Needle work: Chiropractor first in state to be licensed in biomedical acupuncture - Lifestyle/Val...

Jun 15, 2010 Full story: Northern Virginia Daily 65

Cindy Denick's lower-back, hip and leg pain was so severe, she was "ready to try anything" to remedy it -- which is how she came to be lying face down on a table at HealthSource Chiropractic & Progressive Rehab with long needles poking out of her lower back and legs.

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Real acupuncturist

Brandy Camp, PA

#1 Jun 15, 2010
"Biomedical acupuncture" sounds like another way of saying the state is going to let non-acupuncturists in other professions do something they are not really trained or qualified to do. Maybe next massage therapists can start practicing chiropractic, or Reiki practitioners can offer physical therapy on the side.
Aerial View

AOL

#2 Jun 15, 2010
Real acupuncturist wrote:
"Biomedical acupuncture" sounds like another way of saying the state is going to let non-acupuncturists in other professions do something they are not really trained or qualified to do. Maybe next massage therapists can start practicing chiropractic, or Reiki practitioners can offer physical therapy on the side.
I don't agree with your reasoning. Medical doctors are licensed to even practice dentistry if they want! It's within their scope of practice. A dermatologist can legally perform heart surgery. Most, if not all, would never consider it unless they were properly trained and certified.
Chiropractic scope of practice varies from state to state where some can practice acupuncture. A lot of the early courses chiropractors take are exactly what acupuncture colleges teach as well such as anatomy, physiology, diagnosis, pathology, and so on. If a chiropractor takes the necessary post graduate training, then why shouldn't he/she be able to practice acupuncture without the acupuncturist title? Their educational base is the same.
It sounds like this is a territorial issue.
But I respect your opinion since you are a qualifed practitioner with a degree and license--unlike fake 'experts' like wisdom who has no professional degrees, no license to practice anything, and no clinical experience, meaning he's never treated a patient and would be locked up if he did.
Wisdom

Newark, NJ

#3 Jun 15, 2010
Then again, why would a "chiropractor" want to do acupuncture when they are taught that they can heal people by lightly tweaking only the top vertebrae?

The fact remains that, in this day and age, chiropractic students are taught what is commonly referred to as "upper cervical techniques. These "upper cervical chiropractors will treat every one of their patients .....did you get that?.... every one of their patients, no matter what their condition , by lightly pushing on only the top vertebrae.

Chiropractic remains the biggest scam in "heath care" today.

The chiropractic diaper must be cleaned out.

Scientific, governmental and medical authorities need to investigate the chiropractic enterprise. While a very few chiropractors limit their practices to people that might be helped by mild spinal manipulation, most engage in bizarre treatments which have no basis or evidence behind them.

there are NO best practices guidelines for chiropractors. it truly is a bizarre field.

Indeed, there are chiropractors today that claim they can heal "deep wounds", asthma, ADHD, MS, newborns not breathing (I kid you not), etc etc etc........

You'll never see a chiropractor denounce any of their quack colleagues no matter how bizarre their claims.

The public is slowly catching on. Many chiropractors have already left the field. moving on to legitimate endeavors.

"Chirotalk", the worlds foremost skeptical chiropractic website.
Aerial View

AOL

#4 Jun 15, 2010
Wisdom wrote:
Then again, why would a "chiropractor" want to do acupuncture when they are taught that they can heal people by lightly tweaking only the top vertebrae?
The fact remains that, in this day and age, chiropractic students are taught what is commonly referred to as "upper cervical techniques. These "upper cervical chiropractors will treat every one of their patients .....did you get that?.... every one of their patients, no matter what their condition , by lightly pushing on only the top vertebrae.
Chiropractic remains the biggest scam in "heath care" today.
The chiropractic diaper must be cleaned out.
Scientific, governmental and medical authorities need to investigate the chiropractic enterprise. While a very few chiropractors limit their practices to people that might be helped by mild spinal manipulation, most engage in bizarre treatments which have no basis or evidence behind them.
there are NO best practices guidelines for chiropractors. it truly is a bizarre field.
Indeed, there are chiropractors today that claim they can heal "deep wounds", asthma, ADHD, MS, newborns not breathing (I kid you not), etc etc etc........
You'll never see a chiropractor denounce any of their quack colleagues no matter how bizarre their claims.
The public is slowly catching on. Many chiropractors have already left the field. moving on to legitimate endeavors.
"Chirotalk", the worlds foremost skeptical chiropractic website.
HA HA HA! More lies and nonsense from the fake 'chiropractic expert' wisdom. Yes, please visit chirotalk "The website for losers." You'll feel so good you're not one of those dumb assses. Wisdom can hide out there since he's amongst other losers and liars. The dumb asses on chirotalk didn't have the brains to make it in practice--so they blame chiropractic. They simply sucked at practice and business. "Nope, not my fault--chiropractic, Sid, Life, and Franklin Pearce screwed me over." he he he.
Let's not forget that wisdom is no expert. Many have claimed to be chiropractic experts who weren't even chiropractors, but alas, they were exposed as fakes by a judge and tossed out of town on their ear.
http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/editorial/quack...
http://www.canlyme.com/quackwatch.html
Wisdom

Newark, NJ

#5 Jun 15, 2010
The fact remains that, in this day and age, chiropractic students are taught what is commonly referred to as "upper cervical techniques. These "upper cervical chiropractors will treat every one of their patients .....did you get that?.... every one of their patients, no matter what their condition , by lightly pushing on only the top vertebrae.

Indeed, it is currently taught at the world's largest chiropractic schools, plamer, life sherman etc etc..........

Chiropractic remains the biggest scam in "heath care" today.

The chiropractic diaper must be cleaned out.
Aerial View

AOL

#6 Jun 15, 2010
Wisdom wrote:
The fact remains that, in this day and age, chiropractic students are taught what is commonly referred to as "upper cervical techniques. These "upper cervical chiropractors will treat every one of their patients .....did you get that?.... every one of their patients, no matter what their condition , by lightly pushing on only the top vertebrae.
Indeed, it is currently taught at the world's largest chiropractic schools, plamer, life sherman etc etc..........
Chiropractic remains the biggest scam in "heath care" today.
The chiropractic diaper must be cleaned out.
"The fact remains...." HA HA HA HA! The only constant fact is that wisdom continually lies and deceives with each post. The self proclaimed and phoney chiropractic expert (with NO credentials even by his own admission " I attended a lot of chiropractic meetings") has been exposed for being a self-serving fraud. Uh, maybe like the fake in the following links who also fancied himself as a chiropractic expert but was shown the door and railed out of town by a US judge.
http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/editorial/quack...
http://www.canlyme.com/quackwatch.html
Get Real

Palm Coast, FL

#7 Jun 16, 2010
First of all the article is very misleading. Chiropractors are not licensed in biomedical acupuncture in VA. Just read the law and get the facts.

They may be allowed to perform Acupuncture but are not LICENSED in Acupuncture. They are Chiros.

The person writing the article is really misinformed. Bioacupuncture is a another fancy name for medical acupuncture. Biopuncture is actually the injection of medicine into the body.

They may also not have that right for too long. Many states are getting aggressive with this subject. Licensed Acupuncturists are the way to go. Also you cannot in anyway compare the training of a MD to that of a Chiro. At least most MD's will tell a patient to go to a licensed acupuncturist. But Chiros want to do everything BUT Chiro? Very Dangerous.
Aerial View

AOL

#8 Jun 17, 2010
Get Real wrote:
First of all the article is very misleading. Chiropractors are not licensed in biomedical acupuncture in VA. Just read the law and get the facts.
They may be allowed to perform Acupuncture but are not LICENSED in Acupuncture. They are Chiros.
The person writing the article is really misinformed. Bioacupuncture is a another fancy name for medical acupuncture. Biopuncture is actually the injection of medicine into the body.
They may also not have that right for too long. Many states are getting aggressive with this subject. Licensed Acupuncturists are the way to go. Also you cannot in anyway compare the training of a MD to that of a Chiro. At least most MD's will tell a patient to go to a licensed acupuncturist. But Chiros want to do everything BUT Chiro? Very Dangerous.
Get Real has no clue what he's talking about. Just another 'chiropractic expert' wannabe like wisdom.
Fact: Each state chiropractic board determines their own scope of practice and many states, like New Mexico, even INCLUDE the use of injections of several types of drugs. Similarly, Alaska, Idaho, Utah, and Oklahoma also have a broad chiropractic scope of practice--which also includes medical acupuncture. Acupuncturists are making headway with what THEY can do but don't think in any way they have an affect on what chiropractors are allowed to do. Acupuncture boards simply don't have that kind of influence over chiropractors. I'm glad acupuncturists have their own license (in many states, not all), but they're influence over chiropractic boards is zero.
Wisdom

Newark, NJ

#9 Jun 17, 2010
And don't forget, that during their "training", chiropractors never examine, diagnose or treat patients with serious illnesses. And yet, when they "graduate" they claim to be able to treat serious illnesses such as bed wetting, cystic fibrosis, ADHD, Parkinsons etc etc with bizarre treatments like dnft, activator and yes, acupuncture. And chiropractors don't seem to think that's a problem. Which is even MORE of a problem.

It really is bizarre.

The chiropractic diaper must be emptied.
Aerial View

AOL

#10 Jun 17, 2010
Wisdom wrote:
And don't forget, that during their "training", chiropractors never examine, diagnose or treat patients with serious illnesses. And yet, when they "graduate" they claim to be able to treat serious illnesses such as bed wetting, cystic fibrosis, ADHD, Parkinsons etc etc with bizarre treatments like dnft, activator and yes, acupuncture. And chiropractors don't seem to think that's a problem. Which is even MORE of a problem.
It really is bizarre.
The chiropractic diaper must be emptied.
This, coming from a liar (wisdom, oh, I'm referring to wisdom as being the liar--make no mistake) who demands 'proof' that chiropractic works, "evidence!" he demands when someone makes a claim. Where is wisdom's evidence? He CLAIMS to be a chiropractic expert but offers no proof. In other words, wisdom is a fraud. Wisdom has never been able to back up his big mouth, his CLAIM, that he is the chiropractic expert. When asked to do so he says, "No, I don't have to. Look there! Look away." And he cops out with smoke and mirrors. He also said, "facts are facts and they speak for themselves." Right you are, liar. And the fact is wisdom is a fake and a liar. The 'proof' is in in NOT proving it. he he he
Wisdom

Newark, NJ

#11 Jun 17, 2010
And don't forget, that during their "training", chiropractors never examine, diagnose or treat patients with serious illnesses. And yet, when they "graduate" they claim to be able to treat serious illnesses such as bed wetting, cystic fibrosis, ADHD, Parkinsons etc etc with bizarre treatments like dnft, activator and yes, acupuncture. And chiropractors don't seem to think that's a problem. Which is even MORE of a problem.

Facts are facts.
Aerial View

AOL

#12 Jun 18, 2010
Wisdom wrote:
And don't forget, that during their "training", chiropractors never examine, diagnose or treat patients with serious illnesses. And yet, when they "graduate" they claim to be able to treat serious illnesses such as bed wetting, cystic fibrosis, ADHD, Parkinsons etc etc with bizarre treatments like dnft, activator and yes, acupuncture. And chiropractors don't seem to think that's a problem. Which is even MORE of a problem.
Facts are facts.
Just more lies from wisdom who cannot back up his fake claim that he is the chiropractic expert. Everything this nut job has said about chiropracitc is false and a lie. Wisdom has not presented any 'fact' or evidence he is an expert in anything. He's just a fraud. Facts are facts. "I'm the chiropractic expert." Big mouth can't back it up with evidence.
Wisdom

Newark, NJ

#13 Jun 18, 2010
Well, let's expose the facts again,

And don't forget, that during their "training", chiropractors never examine, diagnose or treat patients with serious illnesses. And yet, when they "graduate" they claim to be able to treat serious illnesses such as bed wetting, cystic fibrosis, ADHD, Parkinsons etc etc with bizarre treatments like dnft, activator and yes, acupuncture. And chiropractors don't seem to think that's a problem. Which is even MORE of a problem.

Facts are facts.

Again, and I know this is a difficult concept for quacks to understand, but, it is up to the "chiropractor" to present legit evidence that what they claim is true.

I won't hold my breath waiting for their evidence. He he

Oh, and for any real chiropractor out there .... calling me a "liar" is not evidence. But hey, I understand your desperation after you have been exposed.
Going Barefoot

Fairport, NY

#14 Jun 18, 2010
I understand where you are coming at with the argument that MDs are trained to do anything. However, there truly is a difference between an MD who has taken 300 hours of acupuncture classes and an acupuncture physician who has taken over 3000. There is an art that MDs don't learn, techniques that they just don't teach. I see an MD weekly who utilizes acupuncture in his office. When he does it, I don't seem to feel as if I have benefited nearly as much as when the acupuncture physician does the full treatment for me. Maybe it's just a psychosomatic thing, but, I wouldn't ever go to an MD, DC, or any other professional for something of this sort.
I've also worked in a chiropractors office previously and I watched as he underwent training to do acupuncture. Let me tell you, he learned everything online. He didn't actually physically touch a patient with a needle until after he "graduated". Granted, not all classes are like that, but, I would not let that man touch me with a 10 foot pole.
There have also been studies released not too long ago (within the past 5 years, I believe), that have said that anyone other than a trained/licensed acupuncture physician can actually do a tremendous amount of harm.

.... Just saying.
Aerial View

AOL

#15 Jun 18, 2010
Wisdom wrote:
Well, let's expose the facts again,
And don't forget, that during their "training", chiropractors never examine, diagnose or treat patients with serious illnesses. And yet, when they "graduate" they claim to be able to treat serious illnesses such as bed wetting, cystic fibrosis, ADHD, Parkinsons etc etc with bizarre treatments like dnft, activator and yes, acupuncture. And chiropractors don't seem to think that's a problem. Which is even MORE of a problem.
Facts are facts.
Again, and I know this is a difficult concept for quacks to understand, but, it is up to the "chiropractor" to present legit evidence that what they claim is true.
I won't hold my breath waiting for their evidence. He he
Oh, and for any real chiropractor out there .... calling me a "liar" is not evidence. But hey, I understand your desperation after you have been exposed.
HA HA HA HA! And we won't hold our breat waiting for you to produce your 'expert' credentials because you have none. Wisdom has not presented any true facts about chiropractic. All of his statements, and I do mean ALL of them are tainted with lies. All of them. Wisdom is the ultimate liar with no credentials.
Wisdom

Newark, NJ

#16 Jun 18, 2010
"barefoot" said, "'ve also worked in a chiropractors office previously and I watched as he underwent training to do acupuncture. Let me tell you, he learned everything online. He didn't actually physically touch a patient with a needle until after he "graduated". Granted, not all classes are like that, but, I would not let that man touch me with a 10 foot pole."

barefoot, you are just touching the surface when it comes to the pathetic clinical training these chiropractors get. If state and federal auhtorities had any idea of the actual "clinical" experience chiropractors (in training) get, they'd close down chiropractic schools and STOP all chiropractors from calling themselves "portal of entry" practitioners.

Let's face it. Most chiropractors have absolutely NO idea what real clinical experience and training is.

Imagine, right now in New Mexico, some chiropractors are getting the right to prescribe, mostly OTC medications, after, NOW get THIOS, a "90" hour seminar.

Yup, NO actual clinical experience in "prescribing" yet they want to be considered "competent" after their 90 hour seminar.

The chiropractic diaper must be emptied. Now. Before someone gets hurt.
Aerial View

AOL

#17 Jun 18, 2010
Wisdom wrote:
"barefoot" said, "'ve also worked in a chiropractors office previously and I watched as he underwent training to do acupuncture. Let me tell you, he learned everything online. He didn't actually physically touch a patient with a needle until after he "graduated". Granted, not all classes are like that, but, I would not let that man touch me with a 10 foot pole."
barefoot, you are just touching the surface when it comes to the pathetic clinical training these chiropractors get. If state and federal auhtorities had any idea of the actual "clinical" experience chiropractors (in training) get, they'd close down chiropractic schools and STOP all chiropractors from calling themselves "portal of entry" practitioners.
Let's face it. Most chiropractors have absolutely NO idea what real clinical experience and training is.
Imagine, right now in New Mexico, some chiropractors are getting the right to prescribe, mostly OTC medications, after, NOW get THIOS, a "90" hour seminar.
Yup, NO actual clinical experience in "prescribing" yet they want to be considered "competent" after their 90 hour seminar.
The chiropractic diaper must be emptied. Now. Before someone gets hurt.
AHHHHHHHHHHH AHHAHAAHAHAHAH AHA HA HA HAHAA HA HA HA! Can wisdom get any more fradulent? " Let me tell you, he learned everything online. He didn't actually physically touch a patient with a needle until after he "graduated"
AH AH HA HA. This is coming from the BIGGEST fraud here, wisdom! HE has NEVER touched a patient. Why? Because if he (wisdom the liar) did, he'd be thrown in jail for assault. Why? He has no license and NO professional degrees to practice. Oh boy, does it get better than this. Wisdom has NO, not one, expert credential and yet this liar and fraud is bible banging against chiropractors. How pathetic. Wisdom is the ULTIMATE fraud. He knows ZERO about chiropractic.

“Asheville Acupuncturist”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#18 Jun 23, 2010
As a practitioner of chinese medicine I find it disconcerting that I need 4 years of graduate school to practice acupuncture while medical doctors need only 300 hours and chiropractors only a few courses. Please look at it the other way around. Would a 300-hour course prepare me to practice allopathy? Would a handfiul of classes along the way qualify me to be as proficient at chiropractice as someone who has an official degree? Of course not.
tom

Saint Paul, MN

#19 Jun 23, 2010
nhyton-

Yes-- PTs want to claim manipulation(the expertise of DCs) without the neccessary education, also.

What are your thoughts/opinion on PT "dry needling"?

http://www.dryneedlingcourse.com/
Wisdom

Newark, NJ

#20 Jun 23, 2010
Chiropractic "training" consists of chiropractors "locating" and "removing" fictitious lesions they call "chiropractic subluxations".

Chiropractors call it their "clinical experience".

They have been exposed as frauds.

Indeed, as I posted before,

"Imagine, right now in New Mexico, some chiropractors are getting the right to prescribe, albeit, mostly OTC medications, after, NOW get THIS, a "90" hour (in a hotel room) seminar.

Yup, NO actual clinical experience in "prescribing" yet they want to be considered "competent" after their 90 hour seminar.

The chiropractic diaper must be emptied. Now. Before someone gets hurt."

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