I always get my massages in the nude,...

I always get my massages in the nude, what's the big deal?

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James

Avenel, NJ

#1 Jan 15, 2010
I go to male and female massage therapists, and request that my massage be done while I'm nude and natural. I have not ever had anyone say it no. I get my massage like anyone else, nothing sexual or erotic about it, and I go. I don't see what's the big deal about it. I have heard that some therapists wont allow a client to be nude, and I think that is just ridiculous. The client's comfort is what is important, and as trained therapist they should have more sense. What if doctors said a person couldn't be nude...??? Get the picture?
LMT

Macedonia, OH

#2 Jan 17, 2010
James wrote:
I go to male and female massage therapists, and request that my massage be done while I'm nude and natural. I have not ever had anyone say it no. I get my massage like anyone else, nothing sexual or erotic about it, and I go. I don't see what's the big deal about it. I have heard that some therapists wont allow a client to be nude, and I think that is just ridiculous. The client's comfort is what is important, and as trained therapist they should have more sense. What if doctors said a person couldn't be nude...??? Get the picture?
What doctors have you been to? Any doctor that encourages unnecessary nudity would quickly be stripped of his/her license and could face criminal prosecution. When ladies get a chest x-ray, they are in a gown. Even when they get mammography, the breast is only undraped in front of the compression plate and quickly re-draped after the image is taken. When nurses catheterize a patient in the hospital, they don't strip off the bed covers and hospital gown to make the patient more "relaxed." They undrape only what's necessary and re-drape after the catheter is in place. The "big deal" here is professionalism, and the mandate to all health-care workers to "do no harm." Eroticism is not part of any medical therapy, and those who use it to entice repeat business are doing harm.
sorry for you

Odessa, TX

#3 Jan 17, 2010
LMT, you really must be a sad and bitter person. I'll pray for you to be happy some day and I invite others to do the same.
LMT

Macedonia, OH

#4 Jan 18, 2010
sorry for you wrote:
LMT, you really must be a sad and bitter person. I'll pray for you to be happy some day and I invite others to do the same.
Sad and bitter? Because I don't have to resort to unprofessional behavior to fill my schedule? Sounds like a little "sad and bitter" jealousy is going on here...
I am immensely proud to practice professionalism, and I invite others to do the same.

“Live Laugh Love”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#5 Jan 18, 2010
James, a clients comfort is important, but a client does not have the right to make the LMT uncomfortable or expect an LMT to perform something that is unethical and in many states illegal. Exhibitionism is not something to flaunt while getting a massage.

I wish someone would explain a medical reason to be undraped. I don't buy into the whole "I just hate it when the sheets are being adjusted". If you can't remain relaxed while a competent LMT spends a few seconds adjusting a sheet, then you have bigger problems than relaxation. What do you do when TP's are being worked? How about some deep tissue work - can you stay relaxed during that? What about a nice deep stretch of the hamstrings?

For all the people who prefer a nude massage, please get over yourselves and play by the established rules or go home.
Paul

Birmingham, AL

#6 Jan 21, 2010
Fullermassage wrote:
...
For all the people who prefer a nude massage, please get over yourselves and play by the established rules or go home.
Fuller, the reason we don't have to simply "go home" is because there are plenty of therapists out there who are willing to bend and break those established rules.

I know you and LMT deny this, or say those aren't real therapists but rather "prostitutes."

Call them what you will. But the fact is, there are a decent number of licensed, qualified massage therapists who will perform an undraped massage. This is legal in some states, illegal in most, but I certainly don't think it's unethical if client and provider agree.

There are also a smaller number of licensed, qualified therapists who will provide a "happy ending" at the conclusion of a massage. Again, you can call them names if you want, but they're out there. And once again, this sort of thing is illegal, but I don't agree that ANY sexual contact between consenting adults is unethical. And it shouldn't be illegal.

If this sort of service didn't exist, anywhere, we wouldn't be here discussing it. But the fact is, it does exist. And while I don't think these providers are "prostitutes," I understand your reasoning for not wanting them included in the larger category of "massage therapists," either.

As a society, we'd all be better served if the therapists offering these sorts of services could advertise them openly and without deceit. If there could be categories in the yellow pages for "sensual massage," and separately, "therapeutic massage." That way, therapists who do NOT wish to offer any sensual services wouldn't be bothered with those requests.

Unfortunately, our prudish society requires these sorts of things to be "under the table," so to speak. And this means that, at times, therapists will be asked about services they don't provide. That is unfortunate.

“Live Laugh Love”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#7 Jan 21, 2010
Paul, it is interesting that you talk about "bending the rules" as if this makes it okay. There is also the problem of receiving money for sexual favors. What we resent is the client/MT who decides they have the right to bend or break the rules that affect ALL of us. The rules are there for a reason. Every business has established laws and rules that do not allow for "bending", what makes my job any different?
Sexual contact between consenting adults is one thing, but when money changes hands that changes the dynamics of the whole situation. It has such a huge impact on all MTs that yes, we do constantly fight against this and sometimes get snarky. There have to be rules in place so that the average MT does NOT have to deal with any unwanted requests.
I don't think it is even about our society being prudish (whether we are or not), but establishing massage as a legitimate modality that is apart from prostitution. There are too many men who still think of massage as the same as prostitution, and to be honest, I am sick and tired of the occasional phone call/ request for sexual favors. Sure, I can hang up the phone or kick out the client who requests such things, but why should I have to when there are already established laws and boundaries?
I appreciate your manner of "speaking" here and keeping the conversation adult and polite. I strive to do the same, but have to admit to getting frustrated and a little sharp tongued.
Paul

Birmingham, AL

#8 Jan 22, 2010
I guess I wish there were three "modalities," as you say. Therapeutic massage, prostitution, and a third category which falls in between the two. Call it "sensual massage," call it "aromatherapy," whatever.

The name isn't important, as long as everyone understood that certain services were available; but those same services were definitely NOT available at therapeutic massage establishments.

And again, I say -- if this sort of thing NEVER happened, no one would be here talking about it. If I had NEVER received a handjob at the conclusion of a massage from a licensed therapist, I wouldn't know that such a thing existed.

In fact, the first time it ever happened to me, it was at the therapist's suggestion. She first suggested undraped massage, then suggested the happy ending (as well as what an appropriate tip might be for such service.)

Because I have received this same sort of service from other therapists over the years, I know it's out there. And that means that I might be seeking it again from time to time. I apologize to those offended by that.

Now. I "seek" this service in a respectful, inoffensive way. After I've seen a new therapist 2 or 3 times, I ask about undraped massage.

If she says no to that, I never ask again, or ask for any "extras," period.(Unless she brings it up at a later date, which has happened a couple of times.)

If undraped massage is acceptable, over the next few sessions, we might discuss other subjects. It all depends on the rapport we develop and if I feel that she's open to the conversation. Again, if I find out (or just have a hunch) that she isn't interested in any non-therapeutic services, I don't ask again, I don't pressure.

I don't believe I've ever offended any of my therapists. I certainly haven't ever offended anyone to the point where I was asked to leave, or asked not to return for future visits.

I understand that not everyone broaches the subject in a respectful way, and that is a shame. Again, if the therapists willing to provide such service could legally and openly advertise, none of us would have these problems.
Tim

Chester, VA

#9 Jan 27, 2010
I'm curious, for those of you who practice massage therapy in states where draping is required by law. Does that mean table showers are not allowed at all in those states? Are they technically supposed to be done with covering as well? Are they only allowed in spas but not massage? It's all rather strange to me that such puritanical regulations are still around in some places for a field that is pretty forward-thinking.

“Live Laugh Love”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#10 Jan 27, 2010
Tim, the use of a wet table is under the aegis of spa treatments, not massage. I guess that means you are comparing apples and oranges.
Tim

Chester, VA

#11 Jan 27, 2010
Fullermassage wrote:
Tim, the use of a wet table is under the aegis of spa treatments, not massage. I guess that means you are comparing apples and oranges.
That's what I thought, but it seems there is some gray area since there are spas that offer massage and massage places that have table showers. So I guess in some states it's legal to be fully exposed when you're in the room with the wet table (because that's a spa), but not when you're in the room with the dry table (because that's a massage), even though it's often with the same treatment provider? I realize they have to draw the line somewhere, but that seems rather arbitrary.

And before LMT responds, let me clarify that I'm referring to places that actually give massages, not places that are fronts for prostitution.

“Live Laugh Love”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#12 Jan 27, 2010
The spa treatment has nothing to do with therapeutic massage. These same places also offer hair treatments, nail treatments, pedicures, etc. Yes, a therapeutic massage can also be found at a spa, but is not the same as getting a body treatment that requires a wet table. A body treatment is not considered a massage. While the same person may give a body treatment and a massage, it is still two different areas with different rules. A hairdresser may also be trained at giving pedicures, cross training is not unusual at a spa. I had some training in spa procedures while at massage school, it is totally different than giving someone a massage.

Massage laws and protocols differ from any other treatment you would seek at a spa, just as hair care professionals have their own set of rules and regulations, licensing, etc.

I am trying to understand the desire to be massaged in the nude and not have it relate to sex, but am struggling with the idea. I have to be honest, until I started reading on this forum I had no idea that people actually had issues with draping. I am quite open and honest about my body, could care less who see it, yet still feel relaxed and comfortable with draping while getting massaged.

It is interesting to note that the vast majority of those asking on this forum for/about undraped massage are male.
Paul

Birmingham, AL

#13 Jan 27, 2010
Fullermassage wrote:
It is interesting to note that the vast majority of those asking on this forum for/about undraped massage are male.
I think there are two reasons for that -- for some men, undraped massage is partially or completely linked to sexual contact. I consider myself in the "partially linked" camp. An undraped massage is still preferable for me, with or without sexual contact.

The second reason is that, in general, men are much more comfortable with their bodies than women. Because, for the most part, we're not judged on our bodies the way women are.
Smoothassilk

United States

#14 Feb 4, 2010
When we were born, the good Lord did not drape us. Rather, it's the whacked, prudish scocietal norms that have developed over time here in the U.S. There are still many of us who prefer to be in that natural state as God intended. It helps us relax. Is that not the purpose of a massage? Just because someone is naked, it does not imply sex. Return to the Lord, rejoice and be natural.
Grille56

Buffalo Grove, IL

#16 Feb 4, 2010
What a difficult issue for the massage therapy industry. Until recently my only experience with massage has been for relaxation at resorts spas. I have started regular massage treatment along with physical therapy for a leg injury. This has been a difficult journey. It seems the choices that I found include the spa, the chains, therapists practicing with chiropractors, and the independent practitioner.
With the spas and the chains I feel there is a great deal of distraction around other services such as hair and nails. It seems like a lot of these places dictate the massage routine and there is not a lot of room for the therapist to deviate. The other problem is the turn over at these places. The chiropractors seem to want a life time commitment. The independent practitioner poses a different problem. For a therapeutic experience I feel this is probably the best avenue but there are problems. First is how to find a therapist. I found this difficult. Craig’s list and local newspaper listings kind of scared me. I wasn’t comfortable with sorting out legitimate vs questionable ads.
I did finally get some good references from my gym and have found a good therapist who has really helped me. But there still is a problem. There is a stigma around massage. Low lights, soothing music and candles don’t help. These conversations about draped/undraped, male vs female therapist and what if I get an erection don’t help. And most important the prostitution arrest of a massage therapist at the very high end hair spa around the corner doesn’t help. I am almost embarrassed to tell my friends I get regular massage.
LMT

Macedonia, OH

#17 Feb 4, 2010
Grille56 wrote:
What a difficult issue for the massage therapy industry. Until recently my only experience with massage has been for relaxation at resorts spas. I have started regular massage treatment along with physical therapy for a leg injury. This has been a difficult journey. It seems the choices that I found include the spa, the chains, therapists practicing with chiropractors, and the independent practitioner.
With the spas and the chains I feel there is a great deal of distraction around other services such as hair and nails. It seems like a lot of these places dictate the massage routine and there is not a lot of room for the therapist to deviate. The other problem is the turn over at these places. The chiropractors seem to want a life time commitment. The independent practitioner poses a different problem. For a therapeutic experience I feel this is probably the best avenue but there are problems. First is how to find a therapist. I found this difficult. Craig’s list and local newspaper listings kind of scared me. I wasn’t comfortable with sorting out legitimate vs questionable ads.
I did finally get some good references from my gym and have found a good therapist who has really helped me. But there still is a problem. There is a stigma around massage. Low lights, soothing music and candles don’t help. These conversations about draped/undraped, male vs female therapist and what if I get an erection don’t help. And most important the prostitution arrest of a massage therapist at the very high end hair spa around the corner doesn’t help. I am almost embarrassed to tell my friends I get regular massage.
You can find a reputable therapist at www.amtamassage.org
It's the web site of the American Massage Therapy Association, and its members must be licensed and must subscribe to their Code of Ethics.

“Live Laugh Love”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#18 Feb 4, 2010
Smoothassilk wrote:
When we were born, the good Lord did not drape us. Rather, it's the whacked, prudish scocietal norms that have developed over time here in the U.S. There are still many of us who prefer to be in that natural state as God intended. It helps us relax. Is that not the purpose of a massage? Just because someone is naked, it does not imply sex. Return to the Lord, rejoice and be natural.
Maybe it's not the so-called prudish societal norms that are the issue. If men in general would stop equating nudity with sexual intent, it would help a lot. In fact, men could also quit equating any and all touch with sex as well.

Yes, massage is relaxing, but the true purpose is to loosen tight muscles that constrict movement and cause pain, discomfort and skeletal distortion.

God brings us into this world unclothed, but it is through sin that we know we need to be covered. When men in general stop treating everything with sexuality, we will truly be an enlightened society.

Not all men fall into this category, but the vast majority do and create problems for the rest, not exclusively MTs.
Roger

Birmingham, AL

#19 Mar 4, 2010
Paul wrote:
<quoted text>
I think there are two reasons for that -- for some men, undraped massage is partially or completely linked to sexual contact. I consider myself in the "partially linked" camp. An undraped massage is still preferable for me, with or without sexual contact.
The second reason is that, in general, men are much more comfortable with their bodies than women. Because, for the most part, we're not judged on our bodies the way women are.
Paul,
I would like to know where in Birmingham you have gotten an undraped massage. The idea intrigues me. I have only ever gotten draped massage. I am from Birmingham also.
Hans

Baton Rouge, LA

#20 Mar 8, 2010
I went to a "therapist" I found listed on craigslist who advertised "Draping Optional." She worked out of her home. I was not interested in any sort of sexual activity--and I indicated that when I went in. She behaved very professionally--and didn't mind when the towel fell off my "parts." She worked the pubic area--not touching my penis or scrotum--to improve blood flow to my prostate. I had indicated prostate issues on the questionnaire when I entered. Yes, I became very aroused but she didn't seem to mind--nor did she move beyond our agreed decorum. On a subsequent visit, she hesitated on the pubic massage saying that I should find a "tantric goddess" to accommodate such touch. I quit going to her since I thought she might be getting the wrong idea about my interest. Later, I found a new ad on craigslist...under a new name, she was advertising "Erotic Massage" from a Tantric Goddess. Same person. Same location. Different personal and service. What's up with that, huh?
Paul

Birmingham, AL

#21 Mar 10, 2010
Fullermassage wrote:
<quoted text>
God brings us into this world unclothed, but it is through sin that we know we need to be covered. When men in general stop treating everything with sexuality, we will truly be an enlightened society.
Not all men fall into this category, but the vast majority do and create problems for the rest, not exclusively MTs.
First of all, not all of us believe in the "nudity is sinful" camp.

Secondly, very few men treat "everything with sexuality." I don't sexualize my visits to the doctor's office, or to an auto mechanic, or to the grocery store -- even if the staffers there happen to be attractive women!

But massage is different, and the fact that these issues keep "coming up" (pardon the pun) proves that.

Massage can be completely therapeutic, of course. But it's a modality that encourages relaxation, and is a very intimate form of touch. For many of us, it's the most personal touch we receive from another person, outside of a romantic relationship.

So I don't think it's "wrong" or "perverted" to associate sensuality with a massage. It is completely wrong to expect sensual services from a therapist who has no interest in providing those services.

But if therapist and client agree, what is the harm?

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