Will Putin's Gambit Backfire?

Will Putin's Gambit Backfire?

There are 190 comments on the The Daily Beast story from Mar 2, 2014, titled Will Putin's Gambit Backfire?. In it, The Daily Beast reports that:

Vladimir Putin's Crimean gambit could prove to be the most fatal mistake of his political career -- a mistake that may well cost Russia the peace, economic and political stability that stand as chief monument to Putin's decade and a half in power.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Daily Beast.

Knight Hospitaller

Georgia

#165 Mar 14, 2014
reality wrote:
<quoted text>
Milosevic "withdraw" from Kosovo but still according to the UN Resolution 1244 Kosovo is part of Serbia
No matter how hard you try to rephrase words, Milosevic lost the war and Russia refused to help, those two are unavoidable facts...
reality

Slovenia

#167 Mar 14, 2014
Knight Hospitaller wrote:
<quoted text>
No matter how hard you try to rephrase words, Milosevic lost the war and Russia refused to help, those two are unavoidable facts...
Fact is that Milosevic did not lost the war + According to the UN Resolution 1244 Kosovo is part of Serbia

These two are unavoidable facts
John Kerry

United States

#168 Mar 14, 2014
We wrote that resolution in disappearing ink. I dare you to find it. LOL
Oliver Cromwell

Blackpool, UK

#169 Mar 14, 2014
Knight Hospitaller wrote:
<quoted text>
No matter how hard you try to rephrase words, Milosevic lost the war and Russia refused to help, those two are unavoidable facts...
Russia didn't refuse help,a drunken Court Jester Yeltsin did,thats why Nato attacked at that time because under that idiot Russia was weak,if it was now it would be a different matter,they would have been up against Putin,and we have seen what they are like when that's the case,a paper Tiger,they always were,now their Bluff has been called.

Since: Aug 09

Saint Louis, MO

#170 Mar 16, 2014
just a guy i knew wrote:
<quoted text>
Ukraine may have to go nuclear, says Kiev lawmaker
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014...
Ukraine may have to arm itself with nuclear weapons if the United States and other world powers refuse to enforce a security pact that obligates them to reverse the Moscow-backed takeover of Crimea, a member of the Ukraine parliament told USA TODAY.
The United States, Great Britain and Russia agreed in a pact "to assure Ukraine's territorial integrity" in return for Ukraine giving up a nuclear arsenal it inherited from the Soviet Union after declaring independence in 1991, said Pavlo Rizanenko, a member of the Ukrainian parliament.
"We gave up nuclear weapons because of this agreement," said Rizanenko, a member of the Udar Party headed by Vitali Klitschko, a candidate for president. "Now there's a strong sentiment in Ukraine that we made a big mistake."
You mean Nazi controlled Kiev will have to go nuclear. The rest of Ukraine is in the process of going Russian. I bet they even teach Russian in all of their schools in 6 weeks.

Since: Aug 09

Saint Louis, MO

#171 Mar 16, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree, I noticed Kerry declined the meeting with Lavrov, which I think is good but the pressure should keep increasing not letting up, you have been there and know what he will do, the world cannot let him get an acre of Crimea not one solitary acre. I believe if it takes Nato to step in to prevent this it will be worth it, after all we know how much the world can now trust Putin with legal agreements.
What city you do you live in in Canada? Maybe it ought to be put on Russia's target list. Oops!!! it is not a city? It is some little backwoods village in the doon-docks? Well, that is not worth targeting. No wonder you always talk like an idiot. If that place gets nuked it would kill only polar bears and one or two human idiots like you. Nobody wants to murder so many helpless and harmless little polar bears. They are so cute.
Knight Hospitaller

Georgia

#172 Mar 17, 2014
reality wrote:
<quoted text>
Fact is that Milosevic did not lost the war + According to the UN Resolution 1244 Kosovo is part of Serbia
These two are unavoidable facts
If he won the war, then why he was forced to withdraw? Since when retreat was a sign of victory? Milosevic lost the war and Kosovo with it.
Just like Serbs lost war against Croatia and Krajina was liberated.
reality

Slovenia

#174 Mar 17, 2014
Knight Hospitaller wrote:
<quoted text>
If he won the war, then why he was forced to withdraw? Since when retreat was a sign of victory? Milosevic lost the war and Kosovo with it.
Just like Serbs lost war against Croatia and Krajina was liberated.
Milosevic after 78 days bombings did not lost war against NATO - good proof is Resolution 1244 in which according the the same resolution Kosovo is part of Serbia

In other had Georgians lost war against Russian army only in 9 days

It was amazing to see how Abkhazian freedom fighters liberated Abkhazia in 1992-1993
Knight Hospitaller

Georgia

#176 Mar 19, 2014
reality wrote:
<quoted text>
Milosevic after 78 days bombings did not lost war against NATO - good proof is Resolution 1244 in which according the the same resolution Kosovo is part of Serbia
In other had Georgians lost war against Russian army only in 9 days
It was amazing to see how Abkhazian freedom fighters liberated Abkhazia in 1992-1993
Days do not matter much, if you want any measure let us turn to casualties. If there was ground invasion Serbia would be overrun much earlier, but it was an air war. So accodring to the VERY RUSSIAN sources, Russians lost at least 6 planes, 400 dead and wounded and dozens of Tanks&APC-s. Some other Russian sources even suggest higher numbers.
In case of 1999, NATO only lost 2 Planes, that's it. So do you see any difference here?:)
Serbia invaded Croatia and Bosnia in 1991-1992, but 3 years war concluded with complete defeat for Milosevic. After 1995 operation Croatia was complacently under Croatian Army control, the Krajina separatist region was eliminated. A while later Milosevic was forced to withdraw from Bosnia as well, after signing Dayton agreement.
But this was case of Serbia, Russia is much bigger and more difficult to deal with, so West did no really intervened by that time.
If you are so interested about Abkhazia, only 25% of rebels were abkhazians, the rest were Russian mercenaries, so there was not any liberation, but occupation, confirmed in 2008. Be honest I think 2008 had some good effects, before this everybody was talking about non-existent Georgian-Abkhazian conflict, now everybody understand that it is nothing more but Russian occupation.

Since: Aug 09

Saint Louis, MO

#177 Mar 19, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>
You are very naÔve to believe the Crimeans are doing this on their own because that is what they want, if that is the case, why did Russia take over the port security, surround the parliament buildings, surround the police stations, surround the Ukranian military sites, cut off the Crimea port to Ukranian access??? You must be very naÔve to believe this. If Russia respected Crimea they would have waited and let them vote in May to declare the intent of the peninsula instead of invading, removing the premier and placing their person then getting the date changed to march 16, seems their intent is pretty clear, I wonder if all the citizens in Crimea agree.
I was wondering where you are. If Russia had waited it would have been too late. Their move would have triggered an organized and well planned reaction. And the world would be sitting on powder keg right now. FOOL!!!

Since: Aug 09

Saint Louis, MO

#178 Mar 19, 2014
inconvenient truths wrote:
<quoted text>
Your talking points are comical. Pots calling kettles black. Who pushed up voting dates first, Kiev or Crimea? Please, your arguments are too ridiculous for words.
George is not standing on his head this morning. No blood can circulate to his brain through his neck. We need to hold a contest to pick a new Latin name for his current condition. Whoever picks the best name will win a Gold Star.
inconvenient truths wrote:
<quoted text>Besides, why do all the citizens of Crimea need to agree? A majority needs to agree, that's all. It's called democracy in action. Didn't they teach you that in 4th grade civics class?
Did all the citizens of Ukraine agree to depose an elected leader via a violent coup d'etat in Kiev? That's NOT called democracy in action. It's called mob rule.
It is called Nazi rule.
inconvenient truths wrote:
<quoted text>You're really not equipped intellectually to handle these events. A debate with your local kindergarten should be your starting point.
All they had to do was wait for elections and none of this would be happening. Washington obviously didn't like that thought, so gave them a little push.
Did you know that more than half of Americans reject further involvement in Ukraine, and that's AFTER the hysterical barrage of government and media propaganda that Russia is now poised to take over the world. Apparently, we're getting savvier with every new self-inflicted crisis. LOL
Best for the country that 'cookies' Nuland spend less time on destabilizing Ukraine and more time baking up some baklava for the besieged demonstrators calling for the ouster of Erdogan in the streets as we speak. She's failing in her white house duties as chief provocateur and cookie vendor.
Wasn't it Hitler KKKLinton who continued to spend all that money on Ukraine? This does not speak well for women in American politics. Maybe we ought to make both of them Chancellor and Vice Chancellor of Germany. They do not know how to lead a nuclear armed superpower.

But Hitlery is not a woman. He is a pantsuit wearing perverted b-dagger lesbian. Dang! We do not even have the right words to describe this insanity in English. Maybe we need to borrow a few Chinese words.
George

Red Deer, Canada

#179 Mar 19, 2014
Abdurratln wrote:
<quoted text>
What city you do you live in in Canada? Maybe it ought to be put on Russia's target list. Oops!!! it is not a city? It is some little backwoods village in the doon-docks? Well, that is not worth targeting. No wonder you always talk like an idiot. If that place gets nuked it would kill only polar bears and one or two human idiots like you. Nobody wants to murder so many helpless and harmless little polar bears. They are so cute.
Go back to playing with your inbred hillbillies, you know, the ones with 3 teeth and a grade 3 education, compliments of the no one left behind club.
George

Red Deer, Canada

#180 Mar 19, 2014
Abdurratln wrote:
<quoted text>
I was wondering where you are. If Russia had waited it would have been too late. Their move would have triggered an organized and well planned reaction. And the world would be sitting on powder keg right now. FOOL!!!
This is a quote from a Crimean/Ukranian prosecutor:

Yevgen Sukhodolsky, 21, a government prosecutor in the western city of Saki, told The AP by email he has decided to stay put for the time being, despite uncertainties about his job prospects. Even before Sunday's referendum, he said, the Russians had taken over the justice system ó and put the peninsula's overall administration in the hands of a man with a murky past linked to organized crime.
got my mojo

United States

#181 Mar 19, 2014
New and conflicting details emerge over Mogilevichís alleged involvement in nation

Former security service chief and now interim president Oleksandr Turchynov said he didnít order the destruction of a case file on reputed mobster Semyon Mogilevich.

Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, who headed the spy agency from 2006 to 2010, told the Kyiv Post in an interview that documents connecting Mogilevich with the nationís gas trade had been destroyed by one of his predecessors, Oleksandr Turchynov, in 2005.

Turchynov, who was security service (SBU) chief in 2005, called such claims an ďelaborate ruseĒ to discredit his close ally, former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, who made a fortune in the gas trade in the 1990s.

https://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/new-...
reality

Slovenia

#182 Mar 19, 2014
Knight Hospitaller wrote:
<quoted text>
Days do not matter much, if you want any measure let us turn to casualties. If there was ground invasion Serbia would be overrun much earlier, but it was an air war. So accodring to the VERY RUSSIAN sources, Russians lost at least 6 planes, 400 dead and wounded and dozens of Tanks&APC-s. Some other Russian sources even suggest higher numbers.
In case of 1999, NATO only lost 2 Planes, that's it. So do you see any difference here?:)
Serbia invaded Croatia and Bosnia in 1991-1992, but 3 years war concluded with complete defeat for Milosevic. After 1995 operation Croatia was complacently under Croatian Army control, the Krajina separatist region was eliminated. A while later Milosevic was forced to withdraw from Bosnia as well, after signing Dayton agreement.
But this was case of Serbia, Russia is much bigger and more difficult to deal with, so West did no really intervened by that time.
If you are so interested about Abkhazia, only 25% of rebels were abkhazians, the rest were Russian mercenaries, so there was not any liberation, but occupation, confirmed in 2008. Be honest I think 2008 had some good effects, before this everybody was talking about non-existent Georgian-Abkhazian conflict, now everybody understand that it is nothing more but Russian occupation.
After 1995 operation Croatia was not complacently under Croatian Army control, eastern Slavonia was still in Serbian hands until 1998

In case of NATO's ground war against Serbia NATO would be defeated.Even during the war and their campaign their forces did not entered Kosovo for 1 inch

War in Croatia was between Krajina Serbs and Croatia not between Serbia and Croatia

Milosevic did not withdraw from Bosnia since even today half of Bosnia and Herzegovina is in Serbian hands

Before Dayton Agreement Serbs controlled 46% of Bosnia and Herzegovina , Bosniaks controlled 28% and Bosnian Croats controlled 25% of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Knight Hospitaller

Georgia

#183 Mar 20, 2014
reality wrote:
<quoted text>
After 1995 operation Croatia was not complacently under Croatian Army control, eastern Slavonia was still in Serbian hands until 1998
In case of NATO's ground war against Serbia NATO would be defeated.Even during the war and their campaign their forces did not entered Kosovo for 1 inch
War in Croatia was between Krajina Serbs and Croatia not between Serbia and Croatia
Milosevic did not withdraw from Bosnia since even today half of Bosnia and Herzegovina is in Serbian hands
Before Dayton Agreement Serbs controlled 46% of Bosnia and Herzegovina , Bosniaks controlled 28% and Bosnian Croats controlled 25% of Bosnia and Herzegovina
You mentioned that war in Croatia was just between Croats and Krajina Serbs, but if that was the case, then was not it Serbian Army itself who invaded Vukovar and Dubrovnik in 1991-1992? I am sure you know that well.
I believe that withdrawing from Vukovar without fight was a step forward, rather then resuming the bloodshed. However, the end remains the same, Croatia was reclaimed all of the lost territories.
You see violating other countries territorial integrity is always dangerous, sometimes it can backfire, as it happened.
As for Bosnia, yes the agreement recognized republika Srbska, but within Bosnian federation, this was the way to avoid a new war.
Finally could you just explain why you Serbs always support Russia? What is the point supporting Putin's adventures? If you say that Albanians and NATO violated your territory, then how come you support dictator which does just that: Invading Ukraine, after Georgia.
reality

Slovenia

#184 Mar 20, 2014
Knight Hospitaller wrote:
<quoted text>
You mentioned that war in Croatia was just between Croats and Krajina Serbs, but if that was the case, then was not it Serbian Army itself who invaded Vukovar and Dubrovnik in 1991-1992? I am sure you know that well.
I believe that withdrawing from Vukovar without fight was a step forward, rather then resuming the bloodshed. However, the end remains the same, Croatia was reclaimed all of the lost territories.
You see violating other countries territorial integrity is always dangerous, sometimes it can backfire, as it happened.
As for Bosnia, yes the agreement recognized republika Srbska, but within Bosnian federation, this was the way to avoid a new war.
Finally could you just explain why you Serbs always support Russia? What is the point supporting Putin's adventures? If you say that Albanians and NATO violated your territory, then how come you support dictator which does just that: Invading Ukraine, after Georgia.
There were no Serbian army in Vukovar in 1991.It was the Yugoslav army both in Vukovar and in Dubrovnik

Serbs support Russia because both Serbia and Russia are Christian Slavic nations.Serbia and Russia supported each other centuries ago

There is nothing wrong with that

In Georgian/Ukrainian cases Serbia should and must be neutral
Knight Hospitaller

Georgia

#185 Mar 20, 2014
reality wrote:
<quoted text>
There were no Serbian army in Vukovar in 1991.It was the Yugoslav army both in Vukovar and in Dubrovnik
Serbs support Russia because both Serbia and Russia are Christian Slavic nations.Serbia and Russia supported each other centuries ago
There is nothing wrong with that
In Georgian/Ukrainian cases Serbia should and must be neutral
Yugoslavia consisted of several countries, but by the end of 1991, Croats, Slovenians and Bosnian Muslims deserted Yugoslav Army, then who is left? Serbs and perhaps some small number of Montenegrins? That's why I call it Serbian Army.
I agree that in Ukraine and Georgian cases Serbia should be neutral. Supporting separatists abroad will not help with your Kosovo issues.
2008 Belgrade demonstration supporting 'free Ossetia and Abkhazia' in Georgia was an open support not for Russia, but for Separatism at most.
Nikolic was have even gone further, he sad that he would 'consider recognizing' those regions. SEPARATIST regions. Do you think this is wise?
reality

Ljubljana, Slovenia

#186 Mar 20, 2014
Knight Hospitaller wrote:
<quoted text>
Yugoslavia consisted of several countries, but by the end of 1991, Croats, Slovenians and Bosnian Muslims deserted Yugoslav Army, then who is left? Serbs and perhaps some small number of Montenegrins? That's why I call it Serbian Army.
I agree that in Ukraine and Georgian cases Serbia should be neutral. Supporting separatists abroad will not help with your Kosovo issues.
2008 Belgrade demonstration supporting 'free Ossetia and Abkhazia' in Georgia was an open support not for Russia, but for Separatism at most.
Nikolic was have even gone further, he sad that he would 'consider recognizing' those regions. SEPARATIST regions. Do you think this is wise?
Until now Nikolic did not recognized Ossetia and Abkhazia.I think he Will not recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia

As i said before Serbia should and must be neutral in Georgian/Ukrainian cases

Problems between Georgia Russia and Ukraine must be solved by the Georgians Russians and Ukrainians

I am against any Serbian interfering in mess in Crimea and Caucasus
Knight Hospitaller

Georgia

#187 Mar 24, 2014
reality wrote:
<quoted text>
Until now Nikolic did not recognized Ossetia and Abkhazia.I think he Will not recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia
As i said before Serbia should and must be neutral in Georgian/Ukrainian cases
Problems between Georgia Russia and Ukraine must be solved by the Georgians Russians and Ukrainians
I am against any Serbian interfering in mess in Crimea and Caucasus
Then I think we agree on that, there is no need to arguing between us. Have a good day.

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