Jessica Lange bashes Iraq war in grad...

Jessica Lange bashes Iraq war in graduation speech

There are 267 comments on the TwinCities.com story from May 27, 2008, titled Jessica Lange bashes Iraq war in graduation speech. In it, TwinCities.com reports that:

Oscar-winner and Minnesota native Jessica Lange bashed the Bush administration and denounced the war in Iraq during a commencement address at Sarah Lawrence College.

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Phil

Saint Paul, MN

#270 Jun 8, 2008
Peter wrote:
<quoted text>
The surge helped quell the violence, thanks, I know that probably hurt. The nation is increasing the size of the force, but it getting their with the current structure. A draft in a nation of 300 million people to raise, say, another 100 thousand? That doesn't do much to spread the burden, it would still apply only to the few, just randomly rather than by choice. Not much of a plan. You don't want chaos and you don't want us there. Me neither, but they're mutually exclusive, so pick one. Revive your liberal idealism.
So you are saying the purpose of the draft would be to spread the burden. I don't see that as the purpose. I see the military purpose, to get adequate troop strength so we don't have to abuse our existing troops and reserves.

I have picked one. I want our troops out of Iraq because I think sooner or later there is going to be a civil war there regardless of how long we stay. All our troops are doing is postponing the inevitable, and I don't see the point in more Americans dieing and being maimed for that purpose. My liberal idealism doesn't support using the American military for nation building. That isn't the purpose of our military forces. Our President didn't used to think so either. Oct. 11, 2000 - George W. Bush:
"I think what we need to do is convince people who live in the lands they live in to build the nations. Maybe I'm missing something here. I mean we're going to have kind of a nation-building corps from America. Absolutely not. Our military is meant to fight and win war. That's what it's meant to do and when it gets overextended, morale drops".
Peter

Houston, TX

#271 Jun 8, 2008
Phil wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are saying the purpose of the draft would be to spread the burden. I don't see that as the purpose. I see the military purpose, to get adequate troop strength so we don't have to abuse our existing troops and reserves.
I have picked one. I want our troops out of Iraq because I think sooner or later there is going to be a civil war there regardless of how long we stay. All our troops are doing is postponing the inevitable, and I don't see the point in more Americans dieing and being maimed for that purpose. My liberal idealism doesn't support using the American military for nation building. That isn't the purpose of our military forces. Our President didn't used to think so either. Oct. 11, 2000 - George W. Bush:
"I think what we need to do is convince people who live in the lands they live in to build the nations. Maybe I'm missing something here. I mean we're going to have kind of a nation-building corps from America. Absolutely not. Our military is meant to fight and win war. That's what it's meant to do and when it gets overextended, morale drops".
OK, I disagree, but at least that argument hangs together and is consistent. 9-11 changed everything for me. Their backwardness is a threat. Dragging them closer to modern life is a way to make things safer, although it's a mess along the way. Bush was trying to push the fast forward button.

Do the numbers though and you'd see that a draft would raise just way too many people.
Phil

Saint Paul, MN

#272 Jun 8, 2008
Peter wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, I disagree, but at least that argument hangs together and is consistent. 9-11 changed everything for me. Their backwardness is a threat. Dragging them closer to modern life is a way to make things safer, although it's a mess along the way. Bush was trying to push the fast forward button.
Do the numbers though and you'd see that a draft would raise just way too many people.
We can draft whatever number we like.

I think Bush went into Iraq with good intentions. If you read about Bernard Lewis and the Lewis Doctrine, it makes sense. The Middle East contains some of the most repressive regimes in the world, and that is what Lewis considers the root of Islamic terrorism. If you want to attack the problem at its roots, you have to address the repressive regimes. You have to find a way to replace them with democracies. But there are a couple of problems with that. For one, I just don't believe we can impose democracy at gunpoint. Our military is not that kind of tool, nor should it be. The second problem is the fact that we need those regimes to be friendly to us because we need their oil. When we start regime change, we don't know what we are going to get. Iraq is a good example. And suppose we do succeed in establishing a democracy, and the people promptly vote in a government that is hostile to us. Then what?? We can't afford to mess around with regime change in the Middle East, and we don't really have the leverage we need to make the current governments change their ways, because we need their oil. We are stuck because of our oil dependence.
Peter

Houston, TX

#273 Jun 8, 2008
Phil wrote:
<quoted text>
We can draft whatever number we like.
I think Bush went into Iraq with good intentions. If you read about Bernard Lewis and the Lewis Doctrine, it makes sense. The Middle East contains some of the most repressive regimes in the world, and that is what Lewis considers the root of Islamic terrorism. If you want to attack the problem at its roots, you have to address the repressive regimes. You have to find a way to replace them with democracies. But there are a couple of problems with that. For one, I just don't believe we can impose democracy at gunpoint. Our military is not that kind of tool, nor should it be. The second problem is the fact that we need those regimes to be friendly to us because we need their oil. When we start regime change, we don't know what we are going to get. Iraq is a good example. And suppose we do succeed in establishing a democracy, and the people promptly vote in a government that is hostile to us. Then what?? We can't afford to mess around with regime change in the Middle East, and we don't really have the leverage we need to make the current governments change their ways, because we need their oil. We are stuck because of our oil dependence.
Yeah, but then the draft just becomes this inverse lottery ticket. Given the small numbers involved compared to the population, it's better just to increase the incentives so that people want to do it.

Yes, that's interesting about Lewis. I watched a lengthy piece on CSPAN with a guy from the Naval War College talking about what it's all about. He discussed this idea of counter-shock, where we give the Islamists a front line to defend. If we prevail on the Iraq front, that's a really big loss. They have to commit a lot of resources to make sure that doesn't happen. The idea is to play this on offense as well as defense. Taking a shot at creating what we're trying to create right there in the center of it all is audacious. The idea is that our troubles come from Islam confronting modernity. We can't stop it from happening and neither can they and oil just brought us into deeper contact earlier than what would've happened eventually anyways. Bush's idea is to hurry things up, to get the change made and this turbulent era over-with before they get nuclear weapons. It's all big risk and it'll take time and progress is measured in things like the percent of woman in Afghanistan that know how to read. We're in for a 50 to 100 year struggle with these goofs.
Joe Corrilo

United States

#274 Jun 18, 2008
HooHa wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course I'm talking about you war detractors and in Gitmo is exactly where you belong with the rest of the terrorists for giving aid and comfort to the enemy. You're the ones who are causing the war to drag on. The purpose of a war is to demoralize and defeat the enemy, not give them reason to continue fighting which is what you terrorist lovers have done. If you want the war to end, join them and try to stop us terrorist lover. Otherwise, shut your traps and let the military and the President defeat the enemy however they see fit.
Baaaa.....ahahahaha.....ahhhh. ...baa ! No wonder were in such trouble.....Can you say DUH ?
Joe Corrilo

United States

#275 Jun 18, 2008
Can you say sheep ?
Joe Corrilo

United States

#276 Jun 18, 2008
Phil wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL. Now you're just making me laugh. That's got to rank as the dumbest post I've read in a long time. But keep trying, you may just top yourself.
Man, o man...if the patriot wasn't so frigggin scary, I'd be laughing my as off at such a blind idiot..... But he's just plain scary !

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