Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?

Feb 13, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Q-Notes

President Barack Obama with Rev. Billy Graham at his house in Montreat, N.C., April 25, 2010.

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“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#695
Mar 23, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>at least that is a logical and worth while consideration that is appropriate to the conversation.
Not really.

The facts are this:

** Yesuha (and variations) was quite a common name in the Middle East, back in the first century ACE.

** The Hebrews >>were<< being occupied by a foreign power.

** Whenever that happens, it's common for "prophets" and other "holy" men to speak of overthrowing their conquerors in various ways.

** simple statistics would indicate, with the above, that at least several of these "holy" men would've been named "Yesuha" or minor variations of the same.

** Human nature being what it is, ANY story that would encourage a conquered people in their time of oppression, WOULD GET PASSED AROUND. Of course, these stories grow ever more fantastic, with each iteration of being passed along....

Fast-forward to roughly 300ACE, when Constantine needs a new religion. His selected committee of Religion-Creators needed >>something<< around which to base this new religion.

>> fabricate a new religion based on the many Folk Stories of various different "holy" men, from several different regions, but all more or less common to the area.

Since that only covered the first little bit, they also fabricated a 2nd "holy" man, Paul, who allegedly took part of the Second Half--covering the events after the first "holy" man dies.

And he HAD to die-- what better "hero" than one who was a martyr?

>> after much back-and-forth, they also decided "wouldn't it be cool, if the "martyr" wasn't really a martyr, but was a ZOMBIE instead?

----------

There you have it: the fabrication of your Jewsus Myth.

__________

Christianity: The belief that some cosmic Jewish Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

Makes perfect sense.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#696
Mar 23, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Oh absolutely he could be a composite sketch of several Jewish rebels. That would make much more sense.
It's such a hodge podge anyways. Deuteronomy was penned first and then genesis through numbers was penned centuries later as prequels honestly.
<quoted text>
Without a doubt, it's a collection force-fit into a "single story".

And also without a doubt-- none of the Folk Legends were from original sources-- even modern Bible Scholars agree on that one.

Since nothing is original material? It's all of it, several generations removed-- gossip, in other words.

Or as I like to say, using a double-double entendre: fantastic fish tales.

:D

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#697
Mar 23, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Wait wait wait.
No sorry, you don't get to do that. You stated there was 120 people that were documented witnesses to Jesus. Okay so who are these 120 people?
How many can you name?
How many can you show secular evidence really existed?
After that where is the secular historical proof that they indeed stated they saw these magic tricks of Jesus?
If you are unable to answer this then you need to withdraw your assertion.
<quoted text>
You gotta remember what this "barry" chappy means by the word "documented".

By that? He means "because I say so"...

LMAO!

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#698
Mar 23, 2013
 
Certainly. Centuries even thousands of years before any of the Torah was penned we find the same stories told all over the region.

Jesus was about as unique as Starbucks. Virgin birth, 12 followers, kid genius, miracle man healing the sick raising the dead, walking on water, crucified, returns 3 days later, ascends into heaven with others watching... We only find elements if not the entire story in ancient literature presaging the Jesus myth by centuries.

Check out Dr. Price debating this theologian for some church. He just goes circles around the poor guy.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>Without a doubt, it's a collection force-fit into a "single story".

And also without a doubt-- none of the Folk Legends were from original sources-- even modern Bible Scholars agree on that one.

Since nothing is original material? It's all of it, several generations removed-- gossip, in other words.

Or as I like to say, using a double-double entendre: fantastic fish tales.

:D

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#699
Mar 23, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Certainly. Centuries even thousands of years before any of the Torah was penned we find the same stories told all over the region.
Jesus was about as unique as Starbucks. Virgin birth, 12 followers, kid genius, miracle man healing the sick raising the dead, walking on water, crucified, returns 3 days later, ascends into heaven with others watching... We only find elements if not the entire story in ancient literature presaging the Jesus myth by centuries.
Check out Dr. Price debating this theologian for some church. He just goes circles around the poor guy.
<quoted text>
Yes-- there is no doubt at all, the Jesus-Myth was simply a formal creation from wild Folk Tales (or as we'd say today, Urban Legends) compiled and edited to sort of appear consistent.

But careful inspection shows that they are not quite as consistent as they thought: many mistakes and contradictions abound in the NT.

Most amusing, really.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#700
Mar 23, 2013
 
Oh my goodness yes! The gospels especially do not match up or agree with each other.

That alone should give people pause in using this holy myth as a guideline for today.

Imagine if a history book said Washington was born at home, then another chapter said he was born at the bakery and then another chapter said he was born on a rooftop during taco night!

We would discard that history book and rightfully so. Same needs to be done with the bible.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>Yes-- there is no doubt at all, the Jesus-Myth was simply a formal creation from wild Folk Tales (or as we'd say today, Urban Legends) compiled and edited to sort of appear consistent.

But careful inspection shows that they are not quite as consistent as they thought: many mistakes and contradictions abound in the NT.

Most amusing, really.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#701
Mar 24, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Wait wait wait.
No sorry, you don't get to do that. You stated there was 120 people that were documented witnesses to Jesus. Okay so who are these 120 people?
How many can you name?
How many can you show secular evidence really existed?
After that where is the secular historical proof that they indeed stated they saw these magic tricks of Jesus?
If you are unable to answer this then you need to withdraw your assertion.
<quoted text>
fine, i'll with draw my assertion and leave it to the record of the Bible. now will you with draw your unsubstantiated assertion or will you produce a record to support it?

your words;
""Your silly New Testament was written decades of not centuries later by fat sweaty Romans who didn't even properly speak Aramaic!"

i just figured that you would have some proof of that.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#702
Mar 24, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Oh my goodness yes! The gospels especially do not match up or agree with each other.
That alone should give people pause in using this holy myth as a guideline for today.
Imagine if a history book said Washington was born at home, then another chapter said he was born at the bakery and then another chapter said he was born on a rooftop during taco night!
We would discard that history book and rightfully so. Same needs to be done with the bible.
<quoted text>
and just how do they not match up?
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#703
Mar 24, 2013
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes-- there is no doubt at all, the Jesus-Myth was simply a formal creation from wild Folk Tales (or as we'd say today, Urban Legends) compiled and edited to sort of appear consistent.
But careful inspection shows that they are not quite as consistent as they thought: many mistakes and contradictions abound in the NT.
Most amusing, really.
maybe you could point out 5 or 6 mistakes or contradictions from the NT.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#704
Mar 24, 2013
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
You gotta remember what this "barry" chappy means by the word "documented".
By that? He means "because I say so"...
LMAO!
and what do you mean. you have yet to post a site that agrees with you. while you have no answer for the sites i post even when i use the one site that you posted.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#705
Mar 24, 2013
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Not really.
The facts are this:
** Yesuha (and variations) was quite a common name in the Middle East, back in the first century ACE.
** The Hebrews >>were<< being occupied by a foreign power.
** Whenever that happens, it's common for "prophets" and other "holy" men to speak of overthrowing their conquerors in various ways.
** simple statistics would indicate, with the above, that at least several of these "holy" men would've been named "Yesuha" or minor variations of the same.
** Human nature being what it is, ANY story that would encourage a conquered people in their time of oppression, WOULD GET PASSED AROUND. Of course, these stories grow ever more fantastic, with each iteration of being passed along....
Fast-forward to roughly 300ACE, when Constantine needs a new religion. His selected committee of Religion-Creators needed >>something<< around which to base this new religion.
>> fabricate a new religion based on the many Folk Stories of various different "holy" men, from several different regions, but all more or less common to the area.
Since that only covered the first little bit, they also fabricated a 2nd "holy" man, Paul, who allegedly took part of the Second Half--covering the events after the first "holy" man dies.
And he HAD to die-- what better "hero" than one who was a martyr?
>> after much back-and-forth, they also decided "wouldn't it be cool, if the "martyr" wasn't really a martyr, but was a ZOMBIE instead?
----------
There you have it: the fabrication of your Jewsus Myth.
__________
Christianity: The belief that some cosmic Jewish Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
Makes perfect sense.
here you have it: the fabrication of [a] Jewsus Myth. by big bad bob

too bad no one outside of your little club is buying it.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#706
Mar 24, 2013
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
So. You freely admit that these... ahem... "120 persons" are 100% anonymous in their.... ahem ... "witness", then?
That rather eliminates any and all credibility both as to their numbers, and as to them actually being real.
<quoted text>
Pay careful attention to the reference notes in this:
" http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richar... ;
no, not 100% anonymous. scripture identifies about twenty or so of them.

it would sort of be like trying to name all the witnesses to kennedy's assassination. we only know the important ones.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#707
Mar 24, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>and just how do they not match up?
why not start with the description of the pharisees in the gospels...the earlier written gospels do not give them much power or sway, as that was the fact when it was written and at jesus' time. later gospels show them as quite powerful and against jesus as that is what was happening at the time it was written. why would they lie about the strength of the pharisees against jesus?

they were political adverts for the people of the time they were written is why...
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#708
Mar 24, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>why not start with the description of the pharisees in the gospels...the earlier written gospels do not give them much power or sway, as that was the fact when it was written and at jesus' time. later gospels show them as quite powerful and against jesus as that is what was happening at the time it was written. why would they lie about the strength of the pharisees against jesus?
they were political adverts for the people of the time they were written is why...
thank you for your opinion but how about some evidence?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#709
Mar 24, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>thank you for your opinion but how about some evidence?
ummmm..perhaps you should read your bible?
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#710
Mar 24, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>ummmm..perhaps you should read your bible?
barry wrote:
<quoted text>thank you for your opinion but how about some evidence?

what, the bucket is empty?
fatbacksx

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#711
Mar 24, 2013
 
Best time to shop is when the backstabbers are in church, donating for the pastors new bass boat and trying to figure who to screw over on monday morning.

Since: Mar 11

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#712
Mar 24, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>barry wrote:
<quoted text>thank you for your opinion but how about some evidence?
what, the bucket is empty?
You don't know your own bible? oh yeah, you already proved that.

What more evidence do you need? read your gospels and see that what i said was true.

how can there be two (or more)different versions of historical facts, especially in a supposedly divinely inspired book?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

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#713
Mar 24, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>fine, i'll with draw my assertion and leave it to the record of the Bible.
Just as soon as you produce an ORIGINAL bible?

(whatever that may mean)

You MIGHT have a case--

But, until you do? It is pretty certain that your bible is NOT THE SAME as the ... "original" (whatever that is)

Since you claim your bible is of a god?

Why on EARTH did not your god preserve the original down through history...???

Is it because your god doesn't care? Or is it because your god simply ...

.... isn't there...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

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#714
Mar 24, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>and just how do they not match up?
The fact that there are 1000's of different "bibles" out there? Through all the different various versions?

Is even more proof that there is/was NO GOD behind ANY bible.

Ever.

Thanks for playing.

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