Lowell General-Saints rivalry growing...

Lowell General-Saints rivalry growing more intense

There are 63 comments on the Lowell Sun story from Apr 20, 2008, titled Lowell General-Saints rivalry growing more intense. In it, Lowell Sun reports that:

The high-powered and influential group often show up at the same charitable functions, social clubs, and business meetings.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Lowell Sun.

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Hawk

Lowell, MA

#1 Apr 20, 2008
It's all about the Dr's playing these Hospitals against each other to increase their income.Health care will suffer in Lowell and the Greater Lowell due to GREED.
It's disgusting.
lowellian

Dracut, MA

#2 Apr 20, 2008
amen to that. 100% true. Hospitals bow to Dr's like they are their humble servants. Dr's don't want to be on call, Dr's want to leave at 5, Dr's don't want to work weekends...what ever happened to taking care of sick people? illness doesn't have a time clock, neither should you.
sunny

Dracut, MA

#3 Apr 20, 2008
not true. the hospitals administrators are the ones who have the power and their greed is the reason for this issues. they are worried about them , not the comunity. the doc's have tried to press them to improve the services provided and very little have been done. many people leaves the area for care. why?
we need one hospital. time to merge.
Downtown_residen t

Lowell, MA

#4 Apr 20, 2008
Having worked at a Boston teaching hospital for over many years (where I thrived and produced six-figure gains for the hospital year in and year out), and one of these Lowell hospitals for a couple months (where I was practically shackled from productivity), I can tell you there's a difference in the Lowell and Boston hospitals that goes deeper than whether the Lowell hospitals compete for each other's doctors. What you get in these provincial hospitals is top-heavy management disconnected from and weary of its core administrative staff. It is a quandary faced by many small corporate interests, where truly industrious and empowered workers stand to achieve results comparable or exceeding anointed leadership. The Boston hospitals are very different in this regard. The higher their mid-level managers and administrators perform, the higher the executives can reach, extending their leadership well beyond what is found in these silly internecine rivalries, which reflect internal parochial conflicts around core management competencies.
Margaret Davis

Orlando, FL

#5 Apr 20, 2008
This article was well written and easy to comprehend. Many times a reader unfamilar with the topic has a difficult time making sense of it. The author obviousy did some research and wrote the article in a straighforward manner and he/she obvioulsy has a good understanding of the competition involved and how decisions made by the two institution impact the community they serve.
quiltr

United States

#6 Apr 20, 2008
The war has been going on for years, with Saints slowly being cherry-picked ofits profitable departments. They lost Pediatrics,Weight Management, Oncology (though they now have a doctor from Harvard Univ.) and now Maternity. Notice that LGH didn't pick up the endocrinologist who left Saints--not profitable enough.
Observer

Hudson, NH

#7 Apr 20, 2008
The biggest problem I have with this article is it is muddying two points together.

The author correctly talks about the competition resulting in unnecessary duplication of services, but at the same time laments the departure of WomanHealth and the resultant closure of the FBU at Saints'.

From a health care standpoint, the consolidation of birthing services at one facility is the BEST THING that could happen to these resources. Physicians can more appropriately care for mothers and infants at one facility, as opposed to juggling their responsibilities between both. Lowell General had the facilities and resources to absorb the 700 deliveries per year. And in so doing, it also allowed them to petition and receive certification from DPH to provide Level IIB neonatal care, allowing smaller and more critically ill infants to receive care locally, rather than having to be transported to Boston. This is a win-win situation for the community and providers.

Conversely, the aggressive competition in duplicating services such as cardiology and cancer care, is not ultimately in the best interest of the community.

The author makes some good points, but the WomanHealth angle is a bit misleading.

As for the people who like to say this is all about the physicians being greedy. Well, the overwhelming level of ignorance in those declarations doesn't merit wasting time on an intelligent response.
lowering the bar

United States

#8 Apr 20, 2008
Does Lowell really need two full sized hospitals?
In the situation

AOL

#9 Apr 20, 2008
The main problem is Mike Guley. He has no idea how to act as an administrator and tries to do everything like they did in Florida. He threatens the workers instead of working with them and spends the money foolishly by doing a "disney" theme to tell the employees how to act. He was well aware of the fact that OB/GYN was leaving months in advance and said let them leave. As is is attitude toward many doctors as well as staff. What Saints needs is a whole new management. Out with the old who have been in management for years not doing anything and in with the New!!! for example the stupid flashing sign for $80,000 instead of fixing the elevators which are broken every other day.
Observer

Hudson, NH

#10 Apr 20, 2008
What? You didn't think Saints' needed it's own "jumbotron"? Every time I drive by that sign, I wonder to myself 'what the heck were they thinking?'

As for OB/GYN leaving, you are exactly right. That was the worst kept secret in Lowell. The entire nursing staff of FBU knew they were likely leaving last summer! So when Guley comes out and says he was taken by surprise, it makes you wonder...
Concerned consumer

Westford, MA

#11 Apr 20, 2008
What about consumer choice? Competition is necessary in ANY industry and is integral to keeping both LGH and Saints on their toes regarding quality and breadth of services. Having one (combined) hospital in Lowell will not result in savings passed on to consumers, but will ultimately lead to rate increases in services due to the absence of competition that would keep prices (and quality of care) in check. Most major cities in Mass.(Boston, Cambridge, Worcester, Springfield and Lowell) have at least two hospitals serving the needs of their residents. Reducing Lowell's health care resources to one hospital will ultimately drive more area residents to receive care outside the community. This market environment would also prove enticing for a large outside hospital system (MGH, B&W, etc.) to move in to Lowell to broaden its presence and gain market share, should there be only one game in town. A lack of competition in Lowell only asks for trouble and it is consumers of health care services who would ultimately pay the price.
Also In The Situation

Lewiston, ME

#12 Apr 20, 2008
I totally agree with the post from "IN THE SITUATION". There is also many truths in the postings from "lowellian" and "hawk". Many of the physicians will pout and whine and declare "I will take my patients across the river if you don't give me what I want". That now is the new threat at Saints. Mike Guley Is spending money foolishly, spending thousands to send administrators to Disney to learn how to be "nice". to others. That is something my parents taught me. The board should get rid of him before other specialty groups leave and we are run into the ground as were a few other facilities where he was the CEO.
in the know

Sudbury, MA

#13 Apr 21, 2008
agree. but the board knows and they have done nothing. also the people around him, why the don't speak up?
the whole top administration of the hospital is a problem.
the board is also responsible. but they have a nice time going out to fabcy places with the ceo
What the

United States

#14 Apr 21, 2008
Downtown_resident wrote:
Having worked at a Boston teaching hospital for over many years (where I thrived and produced six-figure gains for the hospital year in and year out), and one of these Lowell hospitals for a couple months (where I was practically shackled from productivity), I can tell you there's a difference in the Lowell and Boston hospitals that goes deeper than whether the Lowell hospitals compete for each other's doctors. What you get in these provincial hospitals is top-heavy management disconnected from and weary of its core administrative staff. It is a quandary faced by many small corporate interests, where truly industrious and empowered workers stand to achieve results comparable or exceeding anointed leadership. The Boston hospitals are very different in this regard. The higher their mid-level managers and administrators perform, the higher the executives can reach, extending their leadership well beyond what is found in these silly internecine rivalries, which reflect internal parochial conflicts around core management competencies.
Bet it took you a long time to come up with all those big words...Run on sentence though. It didn't end up sounding intelligent.
lowellian

Dracut, MA

#15 Apr 21, 2008
In the situation wrote:
The main problem is Mike Guley. He has no idea how to act as an administrator and tries to do everything like they did in Florida. He threatens the workers instead of working with them and spends the money foolishly by doing a "disney" theme to tell the employees how to act. He was well aware of the fact that OB/GYN was leaving months in advance and said let them leave. As is is attitude toward many doctors as well as staff. What Saints needs is a whole new management. Out with the old who have been in management for years not doing anything and in with the New!!! for example the stupid flashing sign for $80,000 instead of fixing the elevators which are broken every other day.
I believe there is a difference between threatening workers, and saying "either do the job we are paying you for, or find another job..." in other words, the hospital no longer is looking to support dead weight. All the people who half-a$$ it and whine "it's not my job" or "well, i'm going to get fired anyway so I'm not doing it" are the ones who bad mouth Guley etc. the most.

Sure, he's pertty blunt, but you know, growth does not happen without change. And unfortunately many times people do not like, and are not willing to change. "this is how its always been done" "we've tried it before it didn't work so we're not trying it again"...is too common, and will only keep SMC from moving forward.

Innovation, commitment, creativity, enthusiasm...THAT is what is needed to create a better environment for both patients and staff. not the same ho-hum "management is the cause of all problems" bs. The people who drag through the day and refuse to take responsiblity for their actions, are the ones who gripe the loudest, and this is true in ANY industry.

So before you knock Guley, or Admin, or the management...ask how much you did last week. Did you do your job the way it should be done to the best of your ability, or did you just do enough to get by....did you stay the extra 15 minutes to finish a project, did you walk a patient who was lost to where they were going...or did you jump out at 5:00 on the dot, and just kind of point the way.....and this can be said for employees at any hospital...anywhere.

what the heck happened to work ethic, common sense, loyalty..ownership in your work, and being proud of what you and your company do....i know my parents were dinosaurs of their generation...but these values were instilled in me, and others, and I know they were taught to others... did people just forget? or has it truly become about the money.
her

Windsor, CT

#16 Apr 21, 2008
Lowellian, it has tuley just become all about me myself and I out there. I like you have a mother who goes the extra mile and wonder why she does when no one else seems to care. Thank God at least some people still do.
her

Windsor, CT

#17 Apr 21, 2008
"truly" Spelling error
OG Frank

North Reading, MA

#18 Apr 21, 2008
Couple of things. Doctors, like any other workers have the right to take advantage of better offers. If LGH wants to pay them, more power to them.
As far as Boston Hospitals v Local Hospitals, I have to say in my experience you get better after care in Lowell. In Boston you are a person taking up a bed. Now obviously Boston has better specialists, however I prefer to stay up here.
Saints has been slowly going down hill. The birthing unit was leaving, everyone in the industry knew that, the director saying it was a surprise was a crock.
her

Windsor, CT

#19 Apr 21, 2008
Our family always uses Saints when we can, I went in the other day for blood work and the woman at the front desk acted as if I wasn't there... But when I went in for an x-ray the same day they couldn't have been any nicer or pleasant. I guess we all have our personalities. For the most part the people at Saints have been great to us. Its to bad about the birthing unit. The nurses were absolutely wonderful and caring, at least the ones I got. I hope they find a way to work this all out for the best of the community.
Currently Pregnant

Waltham, MA

#20 Apr 21, 2008
As a Womanhealth patient due to deliver later this spring, I would hardly say the transition has been seamless. I delivered my first two babies in the FBU at Saints and couldn't have been treated better, from the individualized attention to the compassionate care I received from the nursing staff.
Just from personal experience, the treatment I've had at the Birthplace at LGH so far has been subpar at best.

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