Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038

Apr 25, 2012 Full story: Psychology Today 22,434

My blog posts on religion have attracted a lot of controversy. Religious people are annoyed by my claim that belief in God will go the way of horse transportation, and for much the same reason, specifically an improved standard of living.

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Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#9232 Nov 22, 2012
Dubbadub wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly some of them are fanatical. Yeah true I think its important to have tolerance of peoples beliefs with regard to their faith or lack of it.
I used to have time for Dawkins, didn't agree with all he said but thought he was interesting all the same. I saw him then slagging off Mitt Romney on some US chat show because Romney was a Mormon. Now I believe Mormonism is not true, but I thought Dawkins slagging Romney off over believing in it was a bit below the belt. He went down in my estimation a bit because of that.
Obviously Romney like him or not, isn't stupid, he wouldn't have been running for President if he was. He has his religious beliefs, I think they deserve a bit of respect no matter how far out people might think they are.
And you don't know much about the history of Mormonism.

Joseph Smith was a con man throughout his life and in everything he did. I'll give him credit for coming up with a way to commit adultery with another man's wife and make him sound godly at the same time. That's also what led him to his death by a mob while he was sitting in a jail cell.

The Mormon religious history went downhill from there. And yet they have managed to grow beyond into an authoritarian cult with some political influence.

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Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#9233 Nov 22, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Give me the name of a Single Muslim Scholar who says that Bukhari is Quran?
Just a single one will suffice!!
And I am amazed at your courage to address me as a KAFIR, do you know what KAFIR means?
Is this where you nitpick that the Hadiths carry less weight than the Qu'ran? But still quite important to Islam?

Do you really think Mohammed would admit to be a pedophile? I don't think he could pull that off and make it socially acceptable even with his reputation as the next-to-last prophet.

How times have changed.

Your prophet would have been convicted of child molestation in today's modern world. I doubt even Allah could save him from the wrath of the prisoners. They may be monsters but they don't like child rapers. Who says the worst of the worst of us don't have some basic moral conduct? What does that say about your prophet?

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Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#9234 Nov 22, 2012
MUQ wrote:
Which “Sword” the Prophet Used against his enemies: Part-43
Enemies of Islam represent our prophet as a very cruel and blood thirsty man, who would kill his “opponents, enemies and any one who disagreed with him” at “the drop of hat” and all his adversaries would be “terrified” at the mere sight of him.
The picture is far from true, let us look at some incidents from the life of prophet, as what was “this sword which killed the enmity for ever”
The Case of : ABDULLAH BIN ABU UMAIYYAH, of MAKKAH
ABDULLAH BIN ABU UMAIYYAH was the son of ATIKAH, the Aunt of Prophet. He was therefore a first cousin of Prophet. He knew the prophet from his childhood.
But when prophet declared his mission, this ABDULLAH not only declined to accept his mission, but joined the party who were his bitterest enemies.
Prophet was hoping that he, would have some regard to the kinship and close relation which he had with prophet. In those days, ties of kinship accounted for many considerations, but there were a few people in Makkah who disregarded even these ties and exceeded in their bounds. This Abdullah was also one of those.
Prophet was very disappointed when he saw the attitudes of this Abdullah and ABUSUFYAN, the Son of HARITH, another cousin of prophet. Prophet bore with dignity, all their insults and taunts during his thirteen years of his mission in Makkah.
The thing which really hurt prophet the most was when this Abdullah said to the prophet “I would not believe in you, untill you bring a ladder and go up into sky, then come back from there bringing a written down book and four angels who give testimony that this is a book of Allah….and even then I doubt if I will believe you”!!
Coming from a first cousin of prophet, these were harsh and strange word indeed!!
Prophet migrated to Madina along with his followers, and this Abdullah remained in Makkah along with those enemies of prophet……time took a turn and after eight years prophet returned to Makkah in full glory. It ws time when these people recognised their mistakes.
Abdullah and Abu SUFYAN, went to prophet to ask for his pardon. Prophet turned his face away from them. His wife UMME SALAMAH, said to the prophet “Your cousins Abdullah and Abu SUFYAN are at your door asking for your pardon”
“What sort of cousins are these to me, do you know what they did and said to me while I was in Makkah” said the prophet and refused to meet them.
They went disheartened and met Ali, another cousin of prophet. Ali told them, to use the same tactics as was used by the brethren of Joseph when they asked pardon from their brother Joseph.
Accordingly this Abdullah and Abu SUFYAN went and waited outside the door of prophet and when he came out recited the following verse from Quran
“By Allah! He favored you over me, We were indeed those who did wrong”……(Chapter YOSUF from Quran)
Prophet looked at an instant for those two, smiled and completed the Quranic verse “There is no blame on you this day, May Allah forgive you, for He is oft-forgiving Most Merciful”!
Thus prophet used his "Sword of Mercy and Pardon” to enslave these of his kinfolks for ever!!
Source: Companions of Prophet: by Talib Hashmi
There seems to be a pattern in all your cut-n-paste postings. Near relatives didn't want to be near the prophet. My guess is they were protecting their own children.

The prophet was reported to have molested one child. I wonder how many more were when he gained military power. Or was the one just an isolated incident?

MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#9235 Nov 22, 2012
Here is a "free Lesson" for every one:

If for "any reason" you are missing from any thread for any reason.....please try to compensate for that absence by posting "Non stop" on each and every issue.

Irrespective of whether you know it or do not know it.

If you do not know it, it would be best, because your posts would be "Unbiased and Reasonable"

Signed:

Greymouser the Returnee from Temp. Exile
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#9236 Nov 22, 2012
Adam wrote:
1.

I believe yesterday you denied that Muhammad consummated the marriage to Aisha when she was a 9 year old child. This relationship is documented in many of your Islamic sources including Bukhari. Do you believe this? Yes or No.

2.

"You people" is not me. I disagreed with the war in Iraq, and I disagree with the current war in Afghanistan. Hopefully Western troops will withdraw and Arab people can sort out their own problems. Lets see if they will be successful, or if they will continue to blame all their faults on the US and Israel.

3.

Yes I no longer take religious things seriously, as I have come to the realisation that god, heaven, hell, angels, etc are imaginary, in exactly the same way that the gods and myths of ancient societies are imaginary. Where I live in the UK, 2000 years ago they worshiped a pantheon of Celtic and roman deities. Its a delusion. No doubt.

I made a typing error. Should have typed "many". FYI I am a white British person, not a hindu. I was thinking wit? book of manu. lol
Ans.

01. Our prophet’s marriage with Lady Aiyesha:

a. I did not deny our Prophet's marriage with Lady Aiyesha. That uncouth person said “It is mentioned in Quran that our prophet had sex with a 9 year old girl”. I only asked where it is mentioned in the Quran.

When you say something, you should know what you are saying.

b. As regards our prophet’s marriage with lady Aiyesha, there was nothing objectionable in it. It was performed with full approval of her parents, and no one in the contemporary society made any objection to it.

c. he marriage was consummated when lady Aiyesha had reached the age of marriage. There was a three years waiting period so that she could attain that age.

d. And the marriage benefited Lady Aiyesha much more than it benefited our prophet. She became one of the Most Learned Muslim women, because of her close association with the prophet and is universally respected and revered in the whole Islamic nation.

e. Her “modern day supporters” have nothing to help her position or honor. They find it written that “her age was 9 years”…. That is enough for them to start their vilification compaign against our prophet.

Their aim is not to understand the position, but to get any thing to malign the personal character of our prophet, who was the “Noblest Soul that ever lived on this earth”

(Contd.)
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#9237 Nov 22, 2012
2. War on Iraq and Afghanistan:

a. I did not accuse you personally. When I use the word I or You, it means our Nations and our societies and not our individual persons.

b. I know for sure that there were many millions of people in USA and UK and whole of Europe who were against the war on Iraq and Afghanistan, but your “democratically elected” Presidents and Prime Ministers gave a damn about these people.

c. And these people themselves did nothing more that “registering their sham protest”. If it was for any other issue they would not have it idle and continued to stage protest till their demand were met, as they do for other things.

d. Similar is the situation for Palestine and Israel’s atrocities against the Palestinians. There are million of people in US, UK and Europe who are against it, but they keep silent and watch mootly what is going on and do not register their protests.

e. Why should we think that they are sincere in their thinking? To see some wrong being done and do not raise your voice against it, is in fact “being a party to the wrong” is it not?

C. Your Views on religion:

a. I find you views on religion very illogical. You have provided no proofs that what are reasons and logic for you to have your beliefs.

b. Just because there are Quacks practicing medicine in the streets and just because there have always been quacks thru out human history, you have no rights to “conclude” that there are “No Genuine Medical Doctor” out there and every one is a Quack.

c. Just because there are “books that are filled with errors and there have been books with errors in every age” would justify that “there is not a single book in the world without errors and all books should be burned”.

d. In the same way, just because there are many religions in the world, each claiming that it is true one, should be reason for you to conclude “either all are right or all of them are wrong”.

e. You should analyze their claims and find out which one is true religion. Or you should have “Very strong proofs” about your own views.

f. You should have your own proofs that this Universe came into existence by itself without any Plan, design or Purpose behind it, the life in its infinite variety and humans came int existence by “themselves without any purpose, plan, or design and designer”?

g. If you have no proofs but “Just your assumptions” that what you say is true, then let me remind you once again “That you taking a Big Gamble (And Not Pascal’s Gamble , please note) with your life.

This is sincere advice from one Human to another Human brother. I do not get any gain if you rethink your position.

PS:

How was I supposed to know that a White British Agnostic Man would mention MANU ( of all the world’s billions of books available) in his post?

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Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#9238 Nov 22, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
01. The FACTS do not change whether you be an Agnostic or Atheist. And the Universe and its Creator does not vanish in thin air, just because you "refuse to believe in their existence".
You are entitled to your personal view no doubt, but you should keep in mind that how you closed your mind against all reasons and logic and evidence of existence of Creator that was "open before your own eyes" if you would have but opened it. And the more efforts we made to open your eyes, the more closely you shut it.
02. We create our own purpose here, is a very illogical thing to say. Do you create and make any thing and let itself to decide its purpose? Would you expect a car to de-accelerate when you press the acceleration paddle?
It was OK if you created your own self. You even did not know when and how were you conceived. You did not even knew you will be born healthy or with disease and infirmities.
Now you stand and say I do not believe for any Creator to tell what is my purpose of life.
03. To use Pascal's wager type of argument to deny existence of Creator is a very unreasonable and illogical thing.
Every thing in this Universe points towards the existence of Creator and His Power, His Mercy and His Wisdom and His Knowledge.
It is humans who have muddled the Pure concept of Creator by "inventing their own models" so people like you get confused and reject the whole idea.
It only shows shallowness of your personality and lack of thinking and analyzing things in their right perspectives.
(Contd.)
Oh, you did not try to use Pascal's Wager as an argument.
Here's a hint - never bring that up again unless you are a Christian talking to Christians.

Pascal divided that up into a 4x4 box based on the Christian god. Take note - your Islamic god falls outside of the wager.

If Pascal wanted to be more accurate, he'd have to list every deity from every civilization throughout time as which is the right one to follow.

As an atheist, I have a much better chance of gaining mercy by saying "I don't know" than you do by proclaiming your god to be the one above all the others.

Now here's the big difference. I say "I don't know" because there has been nothing to convince me that any religion has it right. You say you are absolutely sure because why... you were born in the region of the world that told you that your religion is the one?

You will go to war (assuming you aren't a chickenhawk) to make sure your version of god is the law of the land.

I'll go to war so others can find their own individual path and that it's not enforced by the law of the land.

Since: Nov 12

Houston, TX

#9239 Nov 22, 2012
reviews are available on jobs at SEE Marketing Inc http://www.seemktg.com

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Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#9240 Nov 22, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe yesterday you denied that Muhammed consummated the marriage to Aisha when she was a 9 year old child. This relationship is documented in many of your islamic sources including Bukhari. Do you believe this? Yes or No.
Any odds that "consummated" is a translation error?

When your religion is faced with problematic questions, make a diversion into language issues. I wonder where I've seen that before?

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Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#9241 Nov 22, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
"You people" is not me. I disagreed with the war in Iraq, and I disagree with the current war in Afghanistan. Hopefully Western troops will withdraw and Arab people can sort out their own problems. Lets see if they will be successful, or if they will continue to blame all their faults on the US and Israel.
This is a big can of worms you are opening.

Iraq II, Yahoo Cowboy Bush Boogaloo. Yeah. mistake.

Afghanistan? Can't agree with you there. The place where empires go to die? Knocking out a safe training haven is worthwhile. Establishing a "western" tradition where girls can go to school? worthwhile.

Israel? Not worthwhile if they want to pursue the tactics that was inflicted them on days past on others. But the US has religious groups who think starting Armageddon in the Middle East is a good thing to force Jesus to come back.

For the religious fundamentalists, war is not only acceptable but desirable. God is on their side. Unless they lose. Then it's because they've sinned somehow. But once they atone, they'll win the next war. and so on. and so on. and so on.

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Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#9242 Nov 22, 2012
rio wrote:
The title of this thread is "Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038".
But, as usual, the atheist lobby cannot resist hijacking the debate to attack the believers. I am just wondering why that? I have no problem with people not believing in God, but why some feel the need to attack my beliefs? What give them the right to do that?
But in any case, I doubt very much that atheism will defeat religion by 2038, if ever. Many people need some form of spirituality, and will turn to religion to find it. It's just human nature: we are not made of stone: we think, we look for solutions, we search moral comfort, etc...
Furthermore, religions are the pillars of many societies, and an essential part of social structures. If they were to suddenly vanish, the world order would collapse, I predict.
Atheism can be a pressure group in society, but never a beacon.
I hope to be there in 26 years time, and see the pundits proven wrong.
Meh. Not expecting defeating religion by 2038 as I don't think it's a battle. With the free flow of opinions and easy research to the major religions with the internet, I expect the influence of religion in politics to be lessened and get on with managing a country.

And I don't think you'll ever rid people of the spirituality aspect. What I would like to see is that an individual's spirituality is what they think is useful for them without the peer pressure from government and its citizens in the "correct" way of thinking.

However, your spirituality beliefs is not a shield from criticism (i.e. questioning of their beliefs). If your beliefs cannot withstand questioning, just how true can it be?

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Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#9243 Nov 22, 2012
rio wrote:
<quoted text>
Attacking someone's beliefs and turning them in derision is insulting, like it or not. You atheists have no right to do that!
I could just as well start laughing at your lack of spirituality, at your materialism, at your belief that there is no creator, no afterlife, that for you "Big Bang" came out of nowhere, etc... but I don't. Who says you know reality more than I do?
You have as many answered questions as the believers, so why do you insist in holding the high ground in any conversation?
US citizen, right? How many US politicians say they are atheists? How many atheiists would be trusted by the US public? How comes your country is so religious? Your compatriots, are they all ignorant fools believing in "Myths" and "fairy tales" too? Is your Constitution a fraud? Because religion is very, very powerful in the US! Answer that...
Your first sentence:

"Attacking someone's beliefs and turning them in derision is insulting, like it or not."

I absolutely believe in Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, Homeopathic remedies, vaccines cause austism, Expanding Earth as the cause of earthquakes and volcanoes, astrology, phrenology, Lamarckian hereditary evolution, disease is caused by out of balance humours, ponzi schemes, Bohr's model of the atom, Tolkien's books are pure history, Spiderman, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, efficacy of prayer, A Nigerian Prince has a totally legit lucrative business offering, buying land in Florida sight unseen and must be decided now is a good deal, Mitt Romney really did have a plan, playing the lottery is the best retirement plan, Rachel from card holder services really will help me with my credit card debt (even though I don't have one) and Anonymous is my personal army.

How dare you criticize any of my beliefs!

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Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#9244 Nov 22, 2012
rio wrote:
<quoted text>
This isn't an "atheist forum", it's a thread about atheism defeating religions on Topix! Wahtever "defeating" means in this context.
Why "fictional god"?
You can't prove there is no God, no more than I can prove there is one. We are equal here. Your reasoning isn't superior to mine.
You say there is god.

A positive assertion.

The burden of proof is on you.

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Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#9245 Nov 22, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
Muslims celebrate Bus full of innocent people blown up.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/21/us-...
Meh. It's the Middle East. They've always been at war so why should it change now.

I'd like to get away from being dependent on oil so I don't have to care about that region anymore.

Be nice to think of it as "Oh. Mongolia invaded an occupied the Gobi desert? Wonder how many Americans know where the Gobi desert is?"

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Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#9246 Nov 22, 2012
rio wrote:
<quoted text>
Or maybe you could answer me how the 4.5 billion years old planet Earth came to be? I know the scientists tell me it's the "Big Bang". But what provoked the Big bang, eh soldier?
When you will prove to me that the whole universe came out of nowhere and spontaneously, you too will be a little more convincing to me "shrugs".
Nonevidence isn't an answer.
In between, it's just a question that needs an answer, although you may already have decided there is no question to ask, so no answer to offer.
Now that's an interesting question. We humans don't quite understand infinity but we're trying.

Invoking magic, aka God did it, just isn't satisfying. Well, maybe for you, but not me.

At one time, people wondered what lightning was. God did it was good enough for a long time. But for some that wasn't satisfactory and here we are using electricity to power the computer you used to post on this board.

Or did you pray so hard that your post here should be considered a miracle of divine origin?

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Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#9247 Nov 22, 2012
MUQ wrote:
Here is a "free Lesson" for every one:
If for "any reason" you are missing from any thread for any reason.....please try to compensate for that absence by posting "Non stop" on each and every issue.
Irrespective of whether you know it or do not know it.
If you do not know it, it would be best, because your posts would be "Unbiased and Reasonable"
Signed:
Greymouser the Returnee from Temp. Exile
My apologies that I don't hang your every post every day. Posting here is a hobby.

You may notice that I use the reply so I quote your post to remind you of what you said.

If you can't follow up on what you posted a few days ago, perhaps you can't keep up with the lies that you are trying to spin.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#9248 Nov 22, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
..personal character of our prophet, who was the “Noblest Soul that ever lived on this earth”
Thats funny. lol

You are obviously an intelligent person. Good at apologetics.

But also brainwashed. I guess from childhood.

Its very difficult to break a lifetime of brainwashing. Some people never do it.

The reason you think Muhammed was such a great guy is cause this is what you have been taught.

If you were born in Hickville, in the US, you would be waxing lyrical about how wonderful Jesus is.

You need to evaluate whether your beliefs are rational and the evidence for and against supports those beliefs.

For those of us outside the muslim bubble this is very easy. We hear Muhammed having a 6 yo wife, and stories of alledged miracles. And to us its obviously a fairy tale.

Likewise some of here were programmed into christian beliefs. To you this is stupid, and it is. But it can take time to shake off these beliefs.

Good luck.
rio

UK

#9249 Nov 22, 2012
greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>
You say there is god.
A positive assertion.
The burden of proof is on you.
I didn't say that. Read me again. I wrote that no one can prove there is no God, just like I cannot prove it exists.

I believe in God myself. I don't feel the need to convince you of his existence, neither do a want to. It would be pointless.
The belief in God is a personal journey; you discover him or you don't.

So, I don't need to prove anything; I have no burden. Faith cannot be transmitted; it's at the core of an individual, or not. That's it...
rio

UK

#9250 Nov 22, 2012
greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>
Now that's an interesting question. We humans don't quite understand infinity but we're trying.
Invoking magic, aka God did it, just isn't satisfying. Well, maybe for you, but not me.
At one time, people wondered what lightning was. God did it was good enough for a long time. But for some that wasn't satisfactory and here we are using electricity to power the computer you used to post on this board.
Or did you pray so hard that your post here should be considered a miracle of divine origin?
WEll, when your scientists will have answered ALL the questions about the origins, maybe atheists will be more convincing.
But until then, leave those in search of an answer believe in God if they wish.

I don't wish to exploit the point, but do you know that many scientists are also believers? All magicians perhaps?
Ouch, that must be hard for you to accept, eh?
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#9251 Nov 22, 2012
rio wrote:
<quoted text>
.. no one can prove there is no God, just like I cannot prove it exists.
..
So what are we talking about here. An invisible and silent entity that doesnt answer prayers??

What about a celestial teapot that lies between earth and mars and moves in an eliptical orbit. Do you believe in that too?

Doesnt its lack of action, the fact that it doesnt answer prayers say a lot about its existence?

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