Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?

Feb 13, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Q-Notes

President Barack Obama with Rev. Billy Graham at his house in Montreat, N.C., April 25, 2010.

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481 - 500 of 1,638 Comments Last updated May 29, 2013

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#492
Mar 5, 2013
 
Look again there are baptists from all variations of your silly church.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>this is what you responded to;
barry wrote:
<quoted text> ..."show me a history of atrocities and sin as you described in the "independent baptist" movement. we clean our own houses.
what you are doing is generally called slander."
so let me explain once again. "independent baptists" are not "southern baptists".
you posted a link show the sins and atrocities of the sbc. that is why we are independent. their mess is not our problem.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#493
Mar 5, 2013
 

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barry wrote:
<quoted text>my point exactly. there is a history of different groups who shared a basic common doctrine who never were a part of rome. they suffered and many died but would not bow or bend the knee to rome.
yes, you are correct. the history of christians slaughtering christians is astounding.(and others besides christians...whole lotta smitin' goin on!)

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#494
Mar 5, 2013
 

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barry wrote:
<quoted text>and what is your point about john newton? what do you know about him?
easier to list the Christians that supported abolition than non-Christians because we can't think of any can we?
the fact that he wrote only one short sermon against slavery when it wa clear that it would be abolished in england and then wrote the hymn.

he CONTINUED to own and invest in the ships that carried slaves to the US and garnered fgreat wealth off owning them using them to transport slaves.

i guess he really wasn't all that 'found' or 'saved' after all.
pretty song though...
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#495
Mar 5, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Look again there are baptists from all variations of your silly church.
<quoted text>
i did look again. i must say that either someone hates the southern baptists or there is a lot of evil people in the southern baptist church. i went down the list and it was a good thirty churches before i found one that was unidentified as having an affiliation and perhaps is an independent baptist church. about ten more listings and i found another one that definitely was an independent baptist church and they happened to self report and turned the violator in.
you look long and hard before you find any one let alone a pattern of this type of sin in the independent baptist churches. we clean our own house.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#496
Mar 5, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>yes, you are correct. the history of christians slaughtering christians is astounding.(and others besides christians...whole lotta smitin' goin on!)
but my point was that those who held to the independence and the autonomy of the local church body holding to the authority of the Word of God alone were the ones who ended up being persecuted and slaughtered by all the other groups who came to power. you can not find an example where they in turn ever persecuted and killed those who disagreed with them. which brings me back to my original claim that independent baptists do not persecute and kill anyone. we disagree we debate and we discuss and die if we must. it is up to God to challenge us even if he has to use an atheist and it is up to God to change them if they are wrong.
so using your example of the cathers do you think that the CC was following the example of Christ when they wiped out the whole city catholics included?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#497
Mar 5, 2013
 
Lincoln wrote:
<quoted text>
And your evidence is?
Which books have you read as evidence?
You seem to be all knowing :-)
Here:
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Here-- let me google that for you, since you seem so highly inept.
" http://lmgtfy.com/... ;

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#498
Mar 5, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>it was the church of england in one form or another. it certainly wasn't baptists of any stripe.
You idiot: baptists came FROM catholics.

You are equally guilty of all the atrocity they committed down through the years.

Because you worship at the same evil bible.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#499
Mar 5, 2013
 
barry wrote:
You think for a SECOND I'm going to believe your Lying For Jesus website?

Seriously?

Unless you have some secular scholarship? Your site is presumed to be 100% lies.

That's the way of you Liars For Jesus: you lie, because you have no truth.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#500
Mar 5, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>the Bible existed long before the cc canonized it. they just simply approved what was already being used with their own extra books added and canonized later in the 1500's.
Lie.

At best some of the OT books existed in the Jewish communities.

But none of your bible as it exists in the Genuine Bible™ existed prior to 300CE.

None.

At best, you might have fragmentary bits here and there, and perhaps an earlier version of the myths written to OTHER gods.

So, not even a little bit true is your claim.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#501
Mar 5, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>no, they didn't ignore those "parts of the bible which condoned slavery". they recognized that what was happening here in our great country had no resemblance to what was condoned in the Bible.
You are lying. Why do you LIE like this?

Even your "saint" Paul commanded slaves to OBEY their masters because your EVIL BIBLE teaches that your GOD MADE THEM SLAVES-- HOW DARE THEY QUESTION BEING A SLAVE!

That ugly theology is ALL THROUGH your NT.

Your very tiny minority of anti-slavers were just IGNORING it, as you IGNORE so much of your evil bible.

For example: have you stoned to death any back-talking children recently, as COMMANDED by your evil bible?

No?

So you choose to IGNORE this command-- even though your Jesus COMMANDED you to OBEY THEM ALL:

"I have not come to replace the commandments, but to fulfill them"

Meaning YOU SHOULD NOT BE EATING THAT BACON-AND-CHEESE.

Or be stoned to death.

Unless, of course, you choose to IGNORE 70% of your bible...
barry wrote:
in the end God sorted it out when we as a nation could not accept and do what was right. it was very costly to us.
Lie.

HUMANS sorted it out WITHOUT your evil god-- for according to the people on BOTH sides?

Your god was on BOTH sides! The pro-slavery south christians prayed to the SAME god as the anti-slave north christians.

And going by history?

Your god favored NEITHER-- as we would expect from either a monster-god, or one that simply wasn't there in the first place.

Which is it, hmmm?

Is your god a MONSTER, or is your god just not there at all?

There is no 3rd choice here, you see.

Reality itself shows us that one all too well...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#502
Mar 5, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>you're sad.
Really?

I'm not the one worshiping a monster-god who is PRO-SLAVE.

YOU are.

Who's sad again?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#503
Mar 5, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>sadly you might be right. however were they really Christians or just religion hiding behind a label?
They were as faithful as YOU are even now-- perhaps MORE so.

The problem, you see is this:

Either your god is an uncaring MONSTER, or your god isn't real.

Which is it?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#504
Mar 5, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>but my point was that those who held to the independence and the autonomy of the local church body holding to the authority of the Word of God alone were the ones who ended up being persecuted and slaughtered by all the other groups who came to power. you can not find an example where they in turn ever persecuted and killed those who disagreed with them. which brings me back to my original claim that independent baptists do not persecute and kill anyone. we disagree we debate and we discuss and die if we must. it is up to God to challenge us even if he has to use an atheist and it is up to God to change them if they are wrong.
so using your example of the cathers do you think that the CC was following the example of Christ when they wiped out the whole city catholics included?
i do not know about independent baptists per se, but the independent sects of christianity have often killed others, christians or not in the name of their god, or because the others did not believe as they did.

they weren't following the example of any peace loving person. christ was just another man, not a diety.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#505
Mar 5, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>and what is your point about john newton? what do you know about him?
easier to list the Christians that supported abolition than non-Christians because we can't think of any can we?
We will never know how many non-christians supported or were against slavery, will we?

Because in the 1850's, if you were an unbeliever, you'd be hung from he nearest tree as often as not.

Even in the cities, a non-believer had to walk very carefully-- or be murdered out of hand by some True Believer™ or other.

In any case?

There were an equal number of Genuine Christians™ using YOUR bible to justify slavery as there were trying to undermine slavery up in the north.

In fact?

There were more-- as there were strong sympathizers in the north who were pro slave.

Check the historical records of the number of times escaped slaves, who did NOT make it to Canada, were sent back by pro-slave northerners to their incarceration in the south.

All of them would've been Genuine Christians™ of course--what else? Those people were everywhere-- and actively murdered anyone who wasn't.

So, in retrospect, there were far MORE of you Genuine Christians™ supporting slavery, than there were against it.

Far, far more.

In fact, even Lincoln himself was mildly sympathetic to the idea, and considered compromise allowing the south to keep their slaves, if they would only not succeed.

His efforts weren't enough, though-- and since he won by war? He got to dictate the terms of the south's surrender.

And abolished slavery-- but it took until the late 1950's before the last of the pro-slave laws were stricken.

So strong is the love for slavery among you Genuine Christians™.

All justified in your Genuine Bible™ naturally.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#506
Mar 5, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>but my point was that those who held to the independence and the autonomy of the local church body holding to the authority of the Word of God alone were the ones who ended up being persecuted and slaughtered by all the other groups who came to power. you can not find an example where they in turn ever persecuted and killed those who disagreed with them. which brings me back to my original claim that independent baptists do not persecute and kill anyone. we disagree we debate and we discuss and die if we must. it is up to God to challenge us even if he has to use an atheist and it is up to God to change them if they are wrong.
so using your example of the cathers do you think that the CC was following the example of Christ when they wiped out the whole city catholics included?
Yet the southern versions of your quaint little cult, kept slaves.

Imagine that?
Lincoln

United States

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#507
Mar 5, 2013
 

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Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Lie.
At best some of the OT books existed in the Jewish communities.
..........
List history books you have read on any subject?
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#508
Mar 5, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>the fact that he wrote only one short sermon against slavery when it wa clear that it would be abolished in england and then wrote the hymn.
he CONTINUED to own and invest in the ships that carried slaves to the US and garnered fgreat wealth off owning them using them to transport slaves.
i guess he really wasn't all that 'found' or 'saved' after all.
pretty song though...
pretty song. did you know that you can play it on the piano by using only the black notes? interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

if it doesn't work just google "wintley Phipps Amazing Grace"

however about newton;
he became a Christian while at sea and over the next 4 years he tried to change the business by staying in the business. a lot of people try the same thing with bad churches. he took three more trips but it would seem that perhaps God intervened and got him out of the business when he suffered convulsive fits and had to quit the seas. he eventually became an ordained minister and wrote ove 200 hymns. in his later years he became a leader in the english movement to abolish the slave trade. in 1788 he wrote a pamphlet which greatly fueled the movement. he testified before the Privy Council and at parliamentary hearings. 9 months before his death in 1807 parliament voted to abolish the slave trade in the British empire.
i doubt that writing a "short sermon against slavery" twenty years before slave trading was abolished would indicate that he knew it was obvious that it would be abolished.

btw he wrote "amazing grace" in 1772 that would be before his public fight against slave trading.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#509
Mar 5, 2013
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
You idiot: baptists came FROM catholics.
You are equally guilty of all the atrocity they committed down through the years.
Because you worship at the same evil bible.
really, i suppose you have a link for that.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#510
Mar 5, 2013
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
You think for a SECOND I'm going to believe your Lying For Jesus website?
Seriously?
Unless you have some secular scholarship? Your site is presumed to be 100% lies.
That's the way of you Liars For Jesus: you lie, because you have no truth.
you know all i was doing was using a site that could explain what i was saying. would i use a catholic site?
i did notice that you didn't point out any errors.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#511
Mar 5, 2013
 

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barry wrote:
<quoted text>pretty song. did you know that you can play it on the piano by using only the black notes? interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
if it doesn't work just google "wintley Phipps Amazing Grace"
however about newton;
he became a Christian while at sea and over the next 4 years he tried to change the business by staying in the business. a lot of people try the same thing with bad churches. he took three more trips but it would seem that perhaps God intervened and got him out of the business when he suffered convulsive fits and had to quit the seas. he eventually became an ordained minister and wrote ove 200 hymns. in his later years he became a leader in the english movement to abolish the slave trade. in 1788 he wrote a pamphlet which greatly fueled the movement. he testified before the Privy Council and at parliamentary hearings. 9 months before his death in 1807 parliament voted to abolish the slave trade in the British empire.
i doubt that writing a "short sermon against slavery" twenty years before slave trading was abolished would indicate that he knew it was obvious that it would be abolished.
btw he wrote "amazing grace" in 1772 that would be before his public fight against slave trading.
he continued to own slave ships after it was illegal in the UK. how was he saved? why would he fight to abolish something he continued to do?

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