Retired chaplains warn against 'don't...

Retired chaplains warn against 'don't ask' repeal

There are 175 comments on the The Topeka Capital-Journal story from Oct 29, 2010, titled Retired chaplains warn against 'don't ask' repeal. In it, The Topeka Capital-Journal reports that:

Dozens of retired military chaplains say that serving both God and the U.S. armed forces will become impossible for chaplains whose faiths consider homosexuality a sin if the "don't ask, don't tell" policy is thrown out.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Topeka Capital-Journal.

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“Choose wisely!”

Since: Jul 07

Los Angeles

#171 Nov 2, 2010
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you voted for continued anti-gay laws. Congrats, you're acting like a typical self-hating closet case.
Except that Frank is not in the closet.

Still, as disappointing as Democrats and the President have been over the last 2 years, they are FAR better than anyone in the GOP when it comes to LGBT rights.

Eric

TomInElPaso

“Impeach the reality show actor”

Since: Dec 08

Seminole, FL

#172 Nov 2, 2010
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Aren't you dead yet?
Just from the neck up.

Since: Apr 07

Philadelphia, PA

#173 Nov 3, 2010
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Good. That keeps the pressure on the Senate to repeal it.
Which now *must* happen or all is lost for another two years.

I don't like this one bit.

No Plan B to speak of.

The worst thing that ever happened to the gay activists is that their goals became *ensconced in the political machine*. It's all but a tragedy.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#174 Nov 3, 2010
smutt butt wrote:
Those that want gays in the military are either gay or have never served. It WILL cause beatings or worse. Someone will take a look the wrong way and it will happen.
.
Wow, that says something about the weakness of our military, and it's frightening.

Such things did not happen when our allies allowed gay soldiers to server openly.

Why are OUR soldiers so much more fearful, insecure, and weak? Is it just that only the insure join these days? Is it their faulty training?

Why are American soldiers more insure and fragil than the soldiers in other countries?

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#175 Nov 3, 2010
gemelk wrote:
<quoted text>
Except that Frank is not in the closet.
Still, as disappointing as Democrats and the President have been over the last 2 years, they are FAR better than anyone in the GOP when it comes to LGBT rights.
Eric
How do you know Frank isn't in the closet? Because he's on here anonymously posting like the rest of us?

From everything he's said, he certainly SOUNDS like the typical closet case.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#176 Nov 3, 2010
rdg1234 wrote:
<quoted text>
Which now *must* happen or all is lost for another two years.
I don't like this one bit.
No Plan B to speak of.
The worst thing that ever happened to the gay activists is that their goals became *ensconced in the political machine*. It's all but a tragedy.
Agreed. There is no "plan B", because we simply don't have the numbers.

Even when polling indicates 70% support for repealing DADT, that doesn't mean 70% are willing to FIGHT for repeal, or even willing to contact their representatives in Congress to ask for repeal.

And while the military data leaked may indicate that a majority don't think repealing DADT would be a big deal, that doesn't mean a majority of the military actually SUPPORT repealing DADT. The anti-gays are already making that distinction.

So yes, it's December 2010 or likely not again till Jan 2020.

Since: Apr 07

Philadelphia, PA

#177 Nov 3, 2010
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed. There is no "plan B", because we simply don't have the numbers.
Even when polling indicates 70% support for repealing DADT, that doesn't mean 70% are willing to FIGHT for repeal, or even willing to contact their representatives in Congress to ask for repeal.
And while the military data leaked may indicate that a majority don't think repealing DADT would be a big deal, that doesn't mean a majority of the military actually SUPPORT repealing DADT. The anti-gays are already making that distinction.
So yes, it's December 2010 or likely not again till Jan 2020.
Well, at least *some of you* aren't having a problem with my increasingly vocal reactions to what I think the pro-gay are doing very, VERY wrong.

Not once yet have the pro-gay taken an extremely pro-active stance meant to *compromise the rights of the anti-gay*, whether fruitfully or no. I'm receiving the idea that this is a determination to take the "high road." I've started to think this may be one of the CHIEF reasons these rights are taking so long.

I know many would disagree with that assessment. I'm sorta, ya know, just kinda sorta COUNTING THE DAYS now ever since FIVE STATES gained marriage recognition and noticing that NO NEW ONES have been added,

and that *NONE ARE EVEN A SURE BET* on the horizon,

so, quite frankly, I've grown colossally suspicious.

And thank you for your posts!:D

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#178 Nov 3, 2010
rdg1234 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, at least *some of you* aren't having a problem with my increasingly vocal reactions to what I think the pro-gay are doing very, VERY wrong.
Not once yet have the pro-gay taken an extremely pro-active stance meant to *compromise the rights of the anti-gay*, whether fruitfully or no. I'm receiving the idea that this is a determination to take the "high road." I've started to think this may be one of the CHIEF reasons these rights are taking so long.
I know many would disagree with that assessment. I'm sorta, ya know, just kinda sorta COUNTING THE DAYS now ever since FIVE STATES gained marriage recognition and noticing that NO NEW ONES have been added,
and that *NONE ARE EVEN A SURE BET* on the horizon,
so, quite frankly, I've grown colossally suspicious.
And thank you for your posts!:D
You can be as vocal as you want. All voices are welcome here. Maybe some one on here will finally hit on the right idea that all can agree on. Or maybe it will be each of us working on differents fronts in different ways that will advance our cause.

“Common courtesy, isn't”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#179 Nov 3, 2010
rdg1234 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, at least *some of you* aren't having a problem with my increasingly vocal reactions to what I think the pro-gay are doing very, VERY wrong.
Not once yet have the pro-gay taken an extremely pro-active stance meant to *compromise the rights of the anti-gay*, whether fruitfully or no. I'm receiving the idea that this is a determination to take the "high road." I've started to think this may be one of the CHIEF reasons these rights are taking so long.
I know many would disagree with that assessment. I'm sorta, ya know, just kinda sorta COUNTING THE DAYS now ever since FIVE STATES gained marriage recognition and noticing that NO NEW ONES have been added,
and that *NONE ARE EVEN A SURE BET* on the horizon,
so, quite frankly, I've grown colossally suspicious.
And thank you for your posts!:D
If you're saying it's time to stop "making nice" and get down and dirty, then I agree. I've felt that way for at least the past ten years.

The leaders and agencies that we've depended on to fight the political machine have, in fact, become a part of the machine. I would like to see a return to grass roots organizing and, if necessary, guerrilla tactics such as those used by ACT-UP and other advocacy groups.

Standing there with our hats in our hands mumbling, "We'd like our rights, please," simply ain't getting the job done.
Rattle Kattle

Christmas, FL

#180 Nov 3, 2010
Military Chaplains....another oxymoron from our FALSE Christian nation.

Who would Jesus BOMB?

The USA is a sick violent nation blinded by paranoia and revenge.

Since: Apr 07

Philadelphia, PA

#181 Nov 3, 2010
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
You can be as vocal as you want. All voices are welcome here. Maybe some one on here will finally hit on the right idea that all can agree on. Or maybe it will be each of us working on differents fronts in different ways that will advance our cause.
There's a much greater problem. Some of you are beginning to attack *me personally*-- and I won't put up with it for two seconds. I'm here to help and my patience is gone.

Not you personally.

But nothing is happening.

Every idea is getting shot down.

Midterm elections have produced a defeatist, whiny negativity that presupposes "all is lost."

I'm bone-tired of all this. If I can't get others to join in a savage fight by any means necessary, I want off this boat.

I'm starting *not to care about these rights*. It's too much work. Nobody listens. You offer an idea and it is INSTANTLY, INSTANTLY shot down as untenable. People think inside the box. Worst of all, they believe POLITICS IS THE ONLY ROAD to achieving these victories.

I don't get why I should be concerned anymore for people who won't help themselves. I just don't get it. Every day gay people have to look over their shoulders, they might lose EVERYTHING, and this hasn't produced such a level of moral outrage that they are willing to do *anything legal* to achieve their goals. Not even close.

Instead, it's producing defeatist, negative weeping and an idea that you must accept being second-class.

Boggles the mind.

I am EXTREMELY EXTREMELY EXTREMELY close to believing I can't do this anymore. Not because I won't fight. I'd fight for-ev-er. But because getting others to even CARE ABOUT THEMSELVES is too much work.

Since: Apr 07

Philadelphia, PA

#182 Nov 3, 2010
JMichael in Fort Worth wrote:
<quoted text>
If you're saying it's time to stop "making nice" and get down and dirty, then I agree. I've felt that way for at least the past ten years.
The leaders and agencies that we've depended on to fight the political machine have, in fact, become a part of the machine. I would like to see a return to grass roots organizing and, if necessary, guerrilla tactics such as those used by ACT-UP and other advocacy groups.
Standing there with our hats in our hands mumbling, "We'd like our rights, please," simply ain't getting the job done.
So why won't anyone cooperate? You have BRILLIANT ideas here. Brilliant. You're *right* on the right track. Why won't it happen? Why does disastrous defeat after disastrous defeat demoralize gay people *WHO ARE ACTING AS IF* they are second-class citizens? Why won't they stop? Why won't they stand up? Why does every idea get shot down?

I'm sick of it. Today was the first day that a loud voice in my head has started to say, "YOU GUYS DESERVE TO BE SECOND-CLASS. YOU TOTALLY DESERVE IT. Just stop fighting and let them take away all your marriages and go cry about it. Stop bothering everyone." In other words, the voice in my head is getting *really ugly* now and scornful toward the PRO-gay.

Because they will. not. fight.
Curteese

Cathedral City, CA

#183 Nov 3, 2010
rdg1234 wrote:
<quoted text>
So why won't anyone cooperate? You have BRILLIANT ideas here. Brilliant. You're *right* on the right track. Why won't it happen? Why does disastrous defeat after disastrous defeat demoralize gay people *WHO ARE ACTING AS IF* they are second-class citizens? Why won't they stop? Why won't they stand up? Why does every idea get shot down?
I'm sick of it. Today was the first day that a loud voice in my head has started to say, "YOU GUYS DESERVE TO BE SECOND-CLASS. YOU TOTALLY DESERVE IT. Just stop fighting and let them take away all your marriages and go cry about it. Stop bothering everyone." In other words, the voice in my head is getting *really ugly* now and scornful toward the PRO-gay.
Because they will. not. fight.
Don't grow bitter. It is not worth it to burn out your own soul. It is not all lost. Not every tea bagger was elected. For example, in California, the scoundrels did NOT win again. There is still hope for defeating prop H-8.

Many of my friends have teenagers and to those kids it is a non issue. Their schools are not only NOT homophobic, but have gay straight alliances. of course there are horrible exceptions, but they younger kids coming up have a completely different attitude.

I haven't even logged on here lately, and if I do, I find the posts pointless. I agree, why bother? I read hateful poison posts and don't even bother to comment. Why? I walked by a house with a vicious dog barking in the yard. Should I try to talk him down? it would be useless. these things are below contempt.

When I used to taunt back, they swelled under the attention. I note if you ignore them, they try to taunt for a day or two, then slither away sulking and disappointed. They are nothings and nobodies.

You are smart and passionate and I always enjoy your posts and admire your literally style. And you never say "your" for "You're"!

Don't let the "terrorists" win, in person, or online. Have a good night.
Curt

“Choose wisely!”

Since: Jul 07

Los Angeles

#185 Nov 4, 2010
rdg1234 wrote:
<quoted text>
So why won't anyone cooperate? You have BRILLIANT ideas here. Brilliant. You're *right* on the right track. Why won't it happen? Why does disastrous defeat after disastrous defeat demoralize gay people *WHO ARE ACTING AS IF* they are second-class citizens? Why won't they stop? Why won't they stand up? Why does every idea get shot down?
I'm sick of it. Today was the first day that a loud voice in my head has started to say, "YOU GUYS DESERVE TO BE SECOND-CLASS. YOU TOTALLY DESERVE IT. Just stop fighting and let them take away all your marriages and go cry about it. Stop bothering everyone." In other words, the voice in my head is getting *really ugly* now and scornful toward the PRO-gay.
Because they will. not. fight.
You're right - SOME - Some will NOT fight. They won't stand up for themselves.

To that I ask the heretical question - why should they? How do YOU rdg, make a compelling argument for them to do so. I'm not being sarcastic or devaluing what you say because I do agree, but only in part.

People do feel defeated right now and it is my belief, that people like you and I who never quit, never stop fighting for our RIGHTS, our EQUALITY, must find ways to re-energize our people.

Some - will never fight, they can not or will not but they won't and you can never change the fundamental nature of a thing or person.

Many LGBT'ers need time to grieve and to re-energize and along the way it is up to people like us to stoke that despair into a galvanizing force, to show them that all is not lost - TO LEAD THEM AND TO BE THE LEADERS THEY NEED US TO BE.

So don't you despair and castigate them and brow-beat them, hetero people do that to us all the time, and as people under siege, we need to find ways to encourage our people, not alienate them.

It is incumbent on US to lead our people and that means greater responsibility upon us.

Eric

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#186 Nov 4, 2010
rdg1234 wrote:
I am EXTREMELY EXTREMELY EXTREMELY close to believing I can't do this anymore. Not because I won't fight. I'd fight for-ev-er. But because getting others to even CARE ABOUT THEMSELVES is too much work.
It's not that we/they don't "care about themselves", it's that sometimes you just get tired of fighting the same old fight over & over & over. Every time we make headway with one group, another pops up in opposition using the same arguments we just got done debunking previously. The ONLY progress we've made has been through natural attrition of the old predominantly anti-gay generation (>55 y/o).

That's why I said I'm done with the DADT fight if we lose yet again in the lame duck session. I've been fighting for gay rights in the military for 20+, both from within and out of the military. Obviously whatever tactics I've been willing to use haven't worked. We all have limits of what we're willing to do; there are some lines I won't cross (i.e. kidnapping the generals families and holding them captive till they agree to let gays serve openly, or burning down the homes of Senators who vote against a repeal, etc.).

I survived in the military during the years of a outright ban on gays and during the DADT years. At this point I can survive another 10 years while more old anit-gay people die off.

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