Disc herniations with spinal stenosis...

Disc herniations with spinal stenosis - can chiropractic treatment help?

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RHF

Chicago, IL

#1 May 18, 2008
Hello.
I have a c4/5 herniation with spinal stenosis and neuroforaminal narrowing and a c5/6 herniation with neuroforaminal narrowing.
I have seen 3 neurosurgeons who stated surgery was the only option to fix the problem. My chiropractor stated surgery was not necessary, but another chiropractor friend stated the disc will not go back on it's own - always leaving the spinal cord compressed.
Here's my question - if I stay with the chiropractic care - what level of healing can I achieve? Will my spinal cord ever become decompressed?
Thanks

Since: Jul 07

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

#2 May 19, 2008
It really depends. It depends on how bad the injury has gotten and whether your body will be able to recover from it even if you remove the source, it depends on how good your chiropractor is at removing the source of the strain causing your disc damage, and it depends on many other specifics of your case.

I would say that you should try every other option available to you before attempting the back surgery, as surgery should always be a last resort, and does not have the best track record for success.

I HAVE seen disc injuries recover under conservative (i.e. chiropractic) care, so there is hope for you.

BDC

“Want Truth?”

Since: Dec 07

South Carolina

#3 May 19, 2008
RHF wrote:
Hello.
I have a c4/5 herniation with spinal stenosis and neuroforaminal narrowing and a c5/6 herniation with neuroforaminal narrowing.
Thanks
I have seen improvements on patients after light cervical adjustments to take out any excess pressure on the area and with the use of cervical traction.
(My experience) Most pts see 60% improvement in pain within first two weeks.

About 60% go symptom free after complete plan of care,~2-3months. 20% do not get better and require surgery(normally refered out around 1-3 weeks), the last 20% get some relief of pain(~30% of original pain).

I hope that helps. I see several patients that had surgery and still have constant pain. I also see some patients that have little to no pain after surgery.

It depends on your severity, location, and surgeon.

Good Luck,

BDC
RHF

Chicago, IL

#4 May 19, 2008
Thanks. All the muscular pain in the shoulder and upper back are pretty much gone. I do have a constant sore neck and pain when attempting to run, or really do any activity. If there is a way for the herniation to heal and spinal compression to alleviate without surgery than I would rather do that than surgery. am a professional boxer and would like to resume those activities sometime in the future.
nwtk2007

Fort Worth, TX

#5 May 19, 2008
I seriously doubt that your neck's condition will be compatable with your profession. I also doubt that there are many doctors who would believe that they could realistically treat your condition as long as you box.

I would say that for the sake of your neck and your future of being with or without pain, you should find something else to do and then you can have at least a chance of getting your neck back to near normal without surgery.

Sorry.
DrCzulada

Highland, MI

#6 Aug 20, 2008
I can't give you professional advice on this forum, but I can point you to a scientific study in a medical journal regarding Chiropractic treatment of spinal stenosis, the results were positive with many getting good relief with Chiropractic. It is the first study of a list of 70.
http://www.ourchiropractic.com/
Limpingmom

AOL

#7 Aug 20, 2008
Does anyone know how long before I see relief from the chiropractor? In pain for about a week now, can't walk or stand much, dr. thinks its a facet joint syndrome.facet pressing on a nerve in the lumbar region. How much time should I give this chiropractor? On 3rd treatment.
BDC

Spartanburg, SC

#8 Aug 21, 2008
Limpingmom wrote:
Does anyone know how long before I see relief from the chiropractor? In pain for about a week now, can't walk or stand much, dr. thinks its a facet joint syndrome.facet pressing on a nerve in the lumbar region. How much time should I give this chiropractor? On 3rd treatment.
It depends on the treatment. Most see some improvement by 5 vists.
Wisdom

Brooklyn, NY

#9 Aug 21, 2008
Use your heads people. Spinal stenosis is defined as a narrowing of the spinal canal (bony structures). Chiropractors can no more change the diameter of the spinal canal any more than they can change water to wine.

Get real.

Stop the chirporactic BS now.
nwtk2007

Dallas, TX

#10 Aug 21, 2008
Not totally true Wisdom. Spinal stenosis can be caused by bulging and herniated discs, not just boney structures and, in fact, more often than not, is related to exactly that.

And water to wine. Too easy. Grape juice is essentially water isn't it?(90 - 95%?)
Wisdom

Brooklyn, NY

#11 Aug 21, 2008
The overwhelming majority of cases of spinal stenosis is caused by degenerative osteoarthritis and a thickening of the ligamentous structures.
Probably 90 - 95% of cases.

Narrowing of the canal can be caused by tumors, herniated discs, Pagets etc etc.

A chiropractors should not be the first person you see to either diagnose or treat this problem. Again, chiropractors can no more effect spinal stenosis, save for some palliative relief, than they can change water to wine.

Chiropractic logic..."well, grape juice really is mostly water". Wow, no wonder you bought into all the chiropractic BS.
nwtk2007

Dallas, TX

#12 Aug 21, 2008
You are so full of it Wisdom.

If, as the anit-MRI crowd is so fond of saying, that 70% of the population are walking around with HNP or bulging discs, then 70% of the population has stenosis to some degree.

You are referring to degenerative stenosis and refers to individuals over the age of 60 typically.

Try to get specific and stop citing made up stats or stats grabbed from a quick google search or wikipedia with out actually reading the material thoroughly.
Limpingmom

AOL

#13 Aug 21, 2008
Umm...I think i may have started something here. But what if the chiropractor puts you on this table that streches your spine...sort of like a traction machine (forgot the medical term). Theorectically if the spinal facets are stretched away from the compressed nerve, then wouldn't that relieve the pain?
nwtk2007

Irving, TX

#14 Aug 21, 2008
This is a tuff one but here is the deal. If you have spinal stenosis and back pain, how do you know if that is the cause of the pain?

Doctors see things on x-ray and MRI or CT and automatically assume that is the source of the pain. Surgery is performed and the pain often remains. Thus what was corrected by the surgery was not the source of the pain.

Ortho's have an arsenal of injections of various regions to determine the source of the pain. Technically they are called diagnostic injections.

Just having spinal stenosis does not mean that is the cause of your pain. Find an ortho who understands that and you might be on your way to a chance of finding out what the true source is and possibly getting rid of it.

If chiropractic treatment helps then I would guess that stenosis is not the source and the manipulations are correcting the true source.

Make sense?
Limpingmom

AOL

#15 Aug 21, 2008
Hmm...had no idea orthos got involved in back pain..especially if there were neurologic presentations...like pain running down legs, sciatic pain, numbness? I'm just afraid if I see a neurologist he'd advise me to have a spinal fusion or something. I've heard too many horror stories...repeat surgeries and failed surgeries.
nwtk2007

Irving, TX

#16 Aug 22, 2008
Yes ortho's do a lot of low back work.

And you are getting neurologists mixed up with neurosurgeons. Neurologists are a strange lot and tend to do a lot of testing and then give meds.

Most neurosurgeons do back and neck surgeries and rarely do injections. They usually refer those out but not always.

And so what if a neuro recommends surgery, it doesn't mean you have to have it. If surgery is recommended, ask him how he knows where the pain is coming from and how the surgery will correct it.
Wisdom

Brooklyn, NY

#17 Aug 22, 2008
The truly frightening thing is that one chiroquacker will treat your stenosis by limiting treament to torquing the side of your neck. I know, it sounds stupid, but thats what many will do.

Another quacker may stretch you. Which, by the way, is bogus treatment as stretching has never been shown to effect spinal stenosis. Another might mobilize your spine by cracking it. Some may just apply hot packs and give you stretching exercises.

Like a box of chocolates...you never know what you'll get when going to a chiropractor. Its not worth the risk.

See a neurologist first.

Occasionally, surgery is necessary. Certainly as a last resort. No surgery is "guaranteed". But many patients have been able to get relief from decompression surgery.
nwtk2007

Dallas, TX

#18 Aug 22, 2008
Go to a dozen MD's or PT's and you'll get the same variety of treatment suggestions.

By the way,"Some may just apply hot packs and give you stretching exercises.", this is just PT.

"Which, by the way, is bogus treatment as stretching has never been shown to effect spinal stenosis" - If the stenosis is caused by a disc herniation or bulge, then vertical axial directed stretching, aka-traction, will help.

Sorry Wisdom, but this is probably why you were not successful as a chiropractor
Wisdom

Brooklyn, NY

#19 Aug 23, 2008
The truly frightening thing is that one chiroquacker will treat your stenosis by limiting treament to torquing the side of your neck. I know, it sounds stupid, but thats what many will do.

And nwtk. You've already been discredited as just another quack. Indeed, you defend the factual statement above. Quack.

One thing's for sure....you have no idea who I am. Certainly not an "unsuccesful chiropractor".
But of course, you're contention that I was an "unsuccesful chiropractor" shops your inability to have a logical discussion. Another example of your inability to address the issue at hand.

You are dismissed.
nwtk2007

Irving, TX

#20 Aug 23, 2008
You're right. You might not have ever even been a chiro. You, like so many of your buddies, probably failed the boards and were never actually licensed.

YOU were DISMISSED by the chiropractic licensing boards a long time ago.

As to having a logical discussion, it doesn't start by name calling, lies and innuendo.

And I still don't know what you mean by "torquing" the side of the neck.

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