Study: Military gays don't undermine unit cohesion

Jul 7, 2008 Full story: WHDH 12

Congress should repeal the "don't ask, don't tell" law because the presence of gays in the military is unlikely to undermine the ability to fight and win, according to a new study released by a California-based ...

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Since: Sep 07

Joppa, MD

#1 Jul 9, 2008
We have known this for years, the smart people in this country. The fact is that the ANTI-homosexuals are more likely to undermine unit cohesion, not the homosexuals.
TFM_USAF

Tucson, AZ

#2 Mar 7, 2009
It does affect unit cohesion, years ago, at my former base a CRS guy woke up to find himself being serviced by his gay roomate. He beat him and took off, to report the issue to his First Seargent. That news made it around base in less than 1 hr, they later found the guy dead, he commited sucide to avoid the shame. His actions had everyone questioning people in the dorms. This pre-dated don't ask don't tell. We had enough things to worry about, that we did not need to worry about being abused by a gay roomate, who has been assigned to your room. I know of multiple blanket parties that were given to encourage gay guys to move out of the dorms. when you don't choose your roomate therefore it should never be an issue.
Leria is an idiot, nice grammar. 99.9% of my unit was against queers. The PC cops made so they were the only group we could joke about. By the way we are not Homophobic, Phobia implies fear... I have never feared a gay.
I am glad I am no longer in, as the idiotic rules imposed by clinton went into effect.
Ocean View

Pacific Grove, CA

#3 Mar 7, 2009
TFM_USAF wrote:
It does affect unit cohesion, years ago, at my former base a CRS guy woke up to find himself being serviced by his gay roomate. He beat him and took off, to report the issue to his First Seargent. That news made it around base in less than 1 hr, they later found the guy dead, he commited sucide to avoid the shame. His actions had everyone questioning people in the dorms. This pre-dated don't ask don't tell. We had enough things to worry about, that we did not need to worry about being abused by a gay roomate, who has been assigned to your room. I know of multiple blanket parties that were given to encourage gay guys to move out of the dorms. when you don't choose your roomate therefore it should never be an issue.
Leria is an idiot, nice grammar. 99.9% of my unit was against ****. The PC cops made so they were the only group we could joke about. By the way we are not Homophobic, Phobia implies fear... I have never feared a gay.
I am glad I am no longer in, as the idiotic rules imposed by clinton went into effect.
Fear is only part of the definition:

Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition of Homophobia: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hom...

By the way, if your buddies weren't afraid of gays, why the blanket parties? I would have thought that they would be proud to be identified as one of the several who would bravely beat someone up in a manner that prevented him from defending himself. It sounds to me as if these guys were the threat to unit cohesion, unless all that unit cohesion means is people I like or people just like me, not more importantly people I can rely on.

I'm sorry for the guy in your unit who was assaulted. I'm sorry for the guy who died. I'm sorry that he apparently wasn't someone who could be relied on, but that was him, not his homosexuality. I'm sorrier for the loss of the service to our country of both men and women who knew their jobs but weren't allowed to do them because of their sexual orientation.
music

Pacoima, CA

#4 Mar 7, 2009
Ocean View wrote:
<quoted text>
Fear is only part of the definition:
Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition of Homophobia: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hom...
By the way, if your buddies weren't afraid of gays, why the blanket parties? I would have thought that they would be proud to be identified as one of the several who would bravely beat someone up in a manner that prevented him from defending himself. It sounds to me as if these guys were the threat to unit cohesion, unless all that unit cohesion means is people I like or people just like me, not more importantly people I can rely on.
I'm sorry for the guy in your unit who was assaulted. I'm sorry for the guy who died. I'm sorry that he apparently wasn't someone who could be relied on, but that was him, not his homosexuality. I'm sorrier for the loss of the service to our country of both men and women who knew their jobs but weren't allowed to do them because of their sexual orientation.
Why are you "sorry for the guy that died" ? He committed suicide all by himself. Perhaps he should not have joined the military. In combat units in hostile locations during a time of war, It would be a distraction during operations, which could cost troop lives. Perhaps if we had an all gay military, the hextro's would not wish to join and become draft deferred. Perhaps you should join the military and deal with reality vs theories. Keep in mind, the troops are very young and have not developed tolerances as they mature in life. mixing oil and water is still a problem, is it not ?
Ocean View

Pacific Grove, CA

#5 Mar 7, 2009
music wrote:
<quoted text> Why are you "sorry for the guy that died" ? He committed suicide all by himself. Perhaps he should not have joined the military. In combat units in hostile locations during a time of war, It would be a distraction during operations, which could cost troop lives. Perhaps if we had an all gay military, the hextro's would not wish to join and become draft deferred. Perhaps you should join the military and deal with reality vs theories. Keep in mind, the troops are very young and have not developed tolerances as they mature in life. mixing oil and water is still a problem, is it not ?
There are lots of issues to respond to in your post, but I will go with my favorite. Since young men still have to develop tolerances as they mature in life, I recommend only enlisting the much older and presumably more mature politicians who have all the experience and wisdom to get us into war.

On the other hand, are you suggesting that because young men haven't developed "tolerances" that they shouldn't be challenged to do so, otherwise, how will they learn? How did older people learn, or does it simply accumulate with age like tree rings?

The same argument that you are using was used in the past to preclude racially and gender integrated forces, and gays have been serving our country for decades whether we knew it or not (or even cared). Competence in combat or your job in the military is the critical element, not whether or not you like what the guy next to you in the foxhole fantasizes about or whether he finds you attractive or not. If you are more preoccupied with someone else's sex life than your own or than the guy on the other side who wants to take you and your buddies out, the military is not for you.

The conclusion of the report is that having gays in the military is unlikely to affect unit cohesion. If heterosexual guys can't figure out a way to adjust to that concept, they may just need to find another occupation where they are allowed to beat up their fellow workers because of their suspicions.

Besides, I always thought that blanket parties were used to anonymously discipline unit screw-ups who were causing extra duties to be assigned, but if having a scapegoat is what is required to get everybody to work toward a common goal, I suggest devoting attention toward politicians who abuse the use of military power. They are much more hazardous to the health of military personnel than the presence of homosexuals in the military.
music

Pacoima, CA

#6 Mar 7, 2009
Ocean View wrote:
<quoted text>
There are lots of issues to respond to in your post, but I will go with my favorite. Since young men still have to develop tolerances as they mature in life, I recommend only enlisting the much older and presumably more mature politicians who have all the experience and wisdom to get us into war.
On the other hand, are you suggesting that because young men haven't developed "tolerances" that they shouldn't be challenged to do so, otherwise, how will they learn? How did older people learn, or does it simply accumulate with age like tree rings?
The same argument that you are using was used in the past to preclude racially and gender integrated forces, and gays have been serving our country for decades whether we knew it or not (or even cared). Competence in combat or your job in the military is the critical element, not whether or not you like what the guy next to you in the foxhole fantasizes about or whether he finds you attractive or not. If you are more preoccupied with someone else's sex life than your own or than the guy on the other side who wants to take you and your buddies out, the military is not for you.
The conclusion of the report is that having gays in the military is unlikely to affect unit cohesion. If heterosexual guys can't figure out a way to adjust to that concept, they may just need to find another occupation where they are allowed to beat up their fellow workers because of their suspicions.
Besides, I always thought that blanket parties were used to anonymously discipline unit screw-ups who were causing extra duties to be assigned, but if having a scapegoat is what is required to get everybody to work toward a common goal, I suggest devoting attention toward politicians who abuse the use of military power. They are much more hazardous to the health of military personnel than the presence of homosexuals in the military.
Two times I replied just to have it rejected. OK! Older citizens tend to marry, have children and establish careers and all the responsibilities. I don't think they would wish to enlist into the military, unless it was a nice, comfortable and safe administrative job. If you wish an "All Gay Armed Forces" then go for it, straights can then be exempt from the "Draft" . We will watch "CNN" and see how well it works in engagements with other Armies. I personally feel that the Gay combat units will get butts kicked or wiped out. Again ! That's just my opinion, nothing more.
Ocean View

Pacific Grove, CA

#7 Mar 7, 2009
music wrote:
<quoted text> Two times I replied just to have it rejected. OK! Older citizens tend to marry, have children and establish careers and all the responsibilities. I don't think they would wish to enlist into the military, unless it was a nice, comfortable and safe administrative job. If you wish an "All Gay Armed Forces" then go for it, straights can then be exempt from the "Draft" . We will watch "CNN" and see how well it works in engagements with other Armies. I personally feel that the Gay combat units will get butts kicked or wiped out. Again ! That's just my opinion, nothing more.
I'm not advocating "All Gay Armed Forces," that was your suggestion. I believe that gays have served and can serve their country just as effectively as straights in all areas of military service. It seems incredible to me to suggest that straight soldiers, marines, airman, and sailors can be trained to fight bravely and heroically and even die for their country, but being in the presence of a gay colleague is beyond their ability to manage. Straights outside of the military do it all the time, including firefighters and police.

By the way, I'm sorry that you had to try to post more than once. In the future, you can reduce or edit the posting that you're referencing and that will give you more space to write. Topix will only allow 4000 characters per post.
music

Pacoima, CA

#8 Mar 7, 2009
Ocean View wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not advocating "All Gay Armed Forces," that was your suggestion. I believe that gays have served and can serve their country just as effectively as straights in all areas of military service. It seems incredible to me to suggest that straight soldiers, marines, airman, and sailors can be trained to fight bravely and heroically and even die for their country, but being in the presence of a gay colleague is beyond their ability to manage. Straights outside of the military do it all the time, including firefighters and police.
By the way, I'm sorry that you had to try to post more than once. In the future, you can reduce or edit the posting that you're referencing and that will give you more space to write. Topix will only allow 4000 characters per post.
Thanks for the tip I was well under 4000, somethings wrong with my computer. Well back to your reply. OK! Do you recall, when President Obama stated : " If we go to war, we all go " This was a very powerful statement and perhaps convoluted. Did he mean that if there is a Draft or Gays wish to enlist that they would be accepted ? Forced integration with the straights will no doubt create serious issues. True gays have served in the military, but keep their sexuality hidden. Law enforcement and fire departments have integrated. I think the difference is that a straight can always quit or resign, what happens to a straight who is "Drafted" but refuses to serve with gays ? Should he/she be exempt, or imprisoned for refusal ? Time will tell, I assume you have no problem with "water-boarding" ? If you do, then perhaps you are not aware what other enemy forces do, serious torture and mutilation if captured. Some enemy forces are civil others are barbaric and have to be returned in a sealed coffin. So! what are you gonna do ? separate is not equal, its all or nothing. I think troops fight for their lives and their buddies, and then country when locked in a heavy engagements.
Franky G

Redondo Beach, CA

#9 Mar 7, 2009
I hope they didn't spend more than $1 for this study. I can give them 100 studies that say gays undermine work cohesion.
music

Pacoima, CA

#10 Mar 7, 2009
Franky G wrote:
I hope they didn't spend more than $1 for this study. I can give them 100 studies that say gays undermine work cohesion.
I agree ! I prefer the study would have come from the " Rand Corporation " I also prefer surveys from the ground grunts rather than high officers likely pushing for promotion. Playing games with our soldiers lives is outrageous. Perhaps they should form and test a combat unit in Somalia or South America and see how it performs, also keep and eye on recruitments, if they decline, rise or remain level. Using Britain and Israel as a gauge to compare to the U.S. is absurd. Again ! Ask the ground pounders since they are the impacted ones.
Lynwood

Norco, CA

#11 May 14, 2009
girls in the barracks not good but same sex where they are looking at you in their manner --where is common sense
music wrote:
<quoted text> Why are you "sorry for the guy that died" ? He committed suicide all by himself. Perhaps he should not have joined the military. In combat units in hostile locations during a time of war, It would be a distraction during operations, which could cost troop lives. Perhaps if we had an all gay military, the hextro's would not wish to join and become draft deferred. Perhaps you should join the military and deal with reality vs theories. Keep in mind, the troops are very young and have not developed tolerances as they mature in life. mixing oil and water is still a problem, is it not ?
EMF

Toronto, Canada

#12 Mar 10, 2011

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