Wiki Attack on Chiropractic

Wiki Attack on Chiropractic

Posted in the Chiropractic Forum

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NMSDR

South Porcupine, Canada

#1 Jan 18, 2008
This thread was censored (deleted) so I am reposting it.

Mr. Paul Lee, aka Fyslee is an anti-chiropractic PT who has somehow managed to become an editor and gatekeeper of the Chiropractic Wiki.

Along with Allen Botnick and other choice individuals at Chirotalk, they are planning an orchestrated attack on the Wiki to damage the cultural legitmacy of contemporary chiropractic practices. As well, they are working to actively suppress the flow of research which validates chiropractic's approach to health care.
jim

AOL

#2 Jan 18, 2008
Do you ever do anything but whine and cry about being persecuted? These people are trying to prevent strokes. Real strokes. Not fake lesions. If you thought about it for a while I am sure you would shut the hell up.
NMSDR

South Porcupine, Canada

#3 Jan 18, 2008
Actually, I'm just giving you clowns a dose of your own medicine. Furthermore, since you feel so inclined to talk about chiropracTIC and the 80's I'm obliged to present the Contemporary Chiropractic in 2008.

If you were seriously concerned about SMT and vertebral dissection you would research the topic (you don't know how to conduct a scholarly research) and you would evaluate the evidence (again, you have to clue about EBM and how to use it clinically) and you would see that the literature heavily leans that cervical SMT is both safe and effective.

In a major review of cervical spine SMT done in a medical journal involving over 19K patients and 50K treatments, not one stroke occurred. I'm all for informed consent and making sure the patients know the risks and benefits of treatment, but you're simply interested in fear mongering and libeling DCs and the Chiropractic Profession.
jim

AOL

#4 Jan 19, 2008
ER doctors speak out about chiropractic strokes all the time. That's a fact. Every time you get hit in the face with a pie you scream RESEARCH. Research isn't going to save your sorry ass.
NMSDR

South Porcupine, Canada

#5 Jan 19, 2008
jim wrote:
ER doctors speak out about chiropractic strokes all the time. That's a fact. Every time you get hit in the face with a pie you scream RESEARCH. Research isn't going to save your sorry ass.
How very ironic you suggest I'm too research based (which is what evidence-based practice is all about) and yet you come back with your anecdotal claims which are so summarily dismissed by yourself and your Chirotalk cronies. Talk about a double standard.

Anyways, since you are incompetent in all things relating to research here is an executive summary in the February 2008 Spine Journal:

http://www.spinejournal.com/pt/re/spine/fullt... !2092430889!181195628!8091!-1? index=1&database=ppvovft &nav=reference

Of particular note has to do with the stroke issue:

There was an association between chiropractic services and subsequent vertebrobasilar artery stroke in persons under 45 years of age, but a similar association was also observed among patients receiving general practitioner services. This is likely explained by patients with vertebrobasilar artery dissection-related neck pain or headache seeking care before having their stroke.

There you have it. Do you understand what that means, Jim? Since you've already proven to us that your intellectual acumen is well below average, it means DCs aren't necessarily CAUSING strokes, but that they are ALREADY IN PROGRESS and the association of strokes is THE SAME whether you visit a DC or MD for neck pain.

Check mate. Thanks for coming out, make sure to tell your Chirotalk cronies about the study; if they have any ethics, sincerity and competence at intepreting research they will see that the facts.
jim

AOL

#6 Jan 19, 2008
I have just a little news for you. Everybody who has a stroke see's an MD or dies trying. People walk into chiropractic offices on their on two feet. If one person in a chiropractic office thought he was having a stroke he wouldn't be there. If the stroke rates are anywhere near the same for both groups in people under 45 then chiropractic is Mass Murder. Double Check Mate you Moron.

Since: Jul 07

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

#7 Jan 19, 2008
Seems you were correct, NMSDR ... Jim wasn't able to grasp what it said, even when you spelled it out clearly for him.

Of course none of us here who has seen jim post for more than a couple minutes is surprised at all by that "revelation".
jim

AOL

#8 Jan 19, 2008
My neck hurts, I have a headache, I can't move the left side of my body. Quick get me to the chiropractor!!
jim

AOL

#9 Jan 19, 2008
If you go see a chiropractor for dissected artey pain he is going to twist the living crap out of it. An MD would never do that because he knows that could possibly kill or paralyze you.
Chiro Student

Davenport, IA

#10 Jan 21, 2008
Jim, the study looked at people who go see an MD for headaches. What the data said is if you see an MD for headaches or a Chiropractor for headaches your odds of stroke are essentially equal. This suggests that the CVA is already in progress and not necessarily caused by the treatment prescribed by either the DC or the MD. Seeing an MD for a stroke that is symptomatic beyond a headache is completely different. And you suggested an MD would never "twist the living crap out of it" with regard to dissected artery pain. However, MD's misdiagnose and misprescribe pharmaceuticals on an almost constant basis which accounts for FAR MORE deaths annually than stroke victims who are either seeing a chiropractor or not. And what do you have to say about persons who have a stroke and have never been to a chiropractor but see an MD annually?
jim

AOL

#11 Jan 21, 2008
The real point I quess is there are a lot of varibles that were not even thought of by these "researchers". The reason is this is not real research. This is propaganda. If you are a chiro student in time you will have seen a bunch of this type of stuff. But, you will probably over look it because they know what needs drive you and they know how to make money from them. But in the back of your mind you will always know it is a Big Lie. People prone to strokes are not the only people they are willing to harm. They are willing to harm you too.
Chiro Student

Davenport, IA

#12 Jan 21, 2008
Well since you insist on putting the word researchers in quotation marks and implying that this is not real research I will list the researchers, their credentials, and where they hail from.

Haldeman, Scott DC, MD, PhD*; Carroll, Linda PhD†; Cassidy, J David DC, PhD, DrMedSc‡; Schubert, Jon CMA§; Nygren,Åke DDS, MD, DrMedSc¶

From the *Department of Neurology, University of California, Irvine, CA; Department of Epidemiology, School of Public Health, University of California, Los Angeles, CA; †Department of Public Health Sciences, and Alberta Center for Injury Control and Research, School of Public Health, University of Alberta, Canada; ‡Department of Public Health Sciences, Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto an Division of Health Outcomes and Research, Toronto Western Research Institute, University Health Network, Toronto, Canada; §CEO-SGI, Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada; ¶Department of Clinical Sciences, Danderyd Hospital, Division of Rehabilitation Medicine, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, Sweden.

I wonder, what are your credentials? What education, experience, and background do you have that qualifies you to challenge the conclusions of this project. Most educated people that I encounter refrain from name calling and argumentative behavior. Most actually evaluate information and try to do what is best for people in general. I wonder what motivates you. Do you just like to argue and name-call? How many lives do you think you will impact with that mentality. Please don't bother to respond with insults or rude accusations as this is the last you will hear from me. I make it a point not to argue with the uneducated in public. Onlookers can never tell which is the fool. Instead I will back out now and leave no doubt.
NMSDR

South Porcupine, Canada

#13 Jan 21, 2008
Jim,

You've been owned yet again. I notice that Chirotalk isn't talking very much about this study. Because, in reality, there really is no discussion there but one sided ravings of Life dropouts.'

I'm going to make sure Bill Kinsinger, MD and Terry Polevoy, MD, two anti-chiropractic activists who shamelessly exploit stroke patients in their crusade against Chiropratic.

http://www.neck911usa.com/index.htm

Something tells me this site won't touch the the new data on the incidence of strokes in patients who see MDs or DCs. And that is simply intellectual dishonesty and terrible ethics on their part.
jim

AOL

#14 Jan 21, 2008
Your not going to deal with the uneducated public? HAHAHA Boy, the uneducated public staying uneducated is the only hope you got. Shamelessly exploiting stroke patients? After chiropractors gave them strokes? What are you going to do when they are laying there half dead? Tell them to look at this list of names your fellow cult member gave you! It's just all a coincidence. People have strokes at real doctors offices also? You know that list of names looks real official. Just like your white coat and doctors bag. Putting on sham appearances is the name of the game. It allows you to play doctor for awhile.They can afford to make sure every detail looks just right when every student is paying 100,000 plus.You are a "SUCKER". An ignorant dangerous "SUCKER".
jim

AOL

#15 Jan 21, 2008
You are a back knuckle popper. You can extend small back joints past their usual range of motion. POP A cheap parlor trick that you will pay dearly for. 100,000 plus a head. Then the realization that other people just don't buy this crap. That will include your friends and family. You will be a broke failure demanding to be called "Doctor". A pathetic debtor with know way out. You will pay your last dime to go to the seminar that tells you how not to be a loser like other "lesser chiropractors". The schools that are privately owned will be cashing your checks. When people look at you they will imagine "SUCKER" printed across your forehead.

BDC

“Want Truth?”

Since: Dec 07

South Carolina

#16 Jan 21, 2008
Blah, blah, blah, jim look at the true statistics instead of looking at chiropractic for the cause.

Again, how many strokes are there per day? What percentage of people see a chiropractor? How many people drink alcohol, smoke and etc?
Just by statistics alone there is bound to be 1 in a million chance of having a stroke with the patient only going to the office. See the truth for once jim.

Even you must admit the truth about the statistics!

Remember

BDC

“Want Truth?”

Since: Dec 07

South Carolina

#17 Jan 21, 2008
Blame diet pills they cause more deaths and they are sold at the gas station!

I see your priorities are totaly against chiropractic.

Chiropractor's goal= help people!
jims goal= keep people away from chiropractic!

I wonder which makes more sense?
Dr E

Memphis, TN

#18 Jan 21, 2008
jim wrote:
You are a back knuckle popper. You can extend small back joints past their usual range of motion. POP A cheap parlor trick that you will pay dearly for. 100,000 plus a head. Then the realization that other people just don't buy this crap. That will include your friends and family. You will be a broke failure demanding to be called "Doctor". A pathetic debtor with know way out. You will pay your last dime to go to the seminar that tells you how not to be a loser like other "lesser chiropractors". The schools that are privately owned will be cashing your checks. When people look at you they will imagine "SUCKER" printed across your forehead.
AAUUHHH poor little jimmie...please stop including the rest of us in your sad pathetic BIOGRAPHY...HAHAAA
jim

AOL

#19 Jan 21, 2008
Didn't Ontario stop paying for chiropractic period? What's the statistics on that? "One"?
jim

AOL

#20 Jan 21, 2008
Look, I have been around a lot of adjustments before. I never saw anybody get a stroke. But I have seen people get very ill. If somebody got sick and threw up from an adjustment they were bombarded with the craziest cult crap you could imagine. I just saw it as tramatizing someones spinal column until damage was done, then explaining it in a way where they would pay even more money. I thought it was the most Stupid Dishonest thing I had ever remotely been a part of.

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