Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?

Feb 13, 2013 Full story: Q-Notes 1,638

President Barack Obama with Rev. Billy Graham at his house in Montreat, N.C., April 25, 2010.

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barry

Rainsville, AL

#1262 May 11, 2013
harpocrates wrote:
<quoted text>if it makes you feel better to believe i'm a christian, more power to you.
i've read the book.
that doesn't mean i worship jesus, or believe in an anthropic ABSOLUTE.
you're doing guilt by association. that is a fallacy as is ad hominems.
he is calling you a liar. but i can't figure out if he is saying that as a Christian you are denying Christ or as a non believer you are simply a liar.
harpocrates

Williamsburg, KY

#1263 May 11, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>so you use a modern dictionary to show what lament means.
you ignore the fact that the word was translated from a hebrew word.
then you ignore what the hebrew word means and how it was used the other time in the Bible.
so perhaps other translations of the Bible will show that it can mean what i said it meant.
En Español
Judges 11:40 (KJ21)
40 that the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.
Judges 11:40 (ASV)
that the daughters of Israel went yearly to celebrate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.
Judges 11:40 (CEB)
for four days every year Israelite daughters would go away to recount the story of the Gileadite Jephthah’s daughter.
Judges 11:40 (DARBY)
that from year to year the daughters of Israel go to celebrate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in the year.
Judges 11:40 (ERV)
Every year the young women of Israel would go out for four days to remember the daughter of Jephthah from Gilead and to cry for her.
Judges 11:40 (EXB)
every year the young women of Israel would go out for four days to remember [commemorate] the daughter of Jephthah from Gilead.
Judges 11:40 (GW)
that for four days every year the girls in Israel would go out to sing the praises of the daughter of Jephthah, the man from Gilead.
Judges 11:40 (HCSB)
that four days each year the young women of Israel would commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.
Judges 11:40 (NOG)
that for four days every year the girls in Israel would go out to sing the praises of the daughter of Jephthah, the man from Gilead.
Judges 11:40 (NASB)
that the daughters of Israel went yearly to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in the year.
Judges 11:40 (NCV)
every year the young women of Israel would go out for four days to remember the daughter of Jephthah from Gilead.
Judges 11:40 (NET)
Every year Israelite women commemorate the daughter of Jephthah
the Gileadite for four days.
Judges 11:40 (NIRV)
Each year the young women of Israel go away for four days. They do it in honor of the daughter of Jephthah. He was from the land of Gilead.
Judges 11:40 (NIV)
that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.
Judges 11:40 (NIVUK)
that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.
Judges 11:40 (WEB)
that the daughters of Israel went yearly to celebrate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.
and this one is the most interesting;
Judges 11:40 (YLT)
from time to time the daughters of Israel go to talk to the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite, four days in a year
lament is the word of choice 19 times
mourn 2x
weep 1x
grieve 1x
sorrow 1x
bewail 1x
but
celebrate 3x
sing 2x
honor 1x
commemorate 6x
recount 1x
remember 3x
talk 1x
so what do we have 6x a word that shows real grief is chosen
since one can lament the loss of a game or an opportunity [like having children], real grief or sorrow can not always be ascribed to the word "lament"
but we do have a toltal of 17x that a word is chosen which does not have to imply sorrow.
save your breath and give him the hebrew meaning:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/l...

1)(Piel) to recount, rehearse, tell again
barry

Rainsville, AL

#1264 May 11, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
It is true as proven by you never commenting on links given you.
If your sad apologetic mind won't allow you to that is on you not us. Live your life in ignorance fine with me.
Gives me more people to laugh at!:)
<quoted text>
how about an example of a link that i ignored? it ought to be easy, it should be right here on these pages.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#1265 May 11, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>how do you come to this conclusion? i always understood the josephus was from jeruselm.
http://www.infoplease.com/biography/var/flavi...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus
http://www.nndb.com/people/631/000101328/
He was born much too late to be a witness of your myth-jew.

Sorry about that.

Now, Thor? Thor is another thing; Thor does lightning! And Thunder.

And has a mighty hammer.

Your dead-jew on a stick? He got his azz nailed....!

Do the math.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#1266 May 11, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>nice try but wrong. you can't find one passage where God wanted or demanded a human offering sacrificed by fire.
Hell? Did you forget about the ultimate sacrifice to a god's vanity, that infinite fire you call "hell"?

You really are pretty dense, barryista.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#1267 May 11, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>no, you did not answer it. you have not shown where her sacrifice had to be physical death and burning.
Wow... your pathetic attempt to EXCUSE the atrocity and horrid collection of EVIL that is your bible is...

.... pathetic.

Now THOR?

Thor is cool. Thor is a god you can RESPECT.

He wears chain mail. And throws a hammer.

Your god? He got nailed to a stick....

... hmmm...

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#1268 May 11, 2013
And you just happen to agree with and quote Christian apologetics?

Try to hide your faith all you want, you're not fooling anyone.
harpocrates wrote:
<quoted text>if it makes you feel better to believe i'm a christian, more power to you.

i've read the book.

that doesn't mean i worship jesus, or believe in an anthropic ABSOLUTE.

you're doing guilt by association. that is a fallacy as is ad hominems.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#1270 May 11, 2013
Lament means mourn especially on the matter of death.

Did you really humiliate yourself by posting cherry picked versions of the word? And then tally what versions said what? Seriously?

Guess what? 100% of versions say he made a vow for a burnt offering and 100% of versions say he kept that vow.

:)
barry wrote:
<quoted text>so you use a modern dictionary to show what lament means.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#1271 May 11, 2013
Yahweh ordered him to kill his son, you are guessing he sent the angel. Why just tell Abraham himself?

It is possible the angel did that on his own yes?
barry wrote:
<quoted text>so God told him and then sent his messenger to stop him. big deal. the "angel of the LORD would lie to abraham?
i would guess that his position as the "angle of the LORD would then be very temporary.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#1272 May 11, 2013
You probably thought that was relevant in some fashion... Poor guy.
harpocrates wrote:
<quoted text>fyi, everything has a dark side, a shadow.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deed...

1 Kings 8:12
Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.

Psalm 139:12
Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#1273 May 11, 2013
Go back through the thread it's time you do something on your own without needing your hand held.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>how about an example of a link that i ignored? it ought to be easy, it should be right here on these pages.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#1274 May 11, 2013
Josephus never mentions Jesus in his works, all the Jesus passages are forgeries. He does however mention Hercules several times. I suppose the son of Zeus has more historical proof than Jesus :)
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>He was born much too late to be a witness of your myth-jew.

Sorry about that.

Now, Thor? Thor is another thing; Thor does lightning! And Thunder.

And has a mighty hammer.

Your dead-jew on a stick? He got his azz nailed....!

Do the math.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#1275 May 11, 2013
Lament to mourn especially after death.

Care to show the Hebrew word for burnt offering which was the vow?

Go pray about it in church, I do love humiliating you so much you have to keep changing screen names.

:)
harpocrates wrote:
<quoted text>save your breath and give him the hebrew meaning:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/l...

1)(Piel) to recount, rehearse, tell again

“My hand is over my crotch.”

Since: Jan 10

It's time to put it to use

#1276 May 12, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Just wanted to ad that his apologetic passages are dealing with separate subjects. His, do not let your child pass through the fire passage is edited, when you read it in it's entirety you see it is talking about sacrificing your child for divination. Jephthah was fulfilling a vow to god which would be the opposite of divination. The women of Israel did not visit her but rather met once a year to lament and mourn retelling the story of her sacrifice.
Funny how apologetics edit parts of their passages away and completely change what others say.
<quoted text>
They are master liars. Rather then admit their buybull is filled with cruelty and evil, they will try to twist and bend the words to distort the meaning.

“My hand is over my crotch.”

Since: Jan 10

It's time to put it to use

#1277 May 12, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>you're right it really had nothing to do with her virginity apart from the fact that jepthah who had no heritage now was not going to have any lineage to carry on his legacy.
and doing what he vowed to do would simply mean that he fulfilled the requirements of how she could be offered. he could have bought out of it and it would not have been counted against him but he chose to fulfill the vow of the offering. however the offering would have been no good and would have been condemned by God if he actually slew her and burnt her.
The vow of the offering was to give a burnt offering. No where does it mention that God rejected a burnt offering If Jepthah had changed the nature of his sacrifice, then the bible would have mentioned it the same way it mentioned when God prevented the killing of Isaac.

“My hand is over my crotch.”

Since: Jan 10

It's time to put it to use

#1278 May 12, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>you're right it really had nothing to do with her virginity apart from the fact that jepthah who had no heritage now was not going to have any lineage to carry on his legacy.
and doing what he vowed to do would simply mean that he fulfilled the requirements of how she could be offered. he could have bought out of it and it would not have been counted against him but he chose to fulfill the vow of the offering. however the offering would have been no good and would have been condemned by God if he actually slew her and burnt her.
You are trying to be slick and imply that because there are prohibitions against human offerings that this means that God would have not accepted such in the case of Jepthah.
Sorry, but your buybull is filled with hypocrisy and contradictions. The buybull has two different creation stories. The buybull says that no one should suffer for the sins of their ancestors, yet we inherit original sin from Adam and Eve. In the buybull, God kills the children of Sodom, Egypt, and Canaaan for the sins of their parents. The buybull sells whoever has a bastard shall. he and his children shall not enter Heaven for seven generations. The children of Canaan are cursed by Noah for the sins of their grandfather, Ham.
Clearly, your buybull is inconsistent.

“My hand is over my crotch.”

Since: Jan 10

It's time to put it to use

#1279 May 12, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>so God told him and then sent his messenger to stop him. big deal. the "angel of the LORD would lie to abraham?
i would guess that his position as the "angle of the LORD would then be very temporary.
That was a rather cruel joke for God to play, don't you think? To demand that a man kill his son and then to stop him at the last moment seems tyrannical to me.. not the actions of a just deity.
If any human played such a cruel joke, you'd be in uproar.
But he is God...big deal.
Too bad the children of Job did not get such benefits. God did not rely on Job to kill his kids, God did it himself.

“My hand is over my crotch.”

Since: Jan 10

It's time to put it to use

#1280 May 12, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Yahweh ordered him to kill his son, you are guessing he sent the angel. Why just tell Abraham himself?
It is possible the angel did that on his own yes?
<quoted text>
Possible, but it is more likely that God did not want Abraham to see him laughing at his humiliation.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#1281 May 12, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>so you use a modern dictionary to show what lament means.
you ignore the fact that the word was translated from a hebrew word.
then you ignore what the hebrew word means and how it was used the other time in the Bible.
so perhaps other translations of the Bible will show that it can mean what i said it meant.
En Español
Judges 11:40 (KJ21)
40 that the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.
Judges 11:40 (ASV)
that the daughters of Israel went yearly to celebrate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.
Judges 11:40 (CEB)
for four days every year Israelite daughters would go away to recount the story of the Gileadite Jephthah’s daughter.
Judges 11:40 (DARBY)
that from year to year the daughters of Israel go to celebrate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in the year.
Judges 11:40 (ERV)
Every year the young women of Israel would go out for four days to remember the daughter of Jephthah from Gilead and to cry for her.
Judges 11:40 (EXB)
every year the young women of Israel would go out for four days to remember [commemorate] the daughter of Jephthah from Gilead.
Judges 11:40 (GW)
that for four days every year the girls in Israel would go out to sing the praises of the daughter of Jephthah, the man from Gilead.
Judges 11:40 (HCSB)
that four days each year the young women of Israel would commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.
Judges 11:40 (NOG)
that for four days every year the girls in Israel would go out to sing the praises of the daughter of Jephthah, the man from Gilead.
Judges 11:40 (NASB)
that the daughters of Israel went yearly to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in the year.
Judges 11:40 (NCV)
every year the young women of Israel would go out for four days to remember the daughter of Jephthah from Gilead.
Judges 11:40 (NET)
Every year Israelite women commemorate the daughter of Jephthah
the Gileadite for four days.
Judges 11:40 (NIRV)
Each year the young women of Israel go away for four days. They do it in honor of the daughter of Jephthah. He was from the land of Gilead.
Judges 11:40 (NIV)
that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.
Judges 11:40 (NIVUK)
that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.
Judges 11:40 (WEB)
that the daughters of Israel went yearly to celebrate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.
and this one is the most interesting;
Judges 11:40 (YLT)
from time to time the daughters of Israel go to talk to the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite, four days in a year
lament is the word of choice 19 times
mourn 2x
weep 1x
grieve 1x
sorrow 1x
bewail 1x
but
celebrate 3x
sing 2x
honor 1x
commemorate 6x
recount 1x
remember 3x
talk 1x
so what do we have 6x a word that shows real grief is chosen
since one can lament the loss of a game or an opportunity [like having children], real grief or sorrow can not always be ascribed to the word "lament"
but we do have a toltal of 17x that a word is chosen which does not have to imply sorrow.
Apologetic garbage akin to that of a schizophrenic.

Man up and face the that fact that there's no proof of god and plenty against.

Grow up and do something worthwhile in your lives instead of following fraud cults.
harpocrates

Williamsburg, KY

#1282 May 12, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
<quoted text>And you just happen to agree with and quote Christian apologetics?[QUOTE]i also can quote western science. you believe that makes me a scientists?

you can't have it both ways.

[QUOTE who="Givemeliberty"] <quoted text>Try to hide your faith all you want, you're not fooling anyone.
<quoted text>
i'm not hiding anything. you just assume to much.

fyi, everyone has a belief system. atheism is a belief system. a belief system is identified by what it does and does not contain.

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