Air Force wants to retire aging jets early

May 21, 2009 Full story: www.govexec.com 21

The Air Force this week announced plans to retire 254 combat aircraft next year, 249 of which would be removed from service earlier than scheduled.

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“FREEDOM”

Since: Dec 08

Bethel NY

#1 May 21, 2009
The B-52 has been in service since 1955. The KC -135 Tankers since 1965.

The implantation of the F-22 Raptor is not going forward. The acquisition of new tankers also on hold.

It seems every Democratic administration since Carter,like's to cut the Air Force.Carter with the B-1 stealth bombers.He shot that down.It took Republicans to reinstate it.

Their priorities are to spend trillions ,on programs that do not protect the U.S. in the manner it has to be protected.This often proved almost fatal.

Soon our space program will go thru a downsizing.This with the same consequences,a weakening of America in outer space.! The defense from killer satellites is now over.

It was like that prior to WW1,and the same before WW2.An Archaic military playing catch up.

Now the Air Force is telling us,the planes are old.The best in the world,but now old.

This administration will not replace these venerable war planes.

Yet they still want to fight wars,globally,with inadequate numbers,and dated equipment.

If you extend this policy to our Navy,you will find a like reduction of ships.

Recently,we did not have enough destroyers to police the pirates.

Always it took a critical national threat,or attack on us,to catch up...but then the two oceans protected us,we had time,and an intact manufacturing base....now its missiles. Again the democrats are shooting down the "Star War" technology,and research....next time an attack,it will be over in 15 minutes.

" TO DEFEND THE PEACE,PREPARE FOR WAR"....The Romans!!

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#2 May 21, 2009
FRONTERSMAN wrote:
The B-52 has been in service since 1955. The KC -135 Tankers since 1965.
The implantation of the F-22 Raptor is not going forward. The acquisition of new tankers also on hold.
It seems every Democratic administration since Carter,like's to cut the Air Force.Carter with the B-1 stealth bombers.He shot that down.It took Republicans to reinstate it.
Their priorities are to spend trillions ,on programs that do not protect the U.S. in the manner it has to be protected.This often proved almost fatal.
Soon our space program will go thru a downsizing.This with the same consequences,a weakening of America in outer space.! The defense from killer satellites is now over.
It was like that prior to WW1,and the same before WW2.An Archaic military playing catch up.
Now the Air Force is telling us,the planes are old.The best in the world,but now old.
This administration will not replace these venerable war planes.
Yet they still want to fight wars,globally,with inadequate numbers,and dated equipment.
If you extend this policy to our Navy,you will find a like reduction of ships.
Recently,we did not have enough destroyers to police the pirates.
Always it took a critical national threat,or attack on us,to catch up...but then the two oceans protected us,we had time,and an intact manufacturing base....now its missiles. Again the democrats are shooting down the "Star War" technology,and research....next time an attack,it will be over in 15 minutes.
" TO DEFEND THE PEACE,PREPARE FOR WAR"....The Romans!!
Many, like the F-15, are not worth the maintenance.

We need a high tech fighter, but not too many. After all, what will it go against?

This seems to be more about old, high mauintenance fighters. They are being retired, in wings, all over.

The new air-force will be more RC, less manned.

The pilot is the new 'train fireman.'

What is the threat?

“FREEDOM”

Since: Dec 08

Bethel NY

#3 May 21, 2009
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
Many, like the F-15, are not worth the maintenance.
We need a high tech fighter, but not too many. After all, what will it go against?
This seems to be more about old, high maintenance fighters. They are being retired, in wings, all over.
The new air-force will be more RC, less manned.
The pilot is the new 'train fireman.'
What is the threat?
Many feel as you do.!It sounds logical.Wheres the treat?...many others feel like I do , that there is always a threat...and thats fair.Both points of views are of great importance!Clear thinking is required ,not tired political slogans on both sides.The fear card argument,and the complacent not important argument...some where in the middle may be the answer.

Every war we entered was instigated by a sucker punch from areas we never really expected to be from,or grossly miscalculated..

Today,well I don't know bill,What I do know their is a Russia still armed to the teeth,a China with global aspirations,and that huge unknown of the far east,and the middle east.The Pakistan,India ,thing....a potential powder keg,with huge populations,all over.These with huge appetites for resources,space,control,and power!..these the age old reasons for aggression!

some how i see us as being the most vulnerable in a long time.its not army's,but an indention movement of religious fanatical extremism.

The can trigger conventional wars ,as we are experiencing in afgainestien...

I like flight simming,the drones are effective.the concept of some kid proficient in video games waging destructive war...the right stuff being some geeky kis in an air condition,remote ,safe place ,wreaking havoc.
Antiseptic warfare...fasniting.

Of course others will follow suit.and your back to square one..how do you protect the civil populations.

During WW2,the NAZIS were effective with their V-1 and V-2 attacks....Yet in the case of he V-1s..it was maned Spitfires,and Hurricanes who negated much of the impact.

Then their was no defense from V-2s...No star war Concepts......So the USA did the next best thing..grabbed Von Brun..the father of missile warfare.....He brought us to the moon.

I tend to be in favor of over protection of our country..in the scheme of these huge spending programs,I would not hinder our capability's.

A strong national defense,and offense is good insurance....And I might add the sworn duty of any administration that takes office.

When the war toxin sounds,you want to be prepared.

As a side note look up Billy Mitchell,..the father of the U.S. air Force.....Our conversation has a De Ja Vu ring about it!......

I hope ,these exotic weapons will never be used.
but we cannot discount history,,..shit does happens as the Old saying goes.

My feelings ,and there are only mine ,is why take a chance of misscaluting?..but its very important to discuss both points of views,as they effect our very existance.....Thanx for Bloviating with you!

'Of the four wars in my lifetime, none came about because the U.S. was too strong.'
- Ronald Reagan
ejosdeloskonihos

Baltimore, MD

#4 May 21, 2009
build them then retire them. put a big revolving door on the factories. thatll keep the corporate millionaires happy off the taxpayers hard earned moneys.
TASKMASTER

Sebring, FL

#5 May 21, 2009
ejosdeloskonihos wrote:
build them then retire them. put a big revolving door on the factories. thatll keep the corporate millionaires happy off the taxpayers hard earned moneys.
Hope you do not work for Boeing?/..ya probley do not work at all...go drink your lefty kool-aid..

Boeing falters then your city will be like Detroit....where ya belong!!
Lance Winslow

Castro Valley, CA

#6 May 21, 2009
Much of our military equipment will need to be made ready again after sustaining billions of dollars of loss and damage in Iraq. This, along with deferred medical costs, will bring the bill to over 2 trillion dollars.

Since: Apr 09

Los Angeles, CA

#7 May 21, 2009
I fail to see any harm in retiring these specific aircraft early. They are doing away with these specific aging crafts and not all of them.

The AF is not getting rid of these aircraft as a whole, they are merely getting rid of those which are the oldest which probably are sucking up money with constant repairs.

The US military has so many jet fighters that this will not do us any damage. Aside from the AF crafts we have the USMC's, and Navy's many jet fighters. There is not a shortage and there will not be any shortage of crafts if this plan goes through.

The only areas that I can see being affected if any would be (CAS), or close air support which these crafts are used for.
John Doe

Bethpage, NY

#8 May 21, 2009
Don't forget.. you have to invent a war every now and then to (1) test the technology you've been developing and (2) deplete inventories so you will need even more weapons.(See Eisenhower's famous quote on the matter)
ejosdeloskonihos wrote:
build them then retire them. put a big revolving door on the factories. thatll keep the corporate millionaires happy off the taxpayers hard earned moneys.
Weapons Dealers

Pulaski, TN

#10 May 21, 2009
If they want to retire them I think that only means they want to sell them because you know that if they they say they can't afford to keep them in the air now nor can they afford to keep them on the ground so that means a sale.
Weapons Dealers

Pulaski, TN

#11 May 21, 2009
Maybe they will pass them off on the new Sri Lanka?

“Protestant, Gay, Libertarian”

Since: Apr 08

Long Island, NY

#13 May 21, 2009
With so many people out of work, they should be building THOUSANDS of F-22's, F-35's, and upgrading the F-15's, F-16's and A-10's.

The B-52 PROVES that a good warplane, well maintained and upgraded over the decades CAN last 50 years !
commonsins

Baltimore, MD

#15 May 21, 2009
Daniel P from Long Island wrote:
With so many people out of work, they should be building THOUSANDS of F-22's, F-35's, and upgrading the F-15's, F-16's and A-10's.
The B-52 PROVES that a good warplane, well maintained and upgraded over the decades CAN last 50 years !
that would be nice. only if it doesnt cost anything for the taxpayer and if it doesnt create havoc on the resources and the environment. yeah it could have been a good idea only it isnt practical by any means.
BUCK

Livonia, MI

#16 May 21, 2009
FRONTERSMAN wrote:
The B-52 has been in service since 1955. The KC -135 Tankers since 1965.
The implantation of the F-22 Raptor is not going forward. The acquisition of new tankers also on hold.
It seems every Democratic administration since Carter,like's to cut the Air Force.Carter with the B-1 stealth bombers.He shot that down.It took Republicans to reinstate it.
Their priorities are to spend trillions ,on programs that do not protect the U.S. in the manner it has to be protected.This often proved almost fatal.
Soon our space program will go thru a downsizing.This with the same consequences,a weakening of America in outer space.! The defense from killer satellites is now over.
It was like that prior to WW1,and the same before WW2.An Archaic military playing catch up.
Now the Air Force is telling us,the planes are old.The best in the world,but now old.
This administration will not replace these venerable war planes.
Yet they still want to fight wars,globally,with inadequate numbers,and dated equipment.
If you extend this policy to our Navy,you will find a like reduction of ships.
Recently,we did not have enough destroyers to police the pirates.
Always it took a critical national threat,or attack on us,to catch up...but then the two oceans protected us,we had time,and an intact manufacturing base....now its missiles. Again the democrats are shooting down the "Star War" technology,and research....next time an attack,it will be over in 15 minutes.
" TO DEFEND THE PEACE,PREPARE FOR WAR"....The Romans!!
Seems to me it was Don Rumsfield, a Republican, who initiated all this downsizing of the military!
Han

Chengdu, China

#17 May 21, 2009
Daniel P from Long Island wrote:
With so many people out of work, they should be building THOUSANDS of F-22's, F-35's, and upgrading the F-15's, F-16's and A-10's.
The B-52 PROVES that a good warplane, well maintained and upgraded over the decades CAN last 50 years !
The United States military has taken on a life of its own. The United States military exists outside the boundary of the Constitution.

Day by day the military industrial complex encroaches more and more into our lives under the guise of "protecting us" from some big evil enemy that requires a larger and larger military presence EVERYWHERE in order to defend against it. President Eisenhower warned us about what will happen if we don't keep the arms industry under severe check and watch them like a hawk.
A Sooner

Los Angeles, CA

#18 May 22, 2009
No worries folks, Ole Obama will do everything he can to weaken our country as much as possible during his administration. And what a quick start he has already made!!
Martial law

United States

#19 May 22, 2009
A Sooner wrote:
No worries folks, Ole Obama will do everything he can to weaken our country as much as possible during his administration. And what a quick start he has already made!!
obama is strengthening the military's ability to house and guard American citizens if they riot over obama's failed economy. America's tent cities of new homeless people are under close watch by the government and are now ignored by the news media to deny those people any public sway of their plight that's been ignored by the obama administration.

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#20 May 22, 2009
USMC-SGV wrote:
I fail to see any harm in retiring these specific aircraft early. They are doing away with these specific aging crafts and not all of them.
The AF is not getting rid of these aircraft as a whole, they are merely getting rid of those which are the oldest which probably are sucking up money with constant repairs.
The US military has so many jet fighters that this will not do us any damage. Aside from the AF crafts we have the USMC's, and Navy's many jet fighters. There is not a shortage and there will not be any shortage of crafts if this plan goes through.
The only areas that I can see being affected if any would be (CAS), or close air support which these crafts are used for.
I believe that the Osprey, dispite its 20 year gestation, is now a solid, dependable craft. It makes sense to keep building it. Ditto the A-10.

Don't forget, the F-35 is still in the pipeline. It is an amazing plane, but is unbelievably complicated and expensive.

Is an F-35 worth nine A-10's ? I cannot say.
Will it fly as often, or as trouble free?
No.
Will it actully cost as much as 16 or 20 A-100's?
In cost and maintenance time?
Probably.

Do we need aged airplanes?
Perhaps, if they do not soak up too many dollars.

(SHIFT)
I always felt that the Abrams tank was the wrong weapon for Iraq.
I always felt that it was criminal of the administration to put US Marines on patrol in Iraq in the LVT-7.

I wished the Sherman Tank (or some other smaller, lighter, lower tech) would be revived, and restored to service. It is all that was needed against smart, organized, banditti.
(Perhaps with a new floor shield welded in.)

While new is not always better; old is not always better either.

“Protestant, Gay, Libertarian”

Since: Apr 08

Long Island, NY

#21 May 22, 2009
Han wrote:
<quoted text>
The United States military has taken on a life of its own. The United States military exists outside the boundary of the Constitution.
Day by day the military industrial complex encroaches more and more into our lives under the guise of "protecting us" from some big evil enemy that requires a larger and larger military presence EVERYWHERE in order to defend against it. President Eisenhower warned us about what will happen if we don't keep the arms industry under severe check and watch them like a hawk.
You know NOTHING of what you are talking about.

Since: Apr 09

Los Angeles, CA

#22 May 22, 2009
Daniel P from Long Island wrote:
With so many people out of work, they should be building THOUSANDS of F-22's, F-35's, and upgrading the F-15's, F-16's and A-10's.
The B-52 PROVES that a good warplane, well maintained and upgraded over the decades CAN last 50 years !
What are you talking about?

First off we do not need thousands of any jet fighter.

Next, we can not afford to build thousands of any jet fighter.

A B-52 is just a plane that drops bombs. With proper maintenance and upgrades it can last forever. A jet fighter has a set life span and when it reaches this time it begins to fail. Jet fighters can not be compared to planes as they do not go through the stress that fighters go through.

If you know how the military works then you would know we really do not have a need for many of these fighters today. We do not need to keep salvaging aging air crafts.

Either sell them off or moth ball them.

Since: Apr 09

Los Angeles, CA

#23 May 22, 2009
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe that the Osprey, dispite its 20 year gestation, is now a solid, dependable craft. It makes sense to keep building it. Ditto the A-10.

Is an F-35 worth nine A-10's ?
Of course we should keep building the OSPREY since it is replacing the CH46. That is a no brainer.

The A10 is not a fighter in the sense of air to air. It has a specific role/mission which is why it should not be compared to an F35.

If no other craft can fill the duties of the A10 as time goes on, then we keep building new ones or upgrading existing ones. If other crafts can handle the role of the A10 then as the craft ages we get rid of it.

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