Homeopathy is properly regulated

Homeopathy is properly regulated

There are 33 comments on the Waterloo Chronicle story from Mar 31, 2010, titled Homeopathy is properly regulated. In it, Waterloo Chronicle reports that:

True to form, Dr. Terry Polevoy is again confused and astounded. This time his confusion is about Charlotte Parkhill's article on the walk-in homeopath Tracy Poizner.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Waterloo Chronicle.

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Mark

Conder, Australia

#2 Mar 31, 2010
This section of the original article is full of logical fallacies:

"Polevoy then states that “homeopathy is not a(sic) effective treatment for any real medical illness”."

Mark - This is a true statement

"Yet it is practiced worldwide, has endured for over 200 years and is becoming more recognized and researched all the time."

Mark - So has slavery & genocide yet most would not consider doing those just because they have been practiced worldwide for thousands of years. We have here the logical fallacies argumentum ad populum & its cousin appeal to antiquity.

"Two hundred years of clinical trials can’t all be wrong!"

Mark - yes they can if poor methodological controls are used. This just happens to be the case with homeopathy trials where any positive results vanish when proper controls are set in place. Funnily enough homeopaths will then blame the tests as being faulty & claim you cannot test homeopathy like the rest of medical science but somehow will still offer poorly controlled tests as evidence.

"Polevoy’s implication that homeopathy works only as a placebo does not explain the well-known fact that homeopathy is effective on animals and children who are immune to the placebo effect."

Mark - A placebo can be anything that gives comfort - the knowledge that you are taking a pill, a gentle voice & a pat, a hug from a teddy bear - these are all placebos.

"The big advantage of homeopathy, as people who use it know, is its effectiveness and its lack of dangerous side effects."

Mark - we don't know that because it fails tests & in the US only has to prove it is not toxic to the FDA for approval, not that it works.

"I hope this clears up the confusion for Polevoy."

Mark - it only clears up the fact that the articles author is full of s**t.

"John W. Bender BSc. ND Doctor of Naturopathy"

Mark - wonder what the "BS" stands for.
C Redd

Towaco, NJ

#3 Mar 31, 2010
In contrast to homeopathics, drug companies buy and pay for the "unbiased" clinical trials they use to get their drugs through FDA approval and onto the market where they're used by unaware patients every day.

Here's the headline:

"Pfizer Gives Details of Payments to Doctors"

Pfizer states it paid about $20 million to 4,500 doctors and other medical professionals for consulting and speaking on its behalf during the last six months of 2009. Pfizer also paid $15.3 million to 250 academic medical centers and other research groups for clinical trials in the same period. While other drug companies have disclosed payments to doctors, Pfizer is the first to disclose payments for clinical trials. This disclosure does NOT include payments to companies outside the US. It was part of an integrity agreement Pfizer signed in August, 2009, to settle US Department of Justice investigations into its illegal (criminal) promotion of drugs for off-label use.

Pfizer is the FOURTH drug company to make these types of disclosures. It follows Eli Lilly, Merck and GlaxoSmithKline.

www.nytimes.com/2010/04/01/business/01payment...

Mark, people who live in glass houses.......
Mark

Australia

#4 Apr 1, 2010
@C Redd - when will homeopathy makers have the same honesty as Pfizer. So Pfizer paid to actually test their products, one can only wish homeopathy makers to do the same.

And heres another thing homeopathy makers never do, a full disclosure:

http://www.pfizer.com/responsibility/working_...
Mark

Australia

#5 Apr 1, 2010
C Redd like any profession there are honest hard working folk & there are a-holes. Just because a doctor is paid doesn't automatically means they are corrupt. Perhaps they were part of a large scale trial or doing some other work for the company. Do you work for free?

Where corruption comes in is in the objective like being paid to produce fake results for a court case (Andrew Wakefield).
C Redd

Towaco, NJ

#6 Apr 1, 2010
Mark wrote:
@C Redd - when will homeopathy makers have the same honesty as Pfizer. So Pfizer paid to actually test their products, one can only wish homeopathy makers to do the same.
And heres another thing homeopathy makers never do, a full disclosure:
http://www.pfizer.com/responsibility/working_...
My dear Mark,

Why do you think the US Department of Justice investigated Pfizer in the first place? Why do you think they found Pfizer guilty of criminal activity in their illegal promotions of drugs including: 1) paying doctors to testify their drugs were effective when, in fact, they were never proven to be effective, 2) paying for fabricated studies claiming effectiveness that did not exist. Why do you think Pfizer pled guilty and was fined $430 MILLION for this type of activity in relation to the way it marketed Neurontin? Why do you think Pfizer pled guilty and was fined $2.3 BILLION dollars for the same types of activity in regard to other drugs?

www.treatingandbeating.com/newsletters_letter...
www.drugrecalls.com/neurontin.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090902/ap_on_go_...

There really is no way to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, is there?
Mark

Australia

#7 Apr 1, 2010
C Redd wrote:
<quoted text>
My dear Mark,
Why do you think the US Department of Justice investigated Pfizer in the first place? Why do you think they found Pfizer guilty of criminal activity in their illegal promotions of drugs including: 1) paying doctors to testify their drugs were effective when, in fact, they were never proven to be effective, 2) paying for fabricated studies claiming effectiveness that did not exist. Why do you think Pfizer pled guilty and was fined $430 MILLION for this type of activity in relation to the way it marketed Neurontin? Why do you think Pfizer pled guilty and was fined $2.3 BILLION dollars for the same types of activity in regard to other drugs?
www.treatingandbeating.com/newsletters_letter...
www.drugrecalls.com/neurontin.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090902/ap_on_go_...
There really is no way to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, is there?
And? None of the above proves homeopathy works - homeopathy in untested nonsense. Any company who misleads the public in marketing drugs that don't work (like homeopathy) should be charged with fraud.

Note - your first & third links are dead.

The second link is for Pfizer marketing an epilepsy drug for other untested uses. Some pretty much like homeopathy. Pfizer were probably just following homeopathies marketing plan.

I can also link to dodgy homeopathic practices such as Zicam homeopathic nasal spray causing people to loose their sense of smell (Q: how do they smell? A: bloody awful!):

http://www.attorneyatlaw.com/2009/06/zicam-co...
C Redd

Towaco, NJ

#8 Apr 1, 2010
1. Did anyone say that the fact that conventional drugs don't work and cause serious iatrogenic diseases proves that homeopathy works?

NO!

Homeopathy has been proven to work (WITHOUT causing iatrogenic diseases) through 200 years' of clinical work around the world and 100's of methodologically reliable, controlled studies--- AS I NOTED ABOVE. That you prefer not to acknowledge those studies or that work does not invalidate it/them or make it/them disappear.

2. Since you are google-handicapped, for info on Pfizer's $430M and $2.3B fines for criminal marketing of drugs see:

www.treatingandbeating.com/newsletters_letter...

www.businessweek.com/budaily/dnflash/content/...

www.cnn.com/2009/BUSINESS/09/02/Pfizerfine/in...

3. The difference between conventional drugs and homeopathy is that homeopathy gets the job done but doesn't cause additional diseases which the patient must then suffer and treat as happens with conventional drugs.

4. You finally got one right! Neurontin is an anti-epileptic drug that was criminally marketed for many other purposes including as a pain killer. It was never tested for these other uses but was marketed for them using falsified, paid-for testimony from doctors and research groups.

5. You're beating a dead horse. At this point, everyone knows Zicam is not and was not homeopathic but was falsely advertised as such.

Just keep putting your foot in it!


C Redd

Towaco, NJ

#9 Apr 1, 2010
My apologies to other readers here. The links don't seem to work. Please see the site www.treatingandbeating.com or google "Pfizer $430M Fine" and "Pfizer $2.3B Fine" for details of the charges, Pfizer's guilty plea and the fines levied on Pfizer by the US Department of Justice. Pfizer was also ordered to disclose the payments it made in public (see NY Times article) and on its web site per Mark's link.
Mark

Australia

#10 Apr 1, 2010
C Redd wrote:
My apologies to other readers here. The links don't seem to work. Please see the site www.treatingandbeating.com or google "Pfizer $430M Fine" and "Pfizer $2.3B Fine" for details of the charges, Pfizer's guilty plea and the fines levied on Pfizer by the US Department of Justice. Pfizer was also ordered to disclose the payments it made in public (see NY Times article) and on its web site per Mark's link.
or just try this link as it explains homeopathy:



http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Mark

Canberra, Australia

#12 Jun 26, 2010
Dr_Nancy_Malik wrote:
The regulation of health care practice varies from one country to another. As far as people demand quality multi-dimensional health care, governments are obliged to provide.
Wow! Do homeopaths think they can treat people in alternate realities? Not surprising I suppose since the seem to live in one where water cures everything.
SPQR

New York, NY

#13 Jan 4, 2012
Homeopathy is purely placebo effect. There is no consistent evidence that homeopathy is effective for many conditions. Someone said that there are tons of clinical trials proving that it works. Um, ever looked at the QUALITY of how those clinical trials were conducted????

Taking homeopathy is tantamount to taking something that has been watered down to one part per [x] thousand and adding sugar. Seriously??? And what about all of the serious ethical issues regarding taking homeopathic medicines in place of vaccines.????!!! And in children for crying out loud! Vaccines have saved millions of lives and have improved the quality of life for many. What, are you going to give a child in a region with endemic polio a "homeopathic polio vaccine"?? Is that ethical?? Really???!! There are some serious ethical issues for homeopathy. How lopsided could this argument be.. "Oh big pharma is the problem, big pharma is evil." Many of you might not even be alive if it were not for vaccines. Or at least most of the population was not vaccinated. If you are in the Western world, and were not vaccinated, you can likely thank herd immunity for your lack of sickness from major preventable diseases (like polio, or measles, the list goes on!). Don't know what that means? Look it up. The truth is that although pharmaceuticals have done harm, they have also done a hell of a lot of good. It also depends on HOW they are used. If you have an incompetent health care provider prescribing, then guess what, there will be an increased risk of adverse effects from the medicines. So, what is the solution? BETTER EDUCATION. Not "down with pharma." Get with the program!

Skip paying out of the nose for homeopathic "remedies" and just swallow a spoon of sugar. It is essentially equivalent.

No, I absolutely think that there should be regulation, and proper educational programs in this area. No question.

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#14 Jan 6, 2012
Alright you rabid homeopathic deniers, and this is also for those that wish to get a better idea of homeopathy from a real life account. I'm not a homeopath, I'm a "patient" with a real story.

The great Randi? Doesn't prove squat; you can drink a gallon of a remedy that is not specific to your body and nothing will happen. Or you could take too much of one that IS specific and maybe it could kill you. But if you're not chronically ill then you can drink all the homeopathy in the world and it won't do anything, IOW there are no remedies that will function in your body if you're healthy as far as I know. I'm not 100% sure though because I haven't tried drinking a gallon of a nonspecific remedy myself, but what follows in the next several posts is my story that I am sure of, because it's my story.

You can call it just water all you want, I find it just as magical as you deniers only I know it works so who cares what it is, all that proves is reality is very elusive which we already should realize.

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#15 Jan 6, 2012


My story :

It started 6 years ago. I was healthy. Not a worry in the world. Then one day I was hit with MCS (Multiple Chemical Sensitivity), I was hit with prostatitis, I was hit with rhuematic symptoms in my hands and knees, elbows and feet. Also diagnosed with CPPD. I thought I was dying. Winter was the hardest. By the second winter my prostate would shut me down every month in the winter for a couple days, that was my biggest worry even though my MCS made me fee like I was dying, I mean as long as I wore my respirator when I needed it I could live with some comfort.

I tried everything over the course of five years; nothing helped. Doctors had nothing except flomax for prostate (which I declined), nothing for MCS, and I could have taken methotrexate for rheumatoid but again I declined; I seemed to be able to control it by omitting aggravating foods such as wheat and tomato, etc, and you deniers probably don't believe that foods can aggravate rhuematoid, and believe it or not foods can also aggravate a prostate, I discovered that oranges would make me have that heaviness and dull achy pain in the prostate area and I would have to pee every ten minutes for like two hours or more about an hour after eating the orange or tea with orange peel in it. Repeat that ten times with oranges and it's official wouldn't you say?)

I was ready to give up, I was ready to get the darn prostate removed, my urologist was already planning on doing laser surgery as I couldn't take it anymore but I heard of homeopathy and decided to hold out and try it even though at that point I was skeptical just like you bonehead deniers are now.

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#16 Jan 6, 2012
...continued

Well my first experience with homeopathy was horrible because I took the internet-available remedies that were issue-specific and my prostate closed up so bad I thought I was going to explode, but finally it let go. This was about a year ago. My next step was to google homeopathy and I realized that this is a bastardization of the practice when you buy medicines specifically for an issue. You have to submit ALL your SYMPTOMS to a database that has been organized over the last 200 or 300 years starting with homeopathy's founder Samuel Hanneman, and it chooses ONE remedy for you to try. A fourteen page questioneer is what I filled out with my first professional homeopath, you can't just call a homeopath and tell them what you have and expect them to prescribe something, it takes effort to examine the person as a WHOLE.

You only try one remedy at a time so that you can guage what is happening. Many people get the wrong remedy the first time so they lose faith. You have to keep trying or get a better homeopath. I was lucky and got a remedy the first try that was good enough to be considered the right one. But it took me a long time to figure it out, it was a long road of lost and regained faith in the remedy; it's not easy (though my mother is having an easy time getting results with her issues).

My problem (and I think it's a common problem with homeopathy) was that I wasn't sure whether I took too much or too little remedy. See, too much and it aggravates your symptoms, so it's hard to tell if it's a normal trigger causing it or too much remedy; after all homeopathy is designed to treat the same symptoms than a full strength extract would induce in a healthy individual (remedies are ultra dilutions of original full strength extracts, and with my science background it even makes me reconsider everything I thought I knew about the structure and properties of matter especially liquid matter).

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#17 Jan 6, 2012
...continued

Well after about a couple weeks my urinary frequency slowed down. I was thrilled about that. Six years of suffering and two weeks to make the first dent. It was a couple months before I noticed my MCS symptoms were improved. YES for the first time in 6 years I was ....not cured...but MANAGEABLE, which to me was priceless; I didn't wear my resirator the entire summer practically. It was like being freed from living hell, my life was manageable.

Then in the fall season I slumped into a state of aggravated symptoms again (because I overdosed but at the time didn't realize it, see with my particular remedy you have to take less and less and I'm finally learning just how little "less" should be) so I started doubting the homeopathy again.

Well it's all about sticking with it and really concentrating on what's going on, most people these days throw their hands up after a month of no results and say "this is BS!". This went on all throughout the fall season. My last dose was the first week of November. Well the past two months have been pretty rough, I made sure not to take anymore remedy to see if I would return to that improved state because I was suspicious that I was overdosed but was not wanting to "antidote" because I was afraid of backpeddling and losing ground overall. Google homeopathy to learn about antidoting (better yet read Amy Lansky's book "The Impossible Cure").

Well finally just about a week ago I couldn't wait anymore so in a last ditch effort I anitdoted to see if indeed I was in a state of overdose of the remedy for months on end. Well it brought me down to a level where I felt better the very next day. I was able to handle exhaust fumes without a respirator again, I was able to take things I would never be able to take at ANY time during the 5 years prior to homeopathy. AND I Was wizzing like a champ (my prostate was doin alright). This means I will have to redose soon but until my symptoms get aggravated I will not redose, and when I redose I will make sure I take a VERY little amount.

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#18 Jan 6, 2012
...conclusion

Remember that everyone is different and in my case I had to take less and less. My mother on the other hand has to take more and more. Also remember the homeopath is only, at best, as good as YOU can describe yourself and your symptoms. So the homeopath's main job is to interpret you and find the right remedy and guide you, but it's up to you to experiment with it and figure out how it works best for you, it's YOUR body.

Is it a cure? Not yet but it might be eventually now that I figured out my dosages. But even if it never turns out to be a total cure it is priceless to be able to get managable.

CAN ALLOPATHY DO THAT? I appreciate allopathy when it comes to surgery and such, it has it's place with no substitute, heck we can't be without it nowadays, but cmon, give credit where it's due, HOMEOPATHY IS NOT A PLACEBO UNLESS YOU THINK PLACEBO CAN CURE PROSTATITIS, AND AT THAT POINT WHO CARES WHAT IT IS AS LONG AS IT WORKS.

Oh, btw wintertime is the true test of homeopathy in my case because these autoimmune issues I have are always the worst in winter. The fact that I still have my prostate is a testament to homeopathy. Did I just coincidentally get better by myself? Yea for 5 years I had consistent symptoms and then right after my first professional homeopathy I felt the difference. Yea right, coincidence. Makes me wanna pursue a career in homeopathy though I'm a bit old to start soemthing like that.

Good luck to all who seek. If only the world was overrun by pure intention!

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#19 Jan 6, 2012
I forgot to mention that I tried naturopathy but had no luck with it. I tried the M.R.S 2000 electromagnetic threapy but no luck. I do however believe naturopathy has it's place, I would never put it down but I do dislike the confidence naturopaths have that they can cure things they can't. I think they can have decent results in many cases with some of these things but in people like me, well it didn't cut it.

But I'll tell ya this much, turmeric root got my prostate through as far as it did.(had to order the whole root and grind it fresh myself and put it in capsules, was very hard to find whole root turmeric). But I was not improving, I was still getting worse, though without it I would have had the darn thing surgically removed years ago.

And without homeopathy I would have had the prostate out by now, one year ago in February I was ready for surgery, I told the urologist I would call when I was ready. And that meant I would call if and when the homeopathy failed. Well it did not fail.

And for those that are trying to use herbal teas or herbal supplements to help a prostate, you have to watch, many times the same tea that helps a prostate in the first few weeks will eventually aggravate it so if that happens you have to only have the tea a couple times a week at most.
Mark

Braddon, Australia

#20 Jan 6, 2012
@Pokay - And??? What you have told us is an anecdote, a story. Maybe everything you said is correct or maybe there was misdiagnosis or maybe you are a homeopath hoping to scam others.

http://www.medicinenet.com/prostatitis/articl... : What is prostatitis?

Prostatitis is the general term used to describe prostate inflammation (-itis). Because the term is so general, it does not adequately describe the range of abnormalities that can be associated with prostate inflammation. Therefore, four types of prostatitis are recognized.

What are the types and symptoms of prostatitis?

There are four types of prostatitis:
1) acute bacterial prostatitis
2) chronic bacterial prostatitis
3) chronic prostatitis without infection
4) asymptomatic inflammatory prostatitis

The last of these is treated as follows:

Treatment is not required for this type of prostatitis.

Therefore you may have suffered this form that progressed to its usual conclusion and taking homeopathy did nothing.

But as none of us can confirm anything you have written we are left with medical trials which show homeopathy does nothing when the trials are properly controlled.

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#21 Jan 7, 2012
Mark wrote:
@Pokay - And??? What you have told us is an anecdote, a story. Maybe everything you said is correct or maybe there was misdiagnosis or maybe you are a homeopath hoping to scam others.
http://www.medicinenet.com/prostatitis/articl... : What is prostatitis?
Prostatitis is the general term used to describe prostate inflammation (-itis). Because the term is so general, it does not adequately describe the range of abnormalities that can be associated with prostate inflammation. Therefore, four types of prostatitis are recognized.
What are the types and symptoms of prostatitis?
There are four types of prostatitis:
1) acute bacterial prostatitis
2) chronic bacterial prostatitis
3) chronic prostatitis without infection
4) asymptomatic inflammatory prostatitis
The last of these is treated as follows:
Treatment is not required for this type of prostatitis.
Therefore you may have suffered this form that progressed to its usual conclusion and taking homeopathy did nothing.
But as none of us can confirm anything you have written we are left with medical trials which show homeopathy does nothing when the trials are properly controlled.
What the heck is your problem? You obviously didn't read anything of what I wrote, you're all over these boards just to spout your contempt. What drives you? Did you have a loved one grossly overdose on some homeopathy? The only real danger it poses is to take away business from allopathic practice that can't offer the same results. I never said homeopathy was a substitute for allopathy, but neither does it work vice versa. Give credit where it's due.

My story is my story, I'm not a homeopath. I presented a true account of what is happening with me so that others can benefit from it. What alterior incentive/motive would I have to come here and post a BS story? Homeopaths are not starving that I can see, but if I were a starving homeopath I think I would blog on a local site, not international. Homeopaths don't have to engage in what you're doing in order to get business. The ones I know are too busy to waste time blogging anyway. What constructive things do you with *your* life if you're on here putting homeopathy down all the time?

I'm just thrilled beyond words that I didn't have to take my prostate out and that I don't have to wear my respirator anymore.

I know the four types of prostatitis thank you. Mine was/is #3. Why would my urologist suggest laser surgery if it were #1, 2 or 4? Get a clue dude, I'm getting my life back and that's priceless, in this toxic world.

My prostate was very symptomatic, I was risking sepsis for God's sakes, you think I was misdiagnosed?

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#22 Jan 7, 2012
Dark Mark wrote,
"Treatment is not required for this type of prostatitis.
Therefore you may have suffered this form that progressed to its usual conclusion and taking homeopathy did nothing."

Yea I suffered for 5 years straight and then coincidentally right after I started the homeopathy my frequency normalized significantly, and then followed by a better stream also.

Yea coincidence for sure. Pay attention here, I did *not* say I was cured, there was no "conclusion" yet. I am still dealing with abnormality but I'm in a very manageable state and hoping for eventual cure, I'm still in progress with the homeopathy. Sometimes it's a 'one two three and out' healing process but for chronic illness it's not easy; so far though it's priceless.

And speaking of money, only the first visit is expensive. After that, much is done by free phone consult with my homeopath. An office visit is only $85. In a year I've spent $360 for initial visit. And twice I've been back for a consult. Total for year was $520. And this year it's likely I won't need more than one or two visits. So what, another $160? Big deal. How many people are stuck paying hospital bills the rest of their lives?

Oh and on top of that, if you would have read my story you'd see prostatitis was not my only problem. I also have MCS and I used to get severe flank pain. Well my MCS became manageable and I never got another flank pain until I overdosed the remedy, which went away again after antidoting.

What are you gonna say next?

Oh and my homeopath is also an MD. I'm sure she's not the only allopath that has recognized the value of homeopathy. You think she's making more money with homeopathy? Hardly. At least there are some good people left.

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