Majority of DACC nursing students fail exam

Full story: Las Cruces Sun-News

Several Dona Ana Community College nursing students will not participate in today's graduation ceremony with other members of their class after failing a newly implemented comprehensive exam.

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Duke City Kid

Albuquerque, NM

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#181
Dec 15, 2008
 
"instructors"
VJL

AOL

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#182
Dec 15, 2008
 

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Girlie wrote:
The only reason DACC and NMSU use the Hesi exam is to keep their NCLEX passing scores high. Fact is, if these girls couldn't pass the Hesi, they should not have been in their last semester. The big question here is why did DACC continue to pass these students who clearly weren't knowledgeable in the content? I do feel bad for them. They put lots of time and money into a degree they don't have.
Giving these girls a degree is the right thing to do. They won't be able to pass the boards anyway. Therefore, they won't work as a nurse. However, they would at least have the option to go to NMSU's RN to BSN program. Then, I am sure, they will be able to pass the Hesi and be competent nurses.
You are wrong on both counts, passing rate on the NCLEX have been abysmal for both schools of nursing. Dacc has finally done something to remedy the problem.
The Hesi is the determinant of competency because with your degree in hand BEFORE your have your RN you can go to work as a GN. Do you really want someone taking care of you who is incompetant because they were GIVEN a degree?
Girlie

Albuquerque, NM

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#183
Dec 15, 2008
 

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How am I wrong? NMSU's pass rate for the NCLEX has been high since implementing the HESI. However, each semester their students take a Hesi that pertains to their current content, in order to prepare them for the final HESI. THeir students are also aware from day one of the program that they MUST pass the Hesi to graduate.
Springing the HESI on the students during the last semester is not right. I bet the the school only did this because they knew these girls would not pass the NCLEX. The NM board of nursing has not been impressed with DACC, and if they prevent these girls from taking the NCLEX, their pass rate will be high.
On another note, it is the NM Board of Nursing who determines whether you are competant enough to be an RN. They do this by making everyone take the NCLEX before working as a nurse,
Most nurses will agree that even the smartest, most qualified new graduate nurse is a fish out of water when she begins working, and is not a very good nurse. It takes years of work, dedication, and support from more experienced nurses that make a good nurse.
No one is ever GIVEN a degree. When you take all the required courses, and pass them successfully, the next logical step is a degree. Please understand that I support the HESI exam and I think it is great that NMSU and DACC are implementing it. They just should have given them more time to prepare. Four months during your last semester of nursing school is not enough. If you think it is, you obviously have never been in nursing school.
Designer

Phoenix, AZ

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#184
Dec 15, 2008
 
I get the feeling that this comprehensive test is comprised of everything they have already learned in previous semesters, and stuff they will need to know when they are out in the field working- meaning, I wouldnt want them out there taking care of me or my loved ones if they couldnt pass it either!!! Its not like they are going to be a Graphic Artist (which is what I do)...if I dont choose the right color for an Ad no one could potentially die! If they dont know enough to pass a test that they knew about since August then they shouldnt be allowed anywhere near patients. plain and simple. Plus, an 850 is about a 60% if its taken out of 1500.... thats a D in most worlds... its a scary thought that you can pass with a D to be a nurse
Duke City Kid

Albuquerque, NM

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#185
Dec 15, 2008
 

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Girlie wrote:
...Springing the HESI on the students during the last semester is not right. I bet the the school only did this because they knew these girls would not pass the NCLEX. The NM board of nursing has not been impressed with DACC, and if they prevent these girls from taking the NCLEX, their pass rate will be high.
Hmmm, more "number games" by the administration? It does make one suspicious, because it would be a quick fix to make the numbers look better. You mentioned that NMSU students take a component of the HESI at the end of each semester. Does DACC also plan to do the same?
VJL

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#186
Dec 15, 2008
 

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Girlie wrote:
How am I wrong? NMSU's pass rate for the NCLEX has been high since implementing the HESI. However, each semester their students take a Hesi that pertains to their current content, in order to prepare them for the final HESI. THeir students are also aware from day one of the program that they MUST pass the Hesi to graduate.
Springing the HESI on the students during the last semester is not right. I bet the the school only did this because they knew these girls would not pass the NCLEX. The NM board of nursing has not been impressed with DACC, and if they prevent these girls from taking the NCLEX, their pass rate will be high.
On another note, it is the NM Board of Nursing who determines whether you are competant enough to be an RN. They do this by making everyone take the NCLEX before working as a nurse,
Most nurses will agree that even the smartest, most qualified new graduate nurse is a fish out of water when she begins working, and is not a very good nurse. It takes years of work, dedication, and support from more experienced nurses that make a good nurse.
No one is ever GIVEN a degree. When you take all the required courses, and pass them successfully, the next logical step is a degree. Please understand that I support the HESI exam and I think it is great that NMSU and DACC are implementing it. They just should have given them more time to prepare. Four months during your last semester of nursing school is not enough. If you think it is, you obviously have never been in nursing school.
I am currently going into my third semester at DACC in the nursing program. I am also one of the students who went to Dr. Chieffo at the end of last semester with empiric proof that people were being passed through, hence many of the problems with the pass rates for the NCLEX at DACC.
Had these girls started studying for the NCLEX on day one, as we are all advised to do, the HESI would not have been a problem.
Neither of these tests are content driven, it is not a matter of being able to memorize, it is a matter of being able to apply. I spent all of last semester answering questions on tests that had multiple correct answers, but only one is the best answer. The NCLEX is written in the same manner and it tests for a MINIMUM level of competency.
I do not favor GN's being unleashed on the community with the schools guarantee to the hospital that they have indeed reached the MINIMUM level of competency.
Duke City Kid

Albuquerque, NM

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#187
Dec 15, 2008
 
Designer wrote:
Plus, an 850 is about a 60% if its taken out of 1500.... thats a D in most worlds... its a scary thought that you can pass with a D to be a nurse
You are mixing apples with oranges. The passing score is based on Percentiles - which is a comparison of the rankings of ALL test takers. As mentioned earlier, it is not a criterion referenced exam - which is based on letter grades.
hindsight 20_20

Albuquerque, NM

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#188
Dec 15, 2008
 
Girlie wrote:
The only reason DACC and NMSU use the Hesi exam is to keep their NCLEX passing scores high. Fact is, if these girls couldn't pass the Hesi, they should not have been in their last semester. The big question here is why did DACC continue to pass these students who clearly weren't knowledgeable in the content? I do feel bad for them. They put lots of time and money into a degree they don't have.
Giving these girls a degree is the right thing to do. They won't be able to pass the boards anyway. Therefore, they won't work as a nurse. However, they would at least have the option to go to NMSU's RN to BSN program. Then, I am sure, they will be able to pass the Hesi and be competent nurses.
Look "Girlie", here is the deal. If these flunkies get a degree they get to sit for the NCLEX. Which means WHEN they fail and they will, it will reflect on DACC. DACC nursing program is fighting for it's life, they CAN NOT PASS these students if they want to keep the program going for the cohorts behind them who WILL PASS the NCLEX under the new administration.
Bobby

Albuquerque, NM

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#189
Dec 15, 2008
 
Feels Like a Mushroom wrote:
56% to pass in a medical field? how is this not lowering the standards? makes me wonder about my own health care profesionals...were they educated before the new politically correct standards were implemented? guess i should ask them.
In 1979 I took the Emergency Medical Technician-Basic course and the minimum passing score was 85%. In 1987 I took the Emergency Medical Technician-Paramedic course and the class final exam had a 90% minimum score with the NM/National licensing exam minimum was also 90%.

It looks like standards have dropped considerably for the medical professionals. That does not look good for the communities they serve
NMSU Nursing student

Albuquerque, NM

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#190
Dec 15, 2008
 

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One semester is more than enough time to prepare for the HESI. You get what you put into it. There was a ten day break for the Thanksgiving holiday to study for the second administration of the test. If you want to be a nurse it takes effort, in school and the workplace. I passed it the first time I took it but I studied. As a student for those who did not pass my advice is focus on what is important and study for the test.
to be an RN

Albuquerque, NM

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#191
Dec 15, 2008
 
Duke City Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Hmmm, more "number games" by the administration? It does make one suspicious, because it would be a quick fix to make the numbers look better. You mentioned that NMSU students take a component of the HESI at the end of each semester. Does DACC also plan to do the same?
What you all are missing is that 6 students failed the HESI, the rest of the students who were not allowed to graduate failed to meet clinical hours. This is the fault of the student. Again, from day one of the program we are told that clinical absences are not tolerated and must be made up. Period. If they missed clinical hours and did not make them up, they have nobody to blame for that but themselves. The HESI pass rate was actually pretty good.

DACC is currently administering ATI exams multiple times throughout the semester. The ATI measures the same core competencies as HESI, they are just a different company. A better one? No. And students will be more than willing to admit that, as will instructors. However, the ATI program has been paid for and therefore we continue to use it. The ATI exams are effective, however, we have found a few inconsistencies when comparing to the textbooks we are currently using.

I believe that the community will see an increased EARNED graduation and NCLEX pass rate beginning next May. The students currently going in to the last semester have used ATI since day 1 of their entrance into the program. Although ATI is not perfect, it is still a wonderful tool to measure competencies in multiple areas. A breakdown is available to each student upon completion of the test that gives empiric data guiding the student to go back and study certain material again. It will actually tell the student where their shortcomings are and facilitate studying. IF IT IS USED CORRECTLY BY THE STUDENT.
VJL

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#192
Dec 15, 2008
 

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NMSU Nursing student wrote:
One semester is more than enough time to prepare for the HESI. You get what you put into it. There was a ten day break for the Thanksgiving holiday to study for the second administration of the test. If you want to be a nurse it takes effort, in school and the workplace. I passed it the first time I took it but I studied. As a student for those who did not pass my advice is focus on what is important and study for the test.
Thank you! I'm getting tired of everyone making excuses for slackers!
DACC student

Albuquerque, NM

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#193
Dec 15, 2008
 

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Girlie wrote:
No one is ever GIVEN a degree. When you take all the required courses, and pass them successfully, the next logical step is a degree. Please understand that I support the HESI exam and I think it is great that NMSU and DACC are implementing it. They just should have given them more time to prepare. Four months during your last semester of nursing school is not enough. If you think it is, you obviously have never been in nursing school.
You say that no one is GIVEN a degree, yet your previous post includes a request to just give them the degree so they can take the NCLEX. Are you not understanding the ramifications of all of this? These girls were unable to perform at the MINIMUM level of competency. In addition, giving them a degree will not allow them to enter the RN to BSN program. Again, do you not understand that the title of RN is granted only upon successful completion of the NCLEX?

And for everyone else...quit complaining that the HESI was sprung on the students and they were unfairly required to pass the exam! The HESI may have been added recently (with 4 months to prepare), the NCLEX was not! If they can't pass the HESI, they can't pass the NCLEX! When I complete my 4th semester I will be glad to take any competency exam asked of me because I WILL BE PREPARED! I am working my butt off for this and I am offended that anyone would be granted the same degree as I, when it is obvious they didn't give a rat's a** about studying and working hard.

The only thing these girls accomplished by going to the press is the fact that they now have to face their shortcomings in a very public way.
hindsight 20_20

Albuquerque, NM

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#194
Dec 15, 2008
 
DACC student wrote:
<quoted text>

The only thing these girls accomplished by going to the press is the fact that they now have to face their shortcomings in a very public way.
LMAO...what does that say about their critical thinking skills?
DACC student

Albuquerque, NM

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#195
Dec 15, 2008
 
hindsight 20_20 wrote:
<quoted text>
LMAO...what does that say about their critical thinking skills?
That they had "that" first semester instructor who was more focused on legislation and politics than in helping her class hone their critical thinking skills? Makes me so happy I came into the program with common sense and the ability to critically think. Hopefully the verbal interviews they are conducting for next semester's admissions will help weed some of the crap out before they are allowed to start!
Old period

Houston, TX

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#196
Dec 15, 2008
 
Tyler wrote:
1) Those students shouldn't complain about the August thing. Four months is a long time to prep for anything.
2) The sun-news continues to show its editorial failures. I'm glad I read online instead of paying for this thing.
Me too dude.
Healthcare worker

Albuquerque, NM

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#197
Dec 15, 2008
 
Ronnie wrote:
That's funny cause if you ask most of the healthcare workers out there, they will usually say that they would rather work with DACC students more than 4 yr prepared students because we are better prepared for the hands on skills required to give patient care. A test is a test is a test is a test. Depending on which company is administering the test is gonna depend on the kind of results you will get. <quoted text>
Wow! Anyone can hang an IV bag, can insert a catheter, start an IV with some hands on instruction. And I AM a healthcare worker and while you guys are great at all that stuff you are overconfident! One student grabbed and IV piggyback antibiotic and asked me if she wanted me to hang it and I said sure! Then I asker her what it was for and she had no idea- and she was already walking away from me with it in her hand- without the medication record to verify that it was the correct medication ordered for the patient! Who cares which school you go to! Just don't put my patients in jeopardy because of your overconfidence! A test related to the patient scenarios is much mroe important to me than someone being able to stick a needle in someone... Sorry!
Local floor nurse

Albuquerque, NM

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#198
Dec 15, 2008
 
RN Degree wrote:
<quoted text> Ronnie, I hate to disagree with you, but I've worked for a local area hospital for 20 years and although the students are eager for hands on experience, the bottom line is you must enter this field with the proper knowledge and education. Yes, we enjoy having DACC students, but the reality of it is a RN degree should be obtained in four years not two. Two years is not enough time to experience, learn, absorb, and grasp all the information needed to be fully competent for this career. An exam, whom ever created it or issued it, has a purpose. The purpose to evaluate each individuals understanding of the information and skills provided to them during the entire course.
I could not agree with you more!
Local floor nurse

Albuquerque, NM

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#199
Dec 15, 2008
 
OH! I could write a novel! I have experienced firsthand the lack of preparedness for the clinical setting the the DACC students have- I am not referring to basic clinical skills (anyone can learn to change a diaper, bathe a patient, insert and IV, etc. quite easily) but I am referring to those that spend all morning milling around and by nine are not able to tell me what their medications are for that they are about to give their patients and why they might need them. When one student was offered to give an intravenous medication I asked this student how fast it is given over and a final semester DACC student had no idea where to even FIND the information and was shocked that this information was in a drug book which is required of all students!
The CNA prerequisite makes the DACC students more comfortable with basic nursing skills, and while this is extremely important it has nothing to do with the critical thinking relevant to patients situations that the HESI and NCLEX require to demonstrate competency.
In addition, if the students were aware that they were to take the HESI and were aware of the notoriously low pass rates on the NCLEX that their school has produced in the past they should have been in preparation since August. In fact, they should have been in preparation already for their NCLEX which in turn would have helped them on their HESI.
While this is not a debate of one program or the other it is entirely unfair to say that the bar has been set higher for DACC over NMSU when clearly the pass rates show differently. From 2004 to 2007, the DACC pass rates for the NLCEX were, 55.6, 78.3, 62.5, and 54.6. For NMSU they were 86.7, 92.7, 84.8, and 91.5. Which graduate would you like to care for your mother or father while they are in the hospital? The DACC program clearly needs more work and it must be noted that it will take much longer than six months (the length of time the new director has been in place) to undo four years of poor instruction. The DACC students are partially the victim here for the clear overall lack of proper attention and instruction needed, but that does not mean that they should be held to a standard that is subpar.
Duke City Kid

Albuquerque, NM

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#200
Dec 15, 2008
 
Local floor nurse wrote:
... The DACC students are partially the victim here for the clear overall lack of proper attention and instruction needed, but that does not mean that they should be held to a standard that is subpar.
Excellent point! and one that some of us have been trying to make all along. It's not just the students - it is also the program.

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