Grammy-award winning gospel singer Sandi Patty will be leaving Anderson to move back to her birthplace: Oklahoma City, Okla.Read more
#84 May 30, 2012
Hey Janet, you are way off track by your reply comments. Why don't you read what the person has said, maybe read it a few times until you get a clear picture of what they are actually trying to say.
It is obvious they know about what goes on there at Anderson college.
Sounds like you don't think the scriptures carry that much weight to have a real affect on a person's life. and that they have no real value for any use. All scripture has serves its purpose
and should be used to correct if necessary.
#85 May 30, 2012
If you ignore scripture, you are in essence ignoring the Creator. Read John 1:1
#86 Jun 8, 2012
Take a look at our church's history and present practice concerning divorce and remarriage.
Once the church started to ignore God’s Word on that, they are now trying to ignore His Word on homosexuality.
Twenty-five years ago, the clergy was not allowed to perform weddings for people who were divorced.
While there are many scriptural references
"forbidding the remarriage of divorced persons," the clearest is found in the gospel of Luke;
“Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery.”
What's more, in Luke’s gospel, these are not Luke's words, they are not Moses' words, or Peter's or Paul's. These words are attributed straight from the mouth of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God.
Hence, the Church did not perform remarriages, because it believed that to do so, would be to bless a union that Jesus Himself describes as adulterous.
In the gospel of Luke, Jesus makes it clear that the new marriage is viewed by Him to be adultery. So what happened?
Our culture changed. While divorce was rare 50 years ago, it is no longer rare anywhere.
The result is; now our pews are being populated by couples in second, third and fourth marriages. We stopped seeing these marriages as Jesus Himself sees them, as adulterous unions.
How can the Church join unions that Jesus Himself, according to Luke, defined as adulterous, I ask you? The Word of God will not change, even if the Church does!
#87 Jun 8, 2012
"Whosoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery.”
A Very Clear Verse.
Luke is writing to a Greek or Gentile audience, which would be us.
Divorce + Remarriage = Adultery
That is what Jesus said in the red letters of your Bible.
The couple sign divorce papers, then participate in another marriage ceremony with a different person and then Jesus calls that relationship adultery.
The question that disturbs so many people is this...why did Jesus call it adultery after the divorce and remarriage ceremony? The conclusion has to be that the couple is not really remarried.
Adultery is having sexual relations with someone who is not your spouse.
It would not be called adultery if the second marriage was honored in God’s sight.
After the remarriage, Jesus said they are committing adultery against their husband or wife, so the divorce did not dissolve the marriage and the remarriage ceremony did not make them remarried.
So once again, if Jesus thought that the remarriage ceremony had made them remarried...
HE WOULD HAVE NEVER CALLED IT ADULTERY.
A Literal and Consistent New Testament
Version of Luke 16:18 as translated by Dr. Donald Nash
“Everyone divorcing his wife and marrying another, practices adultery, and the one marrying a woman who has been divorced from her husband practices adultery.”
It would be fearful to disagree with Jesus on these verses. I can only repeat what Jesus said.
Are you repeating what Jesus said when it comes to the Marriage Scriptures?
#88 Jun 8, 2012
Professor David Engelsma:
Holy Scripture forbids remarriage after a divorce.
What we witness today is simply the logical, inevitable outcome of the approval of adulterous remarriages. The evil tree now bears its evil fruit. And the fruit is exceedingly bitter, both in the dishonoring of God and in the destruction of marriage, family, husbands, wives, children, grandparents, grandchildren, and others.
To be sure, this approval of remarriage adultery is a nasty, disgusting business. A fellow church member may well tempt my wife to leave our marriage, then, after he divorces his wife, he may remarry mine. If he confesses his sin of adultery and my wife does the same, he may then be allowed membership with me in the same church, while living with my wife.
What happens to all the children involved, only the devil, who is behind this whole evil business knows. And this grim, damnable state of affairs actually continues on in "evangelical" and "conservative" churches today.
This is what the churches are approving…even though the Word of God teaches…in language that a child can understand…
"A wife is married to her husband as long as he lives.” 1 Corinthians 7:39
When a man obtains a divorce and marries another, he is committing adultery. The relationship is an adulterous relationship and he goes on committing adultery as long as he maintains it.
Jesus Christ forbids remarriage for the divorced. The churches approval of remarriage has brought the church into open war with Jesus Christ.
It is unbiblical to view marriage as a contract that man can dissolve by his own hands and at his will. Scripture teaches that marriage is a lifelong bond established by God and that God makes the two one flesh.
Only the death of one of them dissolves the bond, so that the other has the liberty to marry again. 1 Corinthians 7:39
Let it be shouted from the housetops:
Divorce does not dissolve marriage.
Only God puts asunder what He has joined together and He puts asunder by death.
#89 Jun 8, 2012
#90 Jul 14, 2012
Ah, yes. Right so far. But scriptural context demands that we include the allowance for divorce for the reason of adultery. Adultery trashed the marriage. Divorce is allowed. The marriage is no more. They are no more "one." Each is free to remarry. Repentence is another issue.
#91 Jul 14, 2012
"But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." ~Matt.5:32
Adultery is (one of the) biblical grounds for dissolution of marriage. It is the plainest stated grounds. If someone's marriage stands between them and God, it is grounds for divorce. They are "unequally yoked." Applying scriptural truth, not just proof-texting, will reveal other grounds where the Christian is allowed to dissolve a marriage. Then, there is the overriding scriptural truth that is sin can and will be forgiven. Forgiveness is complete and all-cleansing. When our sins are forgiven we are cleansed and free to start all over again, our past is behind us and forgotten. The Christian walk is not a compilation of proof-texts but a changed life grounded in Christ and based on love.
#92 Aug 23, 2012
Exodus 20 covers the Law as given to Moses written with God's own hand.
You shall not (9) have other gods; make and worship idols, use the name of the Lord in vain; disrespect your parents, kill, commit adultery, steal, lie, and covet and you shall (1)Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy; six days you have for labor, the 7th is the Lord's and on that day you are to keep it holy by not working your regular work nor doing your own pleasure for the Lord made the earth in 6 days and on the 7th day HE RESTED.
Now, there is also a text that says if you break one you are guilty of them all. Does that mean you can't be forgiven; brought into rightness with God through confession of sin. ONce you confess Jesus says God is faithful to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. AND HE CASTS OUR SINS INTO THE SEA OF FORGETFULNESS. That means no one has a right to go fishing in that sea.
God did not require David to 'divorce' Bathsheba and he had several living wives. Matter of fact, the Lord CHOSE THEIR OFFSPRING, SOLOMON, TO BE KING IN DAVID'S PLACE. SOUNDS LIKE FORGIVENESS TO ME AND UNLIKE DAVID, SANDI NOR HER HUSBAND HAD THEIR SPOUSES MURDERED.
BUT MANY OF YOU ARE SHOWING FAR LESS OF THE LOVINGKINDNESS THAT GOD HAS SHOWN YOU IN THAT WHILE WE WERE GOD'S ENEMY CHRIST DIED FOR US.
Show some Christian charity. Whether or not she should divorce her current husband, break up another household, return to John, who may or may not want her; who may or may not be remarried himself is between Sandi and her husbands. Yes she has two husbands and her current husband has two wives.
God takes us where we are when we come to him. If he forgives those who are
keeping work, family, friends, football or anything else in front of HIM
worshipping idols (American or otherwise),lying,
say his name in every sentence or act in a way that brings disgrace to His holy and rightous name,
Working every day of the week and not keeping the 7th day Sabbath holy as outlined in the WORD
disrespecting their parents,
lying on everyone and not taking responsibility for one's own actions
covetous to the point you can concentrate on anything else,
THEN whether you do one or two doesn't give you the authority to comdemn any one else.
God says that He is bringing every thing including our thoughts into the Judgement when HE comes which is soon. Perhaps all of our energies should be focused on being one of the prepared virgins whose lamps were trimmed and burning in preparation for the Bridgegroom; our soon coming KING.
Time is moving quickly towards eternity. Do we really want God to take the same attitude towards us that some of you are demonstrating towards Sandi and Don. They were wrong. If they have asked for forgiveness who are we to say God hasn't granted it. Perhaps we need to get some of that for ourselves. For the same forgiveness you give out will be given back to you 100 fold.
May God help us to focus on what is really important: The Coming King IS at the door. BE YOU READY.
#93 Sep 4, 2012
yes, I agree with you about everything will be brought into judgement whether it be good or whether it is evil. These words are found in
Ecclesiastes 12, verse 14. But, as it's been often
repeated, do we ebrace sin? NO, GOD forbid!
And if we fellowship with those in sin, we are also
partakers of their sin as it is stated in Ephesians
chapter 5, zero in on verse 7 and verse 11 & 12.
One cannot just take one verse here or one verse
there, all must be considered.
Romans 7, verse 2 is good to remember, "For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to
her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband." let's add verse 3 for more of conclusion
to the matter, "So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man."
JOHN HELVERING IS VERY MUCH ALIVE! So what does that leave Sandi Patty as? yes, food for thought.
what has been established in heaven is forever, and no man can change it.
James chapter 5, verse 20, " Let him know, that he which convereth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."
#94 Sep 4, 2012
alabama Kaytee, stick to the topic ok, that way you won't confuse yourself as well as readers.
The main focus is Sandi Patty and if she is living in adultery, and if she is considered in her current state of living "an adulteress" as the word of GOD has written. And what it states in the book of Romans 7 is quite clear. Or maybe you are one of those who disects the word for deeper meaning, maybe you don't believe when it says,
"thou shalt not lie" or "thou shalt not steal", the Bible is not clear enough. food for thought.
#95 Sep 7, 2012
OK, not to repeat my man "john1717" but it is quite clear in the book of 1 Corinthians about a man and a woman who are married.
In chapter 7 it says " And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord,Let not the wife depart from her husband:
But and if she depart,let her remain unmarried, or
be reconciled to her husband: and let not the
husband put away his wife."
THE LORD COMMANDS THIS!
So all of you who deem Sandi Patty's marriage ok,
now what do you say?
Sandi Patty was ok to leave John and not because she was having an affair before hand. but it's ok
to leave, but she should've stay unmarried!
Or go back to husband John as it says.
THE BIBLE IS QUITE CLEAR.
For those who call this judging, read the before chapter 6 in this same book.
In the second verse "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" food for thought people
#96 Sep 10, 2012
For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17. I laugh when "good" people say we should not "judge" others for their behavior. The scripture is clear. In the church we DO judge those in the church is light of the word of God. If they are found in disobedience they are rebuked by those in authority in the church. If they fail to correct their behavior, they are exposed to the whole church. Since most if now all the "Christian celebreties do not appear to be "under the authority" of any certain church discipline, when they fall or are found to be in sin it is the JOB of believing fans to judge them according to their evil deeds and deal with them accordingly. The Church of God, in which Sandy grew up used to be a holiness group. They have long left that doctrince and joined with the cheap grace movement.
#97 Sep 10, 2012
Thank you Vince for joining the true Believers!
and for not compromising Bible beliefs.
#98 Sep 22, 2012
"Not very long ago, a woman-friend wrote to me saying, "I asked a pastor friend of mine what he thinks about remarriage after divorce. His answer was,'The gospel is about grace, and grace means you can re-marry without shame.'"
That is NOT true!
How Grace Does Not Stop Remarriage from Being Sin by Myron Horst
The topic of the church granting a remarried couple grace often comes up with the subject of divorce and remarriage.
The argument that the church can grant a remarried couple grace to continue in their remarriage relationship has become a stumbling block for many.
To understand grace better, I did an in-depth study of grace in the Bible. I found some interesting facts.
The main fact is that grace is from God. Most of the verses in the New Testament that use the word grace also state that it is from God or Jesus. Nowhere is there any verse that the church has any authority to grant another grace for their sins. We can bless another with God's grace, but not from us.
When the church grants another person grace in a sin area so that the sin is no longer viewed as sin, the church is setting themselves up as God and making the church equal with God.
This line of thinking has occurred before in Jeremiah 7:9-10: "Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not; And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?"
They thought they had received grace to continue in their sins but they had not.
Grace is not an allowance to sin a little more than what the Bible says.
Grace is not a license from God or the church for one to continue in sin as many would lead us to believe.
Grace is not God overlooking our sin as we continue to sin after we know better.
Romans 6:1-2 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"
Romans 6:15 "What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."
There is no grace for those who willfully continue to sin and don't want to stop or change because it would be "too difficult".
God's grace is not a license to do what is right in one's own eyes, and follow one's own beliefs, even if it is contrary to Scripture.
Who forgives sin? Can Christians grant forgiveness for sin against God? No. We can only grant forgiveness for offences to us.
We cannot grant a person grace for offences that they are committing against God when they have not repented to God and stopped their sin.
When Jesus through grace forgave the woman caught in adultery, He also told her to do something. He said "go and sin no more!" Jesus did not give the woman grace so that she could continue to commit adultery. Jesus told her she had to stop committing adultery.
When a divorced and remarried couple repents and receives forgiveness from God for the adultery that they have committed, they must change so that they can also obey Jesus' command to go and sin no more.
If they go on sinning and committing adultery they will not receive God's grace but rather incur His judgment. There cannot be grace and mercy without justice.
When a person realizes that they have sinned by divorcing their spouse and remarrying another, and they go to God and confess their sin and FORSAKE their sin of remarriage (get out of the remarriage/which is an adulterous relationship in God's sight), God forgives them.
It is only through the grace of God that they receive forgiveness. Without God's grace none of us would be saved because we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God.
"A wife is married to her husband as long as he lives."
1 Corinthians 7:39
Find the TRUTH at:
#99 Sep 22, 2012
"John Piper teaches the one who is forsaken, who has not remarried, but their spouse has--must remain unmarried, honoring the vows they took before the Lord. In other words, THEY are still bound to their covenant spouse.
He teaches that only DEATH dissolves the union joined by God.
I dialogued with his ministry for quite some time about this and the man I dialogued with, Dan, told me at the end of the conversation--the 2nd marriage probably IS adultery, but God's Grace allows for it to continue.
I was astounded to hear such a thing. A relationship IS sin and one can remain in it? Where do we find such a thing in scripture?”
–Cindy @ http://www.cadz.net/mdr.html
#100 Sep 24, 2012
John1717 I can appreciate what you're saying bro but can you condense it some lol
try not to shove so much down the throat at once
#101 Oct 2, 2012
What is repentance in this case then? One broken hearted spouse is left not knowing what to do with his part of a marriage vow made before God. The adultry must be repented of, which means the love birds don't get to live happily ever after but instead must live celebate lives dedicated to God. That is repentance.
#102 Oct 2, 2012
Ahh yes. But be very careful not to tread on the blood of Jesus as you examine the mess you are in, see no way out except to continue with the affair/adultry, proceed with the destruction of your marriage and family (though the offended spouse or spouses desire to restore the marriage) and intend to come before the throne of God begging forgiveness and with committment to do better in the new relationship/marriage. It is dangerous territory and should not be tread upon. Knowingly violating God's plan with the intention of repenting when you have yourself positioned in the new relationship is trampling on my savior's shed blood and it offends me.
#103 Oct 3, 2012
I remeber hearing her tell us at a concert shortly after the birth of her twins,(I think she had just had a miscarriage and then became pregnant with her twins.) She said, "how like God to answer my prayer and give me 'the baby I lost' plus another. Double my blessing." Does she think the same holds true for marriages? I remember quoting her words so often as I waited, waited, and waited to become a mother myself. Waiting for God to double my blessing. Well, I was able to adopt twins and was busy raising them to serve God and become moral people. When they were 14 years old their Dad left us for another woman. Now, after barely seeing their Dad for 5 years (and having a single - broken hearted mom to get them through the toughest teen years) they are reconnecting with their father. I am glad for them. They deserve all of the people possible to love them. That includes the "other woman" who replaced me in my husband's heart. In order for the kids and grandkids to enjoy birthdays, graduations, etc. without sadness and stress we are all in attendance at parties and gatherings. I behave myself with perfect grace and Christian love. But I'm telling you. It takes a lot out of me and I am depressed for several days after the ordeals. I am alone because remarriage makes me an adultress. At the very minumum, my remarriage would take away my husband's chance for repentance and restoration. Divorce is a difficult journey for those wishing to gollow God's will. I believe God watches these things very closely.
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