Under fire: Doctors slam `bogus' therapy

Under fire: Doctors slam `bogus' therapy

There are 269 comments on the AdelaideNow... story from Apr 18, 2010, titled Under fire: Doctors slam `bogus' therapy. In it, AdelaideNow... reports that:

DOCTORS have called for an end to taxpayer-funded subsidies for homeopathy as there is "no evidence that works at all". Homeopathy is based on the belief "like cures like" and dilution can strengthen a therapeutic material's effects, even if a product is diluted to where no measurable amount remains.

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Since: Sep 07

La Quinta, CA

#162 Jul 30, 2010
Iqbal wrote:
<quoted text>
The names that I will provide would be of people you may never get to know.
Oh, I see. Homeopathy cures herpes but only if it's a stranger.

Nice try.

Face it, you are doing EXACTLY what every homeopath does - LYING.

You are making false claims which can not be backed up by evidence. Hell, you can't even back them up with a THEORETICAL MECHANISM which _MIGHT_ achieve your claim.

Face it, you've been owned since the start of the thread when I PROVED that homeopathy was nothing but tap water.
Iqbal

Delhi, India

#163 Jul 31, 2010
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, I see. Homeopathy cures herpes but only if it's a stranger.
Nice try.
Face it, you are doing EXACTLY what every homeopath does - LYING.
You are making false claims which can not be backed up by evidence. Hell, you can't even back them up with a THEORETICAL MECHANISM which _MIGHT_ achieve your claim.
Face it, you've been owned since the start of the thread when I PROVED that homeopathy was nothing but tap water.
I find you are a screen writer. I can accept your shortcomings in understanding minute details of medicine and science, but you should have a good control over language.

Is this what you understood from my message?

Please read my message again and then you can move forward to experience homeopathy. I hope you are on this forum to understand the subject- not for the purpose of argument.
Iqbal

New Delhi, India

#165 Jul 31, 2010
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying homeopaths don't have to abide by doctor/client privacy legislation? Can homeopaths give you the names & addresses of their patients they have treated? Just another reason to not visit a homeopath.
You need not take everything at face value. Mr. Nuggin chose herpes from the list with a purpose. Let him meet the homeopath doctor and then you will hear a new message.

Since: Sep 07

La Quinta, CA

#166 Jul 31, 2010
Iqbal wrote:
<quoted text>
I find you are a screen writer. I can accept your shortcomings in understanding minute details of medicine and science,
"Shortcomings"? Listen Sanjay, I am the ONLY one in this discussion who's talking science.

So far you've made unfounded claims, given excuses for why you can't provide evidence and failed to refute even the most simple mathematics of dilution.

You are, in short, claiming that homeopathy is magic and that the practitioners are wizards. That is is impossible for chemists, doctors or anyone else to qualify or quantify the powers of these wizards because they are using mechanisms which simply don't exist in the material world.

They may float in a country that things that cows are magical deities, but guess what - here in the real world, we require proof.

Been asking you for it for a month. STILL no proof.

Face it, I've exposed your little scam.

Since: Sep 07

La Quinta, CA

#167 Jul 31, 2010
Iqbal wrote:
<quoted text>
You need not take everything at face value. Mr. Nuggin chose herpes from the list with a purpose. Let him meet the homeopath doctor and then you will hear a new message.
Sorry, that's not how it works.

You don't get to lie: "Homeopathy cures herpes" and then expect ME to ask a homeopath if this is true.

Because I can tell you EXACTLY what the next two steps are:

Either
A) I meet a homeopath and ask and they say - "No". At which point you tell me it was the "wrong" homeopath" and I should go find a different one.
or
B) They say "yes" and I say "Okay, let's see the evidence". At which point they do what you did: "Oh, the evidence is a secret."

Uh huh.

Face it. You lied. You got caught.

Just admit it or the entire rest of this thread is going to consist of me asking you to admit your lie and apologize.
Iqbal

Delhi, India

#168 Jul 31, 2010
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
"Shortcomings"? Listen Sanjay, I am the ONLY one in this discussion who's talking science.
So far you've made unfounded claims, given excuses for why you can't provide evidence and failed to refute even the most simple mathematics of dilution.
You are, in short, claiming that homeopathy is magic and that the practitioners are wizards. That is is impossible for chemists, doctors or anyone else to qualify or quantify the powers of these wizards because they are using mechanisms which simply don't exist in the material world.
They may float in a country that things that cows are magical deities, but guess what - here in the real world, we require proof.
Been asking you for it for a month. STILL no proof.
Face it, I've exposed your little scam.
Who is Sanjay?

What better way to understand cure through homeopathy than to meet a patient who has had the ailment and is cured? If I give you two names who have had herpes and were cured by homeopathic medicine in New Delhi, what is the next step? Is it not better to see one in your area?

Homeopathy is practiced in the USA, UK, Japan, Germany, France and among many developed countries and many patients are shifting to this system.

I think you are on the forum for the sake of argument only. What has cow worship to do with your science? Let us not waste time.

Bye

Since: Sep 07

La Quinta, CA

#169 Jul 31, 2010
Iqbal wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is Sanjay?
What better way to understand cure through homeopathy than to meet a patient who has had the ailment and is cured? If I give you two names who have had herpes and were cured by homeopathic medicine in New Delhi, what is the next step? Is it not better to see one in your area?
Homeopathy is practiced in the USA, UK, Japan, Germany, France and among many developed countries and many patients are shifting to this system.
I think you are on the forum for the sake of argument only. What has cow worship to do with your science? Let us not waste time.
Bye
If you could come up with two names of people who were MIRACULOUSLY cured by homeopathy they would be the FIRST TWO PEOPLE in HISTORY to have been cured of herpes. I would have to assume that someone somewhere would want to do a scientific paper on this amazing event.

Or is it just "a friend of a friend" that got cured?
Mark

Giralang, Australia

#170 Jul 31, 2010
Iqbal wrote:
<quoted text>
What better way to understand cure through homeopathy than to meet a patient who has had the ailment and is cured? If I give you two names who have had herpes and were cured by homeopathic medicine in New Delhi, what is the next step? Is it not better to see one in your area?
As herpes is a disease that can lay dormant for years, have these supposedly cured people had a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) to test for presence of viral DNA or are we to take the word of the homeopath?
Rita

The Pas, Canada

#171 Aug 1, 2010
The current medical regime has not brought an end to death.It has not cured the common cold,it has not brought forth a cure for addictions, people suffer from auto immune diseases with only some reduction in physical pain, the side effects of our medicine is likely causing as many problems as it is curing. You have to sign waivers because many of the things that it does may, and do, result in death.

Surgery is possibly medicines best achievement in terms of resolving some problems. Even that doesn't always work. Sometimes the wrong leg, or breast, is removed.

The current medical system has many, many problems of its own to rectify and account for. I don't use homeopathy but I do think it is a stretch for this one to cast any stones. Many countries have used 'other' forms of medicine and done so with a great deal of success. Perhaps all of them have something to learn from one another. Maybe if they weren't so insecure they would spend less time looking at others and more at improving their own!

Crikey, most doctors know almost nothing about the drugs they prescribe at this point! How could they - there are so many. They have time to point at the homeopaths, ha, ha.

Who is tracking the results of these drugs - who reports it when a patient says that they had difficulty with a drug - almost no one, it is just switched to another etc.

Since: Sep 07

La Quinta, CA

#172 Aug 1, 2010
Rita wrote:
The current medical regime has not brought an end to death.
You've already lost the debate by starting with the "crazy" set on 11.
It has not cured the common cold
The "common cold" is actually a collection of symptoms brought about by literally hundreds of different viruses. There's nothing "common" about it.
,it has not brought forth a cure for addictions
Actually there is now a cocaine vaccine which completely removes the positive effects of cocaine use, rendering the addiction impotent.
people suffer from auto immune diseases with only some reduction in physical pain, the side effects of our medicine is likely causing as many problems as it is curing.
Then don't take any medicine. Let's see how long you last.
You have to sign waivers because many of the things that it does may, and do, result in death.
EVERYTHING EVERYONE DOES ultimately results in DEATH 100% of the time.
Surgery is possibly medicines best achievement in terms of resolving some problems. Even that doesn't always work. Sometimes the wrong leg, or breast, is removed.
Alright, you've just proven that you are absolutely worthless in this discussion.

You want LITERALLY 100% error proof people who have conquered death. Sorry, you are living in a fantasy world.

Let me guess, you think "prayer" is the answer.
Many countries have used 'other' forms of medicine and done so with a great deal of success.
Evidence? Oh right, none. Just you CLAIMING that this is true.

India uses homeopathy. People in India have diseases which we've vanquished in the 1st world a century ago.

Meet many lepers on your way to work? No? You don't get to thank homeopathy for that.
Crikey, most doctors know almost nothing about the drugs they prescribe at this point! How could they - there are so many.
Personally I find it offensive that you assume that doctors are both as stupid and as lazy as yourself.

Just because YOU don't care to learn anything about the medicines available doesn't mean doctors don't.

Guess what, doctors didn't settle for a job as a WalMart cashier like you did.
Rita

Elm Creek, Canada

#173 Aug 1, 2010
It would not be someone from the midstream medicine that would take the time to do so. There are few doctors who would suggest such a study if they came across such cases. They would immediately brush it off as a highly unusual, but not unheard of, spontaneous remission or assert that a mistake in the diagnosis had been made. They don't come to the table with an open mind about what they oft see as only quackery.

There is a doctor, Andrew Weil who discusses these things quite well and is quite respected. He has written many books and they are quite easy to find.

If you are going to compare other branches of medicine against our standard fare you can't start with ours being the "best" one and able to gauge the others anymore than you can expect a homeopath to be able to judge a modern physician. Creating a fair process would be a challenge on its own either way.
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
If you could come up with two names of people who were MIRACULOUSLY cured by homeopathy they would be the FIRST TWO PEOPLE in HISTORY to have been cured of herpes. I would have to assume that someone somewhere would want to do a scientific paper on this amazing event.
Or is it just "a friend of a friend" that got cured?
Rita

Elm Creek, Canada

#174 Aug 1, 2010
Nuggin

- not trying to engage in a competition just a discussion so winning or loosing is your objective not mine.
-so, does medicine only look to find cures for complex, not common,symptoms - when you are sick you are sick.
-I was speaking in a broader sense than only cocaine addiction and I am also aware of earlier use of antabuse used to "cure" alcoholism.So we have a cure for cocaine addiction and I am certainly looking forward to its widespread application. Does it work for meth and heroin. Oddly we have methadone for those addictions but all of the side effects etc...
- people frequently determine that a drug is more of a problem than a cure and determine to live with pain or disease instead of taking it. That is absolutely no secret to doctors and pharmacists.
-no, I don't insist on error proof people. I don't like a group of people projecting an image of being people who are never in error or people who believe that only they can manage our health taking into account that they are fallible ( as we all are). You certainly take liberties with things I supply.
It seems that when they look at the places where people consistently live to be the ripest of old ages and are gardening and climbing etc for the longest periods of time it is not in North America and it is frequently in places like Nepal, Tibet parts of Japan and China etc. How do they manage without our system.
I am not a doctor but a nurse. You are a nasty person. You like to believe that you are intelligent and can debate but your mission is one of arrogance.
There are many fine doctors and many reasons to celebrate our fortunes but that does not mean we have to be a one pony show.
You can waste your time on a response but I won't waste my time thinking about you have to say by reading it. What made you become so personal, a mental illness, see a doctor!
Mark

Giralang, Australia

#175 Aug 1, 2010
Rita wrote:
It seems that when they look at the places where people consistently live to be the ripest of old ages and are gardening and climbing etc for the longest periods of time it is not in North America and it is frequently in places like Nepal, Tibet parts of Japan and China etc. How do they manage without our system.
The average life expectancy in:

Japan 83 (BTW Japan uses modern pharamceuticals)
Australia 81
USA 78
China 73
Nepal 67
Tibet 67

It is interesting to note that 50 years ago when Tibet was totally reliant on traditional medicine the average life expectancy was 35.5 years ( http://au.china-embassy.org/eng/zt/zgxz/t4603... )

One of the major failings of mainstream medicine is the failure to teach nurses critical thinking skills. There are too many nurses who believe in all sorts of BS & come out with the most stupid nonsense.

Since: Sep 07

La Quinta, CA

#176 Aug 1, 2010
Rita wrote:
It would not be someone from the midstream medicine that would take the time to do so. There are few doctors who would suggest such a study if they came across such cases. They would immediately brush it off as a highly unusual, but not unheard of, spontaneous remission or assert that a mistake in the diagnosis had been made. They don't come to the table with an open mind about what they oft see as only quackery.
You are ABSOLUTELY INSANE.

You clearly don't have the first idea how the medical practice or pharm industry works at all.

Even the whiff of believability for a CURE for herpes and docs and companies would be ALL OVER IT.

Instant Nobel Prize. Instant Stock Jump. Instant cornering the market on one of the biggest plagues of the 20th/21th centuries.
If you are going to compare other branches of medicine against our standard fare you can't start with ours being the "best" one and able to gauge the others anymore than you can expect a homeopath to be able to judge a modern physician. Creating a fair process would be a challenge on its own either way.
<quoted text>
Replace the word "homeopathy" with "voodoo exhorcisms" and explain why the sentence still makes sense? Can you?

A person complains that they have stomach pain in the lower right side (their appendix is ready to burst).

You take them to a voodoo practitioner who slaughter a chicken and gives them a necklace containing two kernals of corn and a shiny rock.

Should we NOT compare THIS cure to the ACTUAL solution?

Isn't it "unfair" to judge it against modern standards?

Listen, homeopathy is MAGIC. More specifically it's sympathetic magic.

It works under the EXACT SAME PRINCIPLES that are making rhinos extinct. "Like effects like".

For the Chinese that means, if you hold a Rhino horn, your penis will be bigger.

If you reject that notion, you really have no leg to stand on when dealing with homeopathy.

Since: Sep 07

La Quinta, CA

#177 Aug 1, 2010
Rita wrote:
-so, does medicine only look to find cures for complex, not common,symptoms - when you are sick you are sick.
You are misunderstanding the difference between cause and effect.

The EFFECT of a "common cold" can be CAUSED by literally hundreds of different viruses.

This is like saying you are going to "cure" all car accidents by a tire on ONE car.
- people frequently determine that a drug is more of a problem than a cure and determine to live with pain or disease instead of taking it. That is absolutely no secret to doctors and pharmacists.
Would you rather have a bladder infection or penicilin?
It seems that when they look at the places where people consistently live to be the ripest of old ages and are gardening and climbing etc for the longest periods of time it is not in North America and it is frequently in places like Nepal, Tibet parts of Japan and China etc. How do they manage without our system.
This is an error on your perspective.

It is true that America has a lower life expectancy than healthier living countries which ALSO have modern medicine. This is largely due to the fact that the average American in the midwest is fatter by 2-3x than the average person ANYWHERE ELSE on the PLANET.
I am not a doctor but a nurse. You are a nasty person.
Let me guess. You are a nurse who does "healing touch" therapy. If not? Why not?
You can waste your time on a response but I won't waste my time thinking about you have to say by reading it.
Ha ha! Perfect.

I love it when idiots come on the thread, get their asses OWNED by one of us that actually knows what we're talking about. They always respond the SAME way. "You're mean. I'm leaving"

Yes, I'm MEAN. I'm mean because nice just doesn't cut it when dealing with MORONS.

You are WRONG. You need to be TOLD you are WRONG so that you stop convincing other people to also be WRONG.

It's really that simple.
Iqbal

Delhi, India

#178 Aug 2, 2010
Rita wrote:
Nuggin
- not trying to engage in a competition just a discussion so winning or loosing is your objective not mine.

You can waste your time on a response but I won't waste my time thinking about you have to say by reading it. What made you become so personal, a mental illness, see a doctor!
We have a saying in Hindi" Bhaise ke aage been bajai, bhaise khari pagurai"

: Literal translation in English means:

To play flute in front of a buffalo does nothing, the buffalo would just continue to chew on the cud in its mouth"

This will be your position with Mr. Nuggin.



C Redd

Budd Lake, NJ

#179 Aug 2, 2010
Iqbal wrote:
<quoted text>
We have a saying in Hindi" Bhaise ke aage been bajai, bhaise khari pagurai"
: Literal translation in English means:
To play flute in front of a buffalo does nothing, the buffalo would just continue to chew on the cud in its mouth"
This will be your position with Mr. Nuggin.
Love it! Thanks for posting this saying. It hits the nail on the head -- chewing the same cud over and over and over!
Iqbal

New Delhi, India

#180 Aug 2, 2010
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
As herpes is a disease that can lay dormant for years, have these supposedly cured people had a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) to test for presence of viral DNA or are we to take the word of the homeopath?
If at any time you are tested for virus and bacteria, how many positives will be there?
Rita

Brandon, Canada

#181 Aug 2, 2010
I loved your saying.

I did say that I would not reply to any further posts that he provided. Once someone starts to call you insane, attribute comments or opinions to you that are a machination of their own mind etc. it is best to move on.

It is always wonderful though when someone else recognizes a potentially 'bad' space that another has lapsed into and offers support.

Thank you.
Iqbal wrote:
<quoted text>
We have a saying in Hindi" Bhaise ke aage been bajai, bhaise khari pagurai"
: Literal translation in English means:
To play flute in front of a buffalo does nothing, the buffalo would just continue to chew on the cud in its mouth"
This will be your position with Mr. Nuggin.

Since: Sep 07

La Quinta, CA

#182 Aug 3, 2010
Rita wrote:
Once someone starts to call you insane, attribute comments or opinions to you that are a machination of their own mind
Yawn.

Rita, your posts are STILL available for all to read.

Denying what you wrote isn't just dishonest it's foolish.

You clearly have a very skewed idea of how the world works. Your demands on the medical profession are well outside the range of normal stupidity and clearly inside the range of insanity.

Complaining that modern medicine has failed because it has not made all of us immortal is simply childish.

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