Homeopath has changed our daughtera s...

Homeopath has changed our daughtera s life

There are 102 comments on the Galway Advertiser story from Apr 22, 2010, titled Homeopath has changed our daughtera s life. In it, Galway Advertiser reports that:

Owen Flatley's letter mocking homeopathy is arrant nonsense. His preference to be treated by a doctor from 2010 instead of 1807 overlooks the fact that Western medicine is a relatively new and exploratory form of medicine compared to acupuncture and Chinese medicine and homeopathy Lillian Van Eycken has helped thousands of people, but most ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Galway Advertiser.

ikz

Pune, India

#21 Apr 26, 2010
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
No its not a test at all. You have a sample size of one so how can you be sure it was the tablet that cured her? How can you be sure that she would not have improved at that time without treatment?
Its the logical fallacy 'Post-hoc ergo propter hoc'. This fallacy follows the basic format of: A preceded B, therefore A caused B, and therefore assumes cause and effect for two events just because they are temporally related (the latin translates to "after this, therefore because of this").
Long back I asked you a question: What do you know about homeopathy? I will repeat it again now: What do you know about homeopathy?

In homeopathy you treat individuals- so the cases have to be 1+1+1...

What did you expect? Reepeatable reaction like you get for heroin? Heroin qualifies as a PERFECT drug in your system - always the same reaction- NO PLACEBO.
Mark

Conder, Australia

#22 Apr 26, 2010
ikz wrote:
<quoted text>
Long back I asked you a question: What do you know about homeopathy? I will repeat it again now: What do you know about homeopathy?
In homeopathy you treat individuals- so the cases have to be 1+1+1...
What did you expect? Reepeatable reaction like you get for heroin? Heroin qualifies as a PERFECT drug in your system - always the same reaction- NO PLACEBO.
Unlike homeopathy heroin is dose dependant. Too little = no pain relief, too much = death. Given this how would watering heroin down until the mixture contained not even one molecule of heroin make it stronger?
Mage

Eden, NC

#23 Apr 27, 2010
ikz wrote:
<quoted text>
This practise was part of the scientific conventional doctor's system of removing blood tainted with GERMS.
Why is it quoted under homeopathy?
ikz,

...no, it wasn't. By what scientific theory or mechanism did bloodletting kill germs?

The practice was invented to balance the 4 humors (prescientific idea) and later used because they thought sick people just had 'bad blood' and it was better to get it out.

It's not related to homeopathy except for them both having prescientific origins.
Mage

Eden, NC

#24 Apr 27, 2010
ikz wrote:
<quoted text>
Long back I asked you a question: What do you know about homeopathy? I will repeat it again now: What do you know about homeopathy?
In homeopathy you treat individuals- so the cases have to be 1+1+1...
This is a weak excuse for why homeopathy fails so badly in scientific studies. It also doesn't explain why homeopathic medicines are often mass-produced, like in pharmacy's in the UK, or even CRedd's unsupported Cuba story.
ikz

Pune, India

#25 Apr 27, 2010
Mage wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a weak excuse for why homeopathy fails so badly in scientific studies. It also doesn't explain why homeopathic medicines are often mass-produced, like in pharmacy's in the UK, or even CRedd's unsupported Cuba story.
It does not if you add cases cured 1+1+1......... Check for results available.

A medecine is supposed to effect a cure - why is it necessary for it to pass a conventional drug test?
ikz

Pune, India

#26 Apr 27, 2010
ikz wrote:
<quoted text>
Long back I asked you a question: What do you know about homeopathy? I will repeat it again now: What do you know about homeopathy?
In homeopathy you treat individuals- so the cases have to be 1+1+1...
What did you expect? Reepeatable reaction like you get for heroin? Heroin qualifies as a PERFECT drug in your system - always the same reaction- NO PLACEBO.
Please do a course on homeopathic pharmacy system; you will get the required information.
Mage

Eden, NC

#27 Apr 27, 2010
ikz wrote:
<quoted text>
It does not if you add cases cured 1+1+1......... Check for results available.
A medecine is supposed to effect a cure - why is it necessary for it to pass a conventional drug test?
It is not a conventional drug test - it is a scientific test. A pile of anecdotes contains little value.

We don't know any of these "cases cured" are even legitimate.
ikz

Pune, India

#28 Apr 27, 2010
Mage wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not a conventional drug test - it is a scientific test. A pile of anecdotes contains little value.
We don't know any of these "cases cured" are even legitimate.
It is a scientific test that checks the short term response of the body to a chemical. How can this be medicine? The human body and the parasite is not ONLY chemical!

The pile of anecdotes are pushed aside because they undermine the basic structure on which the conventional medical structure is built.

To support the short comings, the side effects are defined up front, recalls are permitted, dosage quantity/kg of patient are defined, virus and bacteria have names (and numbers for new ones)and drugs finally manage your ailment-not cure you.

Mark

Conder, Australia

#29 Apr 27, 2010
ikz wrote:
<quoted text>
It does not if you add cases cured 1+1+1......... Check for results available.
A medecine is supposed to effect a cure - why is it necessary for it to pass a conventional drug test?
Each case is a single anecdote because there is no blinding or controls in place. Do some work & read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_trial
Mark

Conder, Australia

#30 Apr 27, 2010
ikz wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a scientific test that checks the short term response of the body to a chemical. How can this be medicine? The human body and the parasite is not ONLY chemical!


ikz please tell us what part of your body isn't made up of chemicals?(a vacuum in his skull???)
Homoeopathy Specialist

Bhubaneswar, India

#31 Apr 28, 2010
Can you explain me why the suh radiate heat why not cool?
Can you explain me all in detail in molecular and electron level how your immune system works? can you explain me why H2O always convert water why not it convert to any metal? can you explain me why thge Melanin pigments are black in nature why not blue? can you explain me how your computer CPU remember all the data you feed and why? can you explain me why the fire burn al the things why not any other? can you expalin what is the inside the heat that burn all things,name the detail way how it happens? WHAT YOU KNOW THAT IS SCIENCE.... BUT WHAT YOU DONT KNOW THAT DOES NOT MEAN IT UNSCINTIFIC....BEFORE BLAMING OR CRITICIZING JUST ASK YOUR SELF HOW MUCH YOU KNOW ABPUT THE SCIENCE.... YOU JUST KNOW A DROP OF THINGS AND THERE IS A OCEAN JUST AFTER FEW YARDS....SO...U BETTER UNDERSTAND
Mark

Australia

#32 Apr 28, 2010
Homoeopathy Specialist wrote:
Can you explain me why the suh radiate heat why not cool?
Can you explain me all in detail in molecular and electron level how your immune system works? can you explain me why H2O always convert water why not it convert to any metal? can you explain me why thge Melanin pigments are black in nature why not blue? can you explain me how your computer CPU remember all the data you feed and why? can you explain me why the fire burn al the things why not any other? can you expalin what is the inside the heat that burn all things,name the detail way how it happens? WHAT YOU KNOW THAT IS SCIENCE.... BUT WHAT YOU DONT KNOW THAT DOES NOT MEAN IT UNSCINTIFIC....BEFORE BLAMING OR CRITICIZING JUST ASK YOUR SELF HOW MUCH YOU KNOW ABPUT THE SCIENCE.... YOU JUST KNOW A DROP OF THINGS AND THERE IS A OCEAN JUST AFTER FEW YARDS....SO...U BETTER UNDERSTAND
All those things have been explained. We know that homeopathy cannot work & this is backed up by tests which proves it cannot work. It isn't that we don't understand, we understand psuedoscience & it doesn't work.
Mage

Eden, NC

#33 Apr 28, 2010
ikz wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a scientific test that checks the short term response of the body to a chemical. How can this be medicine? The human body and the parasite is not ONLY chemical!
Trials can check the short or long term response of anything (to varying degrees of accuracy depending on confounders). How is homeopathy excluded from this process?

You say it causes a short-term response in the human body. Ok, then let's test that.
ikz wrote:
<quoted text>
The pile of anecdotes are pushed aside because they undermine the basic structure on which the conventional medical structure is built.
Bull. The scientific method is independent of medicine.
ikz

Pune, India

#34 Apr 28, 2010
Mage wrote:
<quoted text>
Trials can check the short or long term response of anything (to varying degrees of accuracy depending on confounders). How is homeopathy excluded from this process?
You say it causes a short-term response in the human body. Ok, then let's test that.
<quoted text>
Bull. The scientific method is independent of medicine.
Check your own comments. How do you achieve similar results with placebo to the extent that you have to compare and statistically prove SOME difference because there is much similarity.
ikz

Pune, India

#35 Apr 28, 2010
Mage wrote:
<quoted text>
Trials can check the short or long term response of anything (to varying degrees of accuracy depending on confounders). How is homeopathy excluded from this process?
You say it causes a short-term response in the human body. Ok, then let's test that.
<quoted text>
Would you like a personal experience? Of what type?
Mage

Eden, NC

#36 Apr 28, 2010
ikz wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you like a personal experience? Of what type?
I would like to experience you actually responding to the contents of my posts.
Mark

Conder, Australia

#37 Apr 28, 2010
ikz wrote:
<quoted text>
Check your own comments. How do you achieve similar results with placebo to the extent that you have to compare and statistically prove SOME difference because there is much similarity.
This is why placebo is an essential part of a clinical trial - it is to compare no medicine against actual medicine with everything else being equal (both patient & doctor not knowing who is getting medicine or placebo, patients getting the same quality of health provision, etc).

When homeopathy is tested against placebo there is no real difference between them. This indicates that like a placebo, homeopathy at best creates an illusuion of improvement. When compared to a real drug, those getting real medication may also show no difference to placebo or the patients may have substantial improvement compared to placebo or the patients may show worse recovery compared to placebo.

Also one study is not enough, positive results need to be independently replicated, usually several times before a drug is approved for use. Even then there are long term studies that monitor any adverse side effects many years into the future.

A common thing to homeopaths websites is they proved testimonials. This is convient for them as there are no controls in place to see if a disease has been cured by homeopathy or not. They will cite cures for cancer yet they do not provide 5 & 10 year follow-ups to ensure that the patient is still in remission or even alive. This is done in real medicine.

ikz, once again read this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_trial
C Redd

Towaco, NJ

#38 Apr 28, 2010
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
This is why placebo is an essential part of a clinical trial - it is to compare no medicine against actual medicine with everything else being equal (both patient & doctor not knowing who is getting medicine or placebo, patients getting the same quality of health provision, etc).
When homeopathy is tested against placebo there is no real difference between them. This indicates that like a placebo, homeopathy at best creates an illusuion of improvement. When compared to a real drug, those getting real medication may also show no difference to placebo or the patients may have substantial improvement compared to placebo or the patients may show worse recovery compared to placebo.
Also one study is not enough, positive results need to be independently replicated, usually several times before a drug is approved for use. Even then there are long term studies that monitor any adverse side effects many years into the future.
A common thing to homeopaths websites is they proved testimonials. This is convient for them as there are no controls in place to see if a disease has been cured by homeopathy or not. They will cite cures for cancer yet they do not provide 5 & 10 year follow-ups to ensure that the patient is still in remission or even alive. This is done in real medicine.
ikz, once again read this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_trial
Have you ever seen famous people, actors and actresses, provide "testimony" about big pharma's drugs? I see them on TV every night. They try to give the impression (e.g., Sally Fields doing a promotion for an osteoporosis drug) that they themselves use the drug. What Sally doesn't say during the commercial is that she herself does NOT take that drug and is merely being paid to make it appear as if she does, that she likes the drug and recommends it to others. You'll notice Sally doesn't say whether or not it has helped her.

If anyone does give testimony about the benefits of homeopathy, you can be sure they have provided it without being asked to and without being paid. They are giving testimony in good faith. Paid testimonies are never done in homeopathy.

"A common thing to homeopaths websites is they proved testimonials." You're quite right (I'm well aware that you don't really mean what you've written)....the beneficial results of homeopathics which people describe have been proven many times over during the course of the past 200 years through homeopathic provings.

Homeopathic provings are far more accurate and of a higher standard than clinical trials. Homeopathic provers are healthy, adult volunteers. They and the person conducting the proving note and document the physical, mental and emotional effects of the remedy with great care during each state of the proving. The results of provings are based pm true science--that is, on observation, cause and effect.

Clinical trials, on the other hand, are conducted with people who have been paid to enter the trial. They are often alcoholics, drug addicts and homeless people in need of money. They bring to the trial their own set of diseases. The people who conduct clinical trials are well known to select for their trials only those people they believe will show a positive effect for the drug they're testing. Clearly, this is not good science or representative of the true actions of the drug.
C Redd

Towaco, NJ

#39 Apr 28, 2010
Should read...."They and the person conducting the proving note and document the physical, mental and emotional effects of the remedy with great care during each "stage" of the proving. The results...are based "on" true science..."
Mark

Conder, Australia

#42 Apr 28, 2010
An actor in an advert is selling a product - it is never claimed to be a medical trial.

Homeopathic provings have nothing to do with homeopathy. They gave measurable quantities of pure chemicals to people & noted their responses. Then they diluted those chemicals until none existed in the solution then make the retarded claim the diluted chemical is stronger than the undiluted chemical.

This is such as stupid idea that it almost calls for is own category in the annuals of stupidity. It makes no sense, it defies physics & it is demonstrably wrong.

What you wrote about people involved in clinical trials is an outright lie. Once again when you don't know (which is quite a lot) you pull stuff out your posterior.

For people interested in what actually goes on in clinical trials here is a good start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_trial

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