Islam. The religion did not spread by the sword. There were military confrontations between the Muslim state and the existing world powers of Rome and Persia. However, the areas conquered were put under Muslim administration and the populations were free to maintain their own beliefs. Muslims ruled Egypt, Palestine and Lebanon from the 8th century and sizeable Christian communities continued to exist over the past 13 centuries. Muslims ruled Spain for 700 years and India for 1000 years without the vast majority of the population converting to Islam.

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Jesus-is-Muslim

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#70 Sep 12, 2012
Muhammad's Sword !

Pope Benedict XVI in the service of George W. Bush

By Uri Avner --(Uri Avnery is an Israeli (Jewish) author and activist. He is the head of the Israeli peace movement, "Gush Shalom". http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en )

Source: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp...

Since the days when Roman emperors threw Christians to the lions, the relations between the emperors and the heads of the church have undergone many changes.

Constantine the Great, who became emperor in the year 306 - exactly 1700 years ago - encouraged the practice of Christianity in the empire, which included Palestine. Centuries later, the church split into an Eastern (Orthodox) and a Western (Catholic) part. In the West, the Bishop of Rome, who acquired the title of Pope, demanded that the emperor accept his superiority.

The struggle between the emperors and the popes played a central role in European history and divided the peoples. It knew ups and downs. Some emperors dismissed or expelled a pope, some popes dismissed or excommunicated an emperor. One of the emperors, Henry IV, "walked to Canossa", standing for three days barefoot in the snow in front of the Pope's castle, until the Pope deigned to annul his excommunication.

But there were times when emperors and popes lived in peace with each other. We are witnessing such a period today. Between the present Pope, Benedict XVI, and the present emperor, George Bush II, there exists a wonderful harmony. Last week's speech by the Pope, which aroused a worldwide storm, went well with Bush's crusade against "Islamofascism", in the context of the "clash of civilizations".

In his lecture at a German university, the 265th Pope described what he sees as a huge difference between Christianity and Islam: while Christianity is based on reason, Islam denies it. While Christians see the logic of God's actions, Muslims deny that there is any such logic in the actions of Allah.

As a Jewish atheist, I do not intend to enter the fray of this debate. It is much beyond my humble abilities to understand the logic of the Pope. But I cannot overlook one passage, which concerns me too, as an Israeli living near the fault-line of this "war of civilizations".

In order to prove the lack of reason in Islam, the Pope asserts that the Prophet Muhammad ordered his followers to spread their religion by the sword. According to the Pope, that is unreasonable, because faith is born of the soul, not of the body. How can the sword influence the soul?

To support his case, the Pope quoted - of all people - a Byzantine emperor, who belonged, of course, to the competing Eastern Church. At the end of the 14th century, Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus told of a debate he had - or so he said (its occurrence is in doubt)- with an unnamed Persian Muslim scholar. In the heat of the argument, the emperor (according to himself) flung the following words at his adversary:

Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.

These words give rise to three questions:(a) Why did the Emperor say them?(b) Are they true?(c) Why did the present Pope quote them?

To be continued >>>
Jesus-is-Muslim

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#71 Sep 12, 2012
Continue ...

Muhammad's Sword !

When Manuel II wrote his treatise, he was the head of a dying empire. He assumed power in 1391, when only a few provinces of the once illustrious empire remained. These, too, were already under Turkish threat.

At that point in time, the Ottoman Turks had reached the banks of the Danube. They had conquered Bulgaria and the north of Greece, and had twice defeated relieving armies sent by Europe to save the Eastern Empire. On 29 May 1453, only a few years after Manuel's death, his capital, Constantinople (the present Istanbul), fell to the Turks, putting an end to the empire that had lasted for more than a thousand years.

During his reign, Manuel made the rounds of the capitals of Europe in an attempt to drum up support. He promised to reunite the church. There is no doubt that he wrote his religious treatise in order to incite the Christian countries against the Turks and convince them to start a new crusade. The aim was practical, theology was serving politics.

In this sense, the quote serves exactly the requirements of the present Emperor, George Bush II. He, too, wants to unite the Christian world against the mainly Muslim "Axis of Evil". Moreover, the Turks are again knocking on the doors of Europe, this time peacefully. It is well known that the Pope supports the forces that object to the entry of Turkey into the European Union.

Is there any truth in Manuel's argument?

The pope himself threw in a word of caution. As a serious and renowned theologian, he could not afford to falsify written texts. Therefore, he admitted that the Qur'an specifically forbade the spreading of the faith by force. He quoted the second Sura, Verse 256 (strangely fallible, for a pope, he meant Verse 257) which says: "There must be no coercion in matters of faith."

How can one ignore such an unequivocal statement? The Pope simply argues that this commandment was laid down by the Prophet when he was at the beginning of his career, still weak and powerless, but that later on he ordered the use of the sword in the service of the faith. Such an order does not exist in the Qur'an. True, Muhammad called for the use of the sword in his war against opposing tribes - Christian, Jewish and others - in Arabia, when he was building his state. But that was a political act, not a religious one; basically a fight for territory, not for the spreading of the faith.

Jesus said: "You will recognize them by their fruits." The treatment of other religions by Islam must be judged by a simple test: how did the Muslim rulers behave for more than a thousand years, when they had the power to "spread the faith by the sword"?

Well, they just did not.

For many centuries, the Muslims ruled Greece. Did the Greeks become Muslims? Did anyone even try to Islamize them? On the contrary, Christian Greeks held the highest positions in the Ottoman administration. The Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanians, Hungarians and other European nations lived at one time or another under Ottoman rule and clung to their Christian faith. Nobody compelled them to become Muslims and all of them remained devoutly Christian.

True, the Albanians did convert to Islam, and so did the Bosniaks. But nobody argues that they did this under duress. They adopted Islam in order to become favourites of the government and enjoy the fruits.

To be continued >>
Jesus-is-Muslim

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#72 Sep 12, 2012
Continue ...

Muhammad's Sword !

In 1099, the Crusaders conquered Jerusalem and massacred its Muslim and Jewish inhabitants indiscriminately, in the name of the gentle Jesus. At that time, 400 years into the occupation of Palestine by the Muslims, Christians were still the majority in the country. Throughout this long period, no effort was made to impose Islam on them. Only after the expulsion of the Crusaders from the country, did the majority of the inhabitants start to adopt the Arabic language and the Muslim faith - and they were the forefathers of most of today's Palestinians.

There no evidence whatsoever of any attempt to impose Islam on the Jews. As is well known, under Muslim rule the Jews of Spain enjoyed a bloom the like of which the Jews did not enjoy anywhere else until almost our time. Poets like Yehuda Halevy wrote in Arabic, as did the great Maimonides. In Muslim Spain, Jews were ministers, poets, scientists. In Muslim Toledo, Christian, Jewish and Muslim scholars worked together and translated the ancient Greek philosophical and scientific texts. That was, indeed, the Golden Age. How would this have been possible, had the Prophet decreed the "spreading of the faith by the sword"?

What happened afterwards is even more telling. When the Catholics reconquered Spain from the Muslims, they instituted a reign of religious terror. The Jews and the Muslims were presented with a cruel choice: to become Christians, to be massacred or to leave. And where did the hundreds of thousand of Jews, who refused to abandon their faith, escape? Almost all of them were received with open arms in the Muslim countries. The Sephardi ("Spanish") Jews settled all over the Muslim world, from Morocco in the west to Iraq in the east, from Bulgaria (then part of the Ottoman Empire) in the north to Sudan in the south. Nowhere were they persecuted. They knew nothing like the tortures of the Inquisition, the flames of the auto-da-fe, the pogroms, the terrible mass-expulsions that took place in almost all Christian countries, up to the Holocaust.

Why? Because Islam expressly prohibited any persecution of the "peoples of the book". In Islamic society, a special place was reserved for Jews and Christians. They did not enjoy completely equal rights, but almost. They had to pay a special poll tax, but were exempted from military service - a trade-off that was quite welcome to many Jews. It has been said that Muslim rulers frowned upon any attempt to convert Jews to Islam even by gentle persuasion - because it entailed the loss of taxes.

Every honest Jew who knows the history of his people cannot but feel a deep sense of gratitude to Islam, which has protected the Jews for fifty generations, while the Christian world persecuted the Jews and tried many times "by the sword" to get them to abandon their faith.

The story about "spreading the faith by the sword" is an evil legend, one of the myths that grew up in Europe during the great wars against the Muslims - the reconquista of Spain by the Christians, the Crusades and the repulsion of the Turks, who almost conquered Vienna. I suspect that the German Pope, too, honestly believes in these fables. That means that the leader of the Catholic world, who is a Christian theologian in his own right, did not make the effort to study the history of other religions.

Why did he utter these words in public? And why now?

There is no escape from viewing them against the background of the new Crusade of Bush and his evangelist supporters, with his slogans of "Islamofascism" and the "global war on terror" - when "terrorism" has become a synonym for Muslims. For Bush's handlers, this is a cynical attempt to justify the domination of the world's oil resources. Not for the first time in history, a religious robe is spread to cover the nakedness of economic interests; not for the first time, a robbers' expedition becomes a Crusade.

END.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#73 Sep 12, 2012
Dee wrote:
Well, let's see.
Muslims you say "deathdrone" are going to takeover England. USA is going to takeover the Middle East. Mexican illegal aliens, LaRaza, LULAC, MEChA...they're going to take over America...drug cartels are already taking over all of Mexico.....
What do you say, let's hold a drawing. Islam and the Pope can manage-oversee it. Let's write the names of all the nations, and draw one at a time, to see who is going to live where.
Prhaps the pope and Islam will rule the entire world together?
buck

AOL

#74 Sep 13, 2012
I think this unknown from Saudi should have taken his advice and not enter this post, he calls it a debate, NOT! he makes it a debate by all the space he took up with cut and paste.
and with no real point of view, this guy seems to be the offended muslim. lol
Jesus-is-Muslim

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#75 Sep 13, 2012
buck wrote:
I think this unknown from Saudi should have taken his advice and not enter this post, he calls it a debate, NOT! he makes it a debate by all the space he took up with cut and paste.
and with no real point of view, this guy seems to be the offended muslim. lol
If you consider me "this UNKNOWN from Saudi Arabia" , then what are you called:'buck from AOL'!!!!!

Instead of attacking me peronally, you could have answered/responded to the historical facts in my posts if you are able.
buck

AOL

#77 Sep 13, 2012
this is a free post comment, it doesn't require me to personally respond to your posts verbatim.
I was simply repeating your words from your post.
it is obvious that you have a problem with your own posts, or with someone repeating your words.
get over it! proves that you are the offended muslim when you get down to it.
you are making a debate, opposite of your post

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#80 Sep 16, 2012
anywho wrote:
A six hundred year old mirror is as difficult to look into as a new one if it shows you what you do not wish to believe or confirms what you have tried to deny. Islam is a sham and continues to reinforce their hypocrisy with such utterly barbaric displays as shrieking, foaming crowds burning effigies and flags and calling for 'death to (fill in the blank)'. That's all they have...or want. Do these people work or just riot on command for a living?
what ever they do, the did it first for the church of rome

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#81 Sep 17, 2012
PEACEONEARTH wrote:
IS THIS THE RUPTURE OF THE CHURCH? Look at the picture of angry muslims? Is this a test from God? Is Satan testing Muslims to prove God they are not as holy as they claim to be? Religions agaist other religions? That is why is better not to belong to any religious - the rupture of the church is comming.... I hope it's all churches! God is within ourselves... that is all there is. We all know right from wrong.... We don't need any religions; churches, synagogues, congregations to brain wash humans!
WE DON'T NEED ANY BODY OUT of any country because religious believes... JUST DO NOT ALLOW RELIGION AT ALL. The Pope would not allow birth control! this makes me a sinner! HELL WITH RELIGION! I'm a good person regardless. THE RUPTURE OF THE CHURCH IS COMMING! thank you God!
You are only good by the merits and works of Jesus Christ. "There is none good but God."

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#82 Sep 17, 2012
Jesus-is-Muslim wrote:
<quoted text>
If you consider me "this UNKNOWN from Saudi Arabia" , then what are you called:'buck from AOL'!!!!!
Instead of attacking me peronally, you could have answered/responded to the historical facts in my posts if you are able.
J.I.M. This is for you in your native tongue:) www.scribd.com/doc/78059937/Arabic-version ...
buck

AOL

#83 Sep 17, 2012
WTG truthsayer777 I applaud you whoever and wherever you may be.
nice way to decrease the name of this unknown muslim just J.I.M. lol
did you ask him if he can still speak his native tongue lol
at least he is a little smart to know that I am
buck from aol LOL

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#84 Sep 17, 2012
Richie T wrote:
<quoted text>Prhaps the pope and Islam will rule the entire world together?
maybe they do

Jesus - is - Muslim

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#85 Sep 17, 2012
Thanks for those Christians in this thread who has nothing to say except using personal insults for demonstrating the biblical true ethics!

Thanks for demonstrating to us how much you do NOT trust your Bible and how much you do not obey your biblical Jesus as he orders you in your own bible:

Jesus said:
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" [Matthew 5:44](KJV)

"Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." [1 Corinthians 6:10](KJV)

Then do not wonder why people in large masses are leaving christianity and never look back!
buck

AOL

#86 Sep 18, 2012
BTW Jesus of the Bible is not muslim and that is one remark that is offensive just because you want Him to be and maybe because that is your ethnic background. Are you speaking of another Jesus that you know you must be lol
People leave christianity because they choose to
we all have free will that is being a coward when you blame another for how you decide.
If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything and that holds true for today!
the truth

Carol Stream, IL

#87 Sep 18, 2012
anywho wrote:
A six hundred year old mirror is as difficult to look into as a new one if it shows you what you do not wish to believe or confirms what you have tried to deny. Islam is a sham and continues to reinforce their hypocrisy with such utterly barbaric displays as shrieking, foaming crowds burning effigies and flags and calling for 'death to (fill in the blank)'. That's all they have...or want. Do these people work or just riot on command for a living?
the crusades,
Salem witch trials
The earth was flat
All this and more because of Christians. Not too long ago Christians were a VERY violent and paranoid people....
buck

AOL

#88 Sep 19, 2012
that is what you believe? 100%?
don't be so narrow minded
not to say there isn't some truth in what you say.
buck

AOL

#89 Sep 19, 2012
BTW the subject is not about christians, your truth is digressing away from the post topic.
It's about offended muslims.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#90 Sep 19, 2012
Jesus - is - Muslim wrote:
Thanks for those Christians in this thread who has nothing to say except using personal insults for demonstrating the biblical true ethics!
Thanks for demonstrating to us how much you do NOT trust your Bible and how much you do not obey your biblical Jesus as he orders you in your own bible:
Jesus said:
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" [Matthew 5:44](KJV)
"Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." [1 Corinthians 6:10](KJV)
Then do not wonder why people in large masses are leaving christianity and never look back!
And Jesus chased the moneychangers from the temple with a whip. There is a time to be a lamb for the Kingdom of God and there is a time to be a lion. Righteous indignation is not a sin. You like to only quote the messages of Jesus that you agree with. How about: "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by me." Islam teaches Jesus was a prophet, and a prophet does not lie, correct?
Jesus - is - Muslim

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#91 Sep 19, 2012
Truthsayer777 wrote:
<quoted text>..... How about: "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by me." Islam teaches Jesus was a prophet, and a prophet does not lie, correct?
Yes, and Every prophet/messenger at his time would have said the same to his followers. Every prophet during his time must been also "The Way, The Truth,.... and that no one comes to the Father (God) Except Through him" !!!?

You can not come to God (know God) unless you follow the prophet sent by God. Simple and clear.

Moreover, read the whole passages before that (don't take it out of its context) and you'd clearly discover the truth.

Also, as stated in your Bible:

[Eph:4:6]-"One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

And If Jesus (peace be upon him) said:

[John:5:37]-"And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape."

Then How can Jesus be God !!?

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