The Christian case for gay marriage

Dec 4, 2012 Full story: www.adn.com 53

Despite the increasing number of those who hold other faiths or no faith, Christians still wield substantial influence on our nation's cultural and ethical norms.

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Since: Dec 08

El Paso, TX

#33 Dec 6, 2012
Your "Bible" and your claimed "God" tells you not to judge others and to treat others with love and respect and yet you have wasted years of your life doing just the opposite right here on Topix. All because of ignorance and hatred. You actively pursue homosexuality and search them out so you can spew venom. For that you shall, according to your bible, pay most dearly.

Time to repent fella, before you get run over by a car.
Caleb wrote:
<quoted text>So judging is only OK for you, hypocrite?
Your real argument isn't with me, it is with God, who repeatedly condemns your homosexual lifestyle choice in the plainest of terms and in both Testaments. You cannot logically or factually refute that reality, and it just makes you and your horrible hate based cause look pathetic to claim that anyone who differs with you 'hates.'
I've actually made few personal comments. It is the Holy Scriptures that condemn all homosexual behavior.

Since: Dec 08

El Paso, TX

#34 Dec 6, 2012
Honey if you were my neighbor I'd move.
Caleb wrote:
<quoted text>Do you think God will hold anyone blameless that knows the truth and lets his neighbor perish in unbelief?
Jesus said, "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Do you think it is love to watch others suffer and perish?
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#36 Dec 6, 2012
Caleb wrote:
<quoted text>Did you miss what *GOD* said about your lifestyle choice?
Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 - If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood guiltiness is upon them.
Romans 1:26-27 - For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
I Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)- Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
I Timothy 1:8-11 (NASB)- "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."
This isn't a game. Your eternal future is at stake.
The reason for your explosive causticity is an underlying fear of the emotion called 'love'
.
Cowering behind your stack of bibles is the dead giveaway
.
Are you planning to lose gravity and float out into space on December 21?
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#38 Dec 7, 2012
Caleb wrote:
<quoted text>This isn't about me or your malicious fictions about me.
This is about the fact that Christianity is a Bible based religion and the Bible repeatedly condemns all homosexual behavior, repeatedly, and in the plainest of terms in both Testaments.
There is no 'Christian case' for homosexual 'marriage.'
......then you need to find a better religion instead of trying to foist it on us

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#40 Dec 7, 2012
"If Jesus ever said anything about homosexuality, it is not recorded in the Bible, even mistranslated. He did, however, speak extensively on God's unconditional love. Yet instead of dwelling on biblical love, Christians have historically been more concerned with obscure passages of Levitical cleanliness codes and Paul's misunderstood comments in Romans. Instead of focusing on the incredible injustice and hatred demonstrated by Christians and others, tying to deny homosexuals even basic civil rights, people appear more concerned with the specific homosexual acts between consenting adults who are naturally have a homosexual orientation. As James B. Nelson notes, the Bible more clearly advocates a "love ethic" rather than a "sex ethic."

I Cor 6:9, no way refers to homosexuality. The original Greek word often quoted as sexual immorality, Paul used was "porneia" which means "a harlot for hire". In Corinth in the temples of Venus, the principal deity of Corinth, where Christians went to worship, a thousand public prostitutes were kept at public expense to glorify and act as surrogates for the fertility Gods. This sex with the pagan Gods is what Paul was talking about - fornication is an admitted mistranslation and has nothing to do with gays or singles sex. This rendering reflected the bias of the translators rather than an accurate translation of Paul's words to a culture of 2000 years ago worshipping pagan sex gods.

Romans 1:26-27 mentions homosexual acts performed by people who are clearly described as heterosexual. The men in the NT patriarchal culture exerted dominance not only over women, but over younger males as well. The nature of homosexual acts in the Bible are so very different from what we know as homosexuality today that the passages have no application to today's homosexuality. Such practices as in NT times simply no longer exist. Alleged references to homosexuality in I Corinthians and I Timothy are the inventions of anti-gay translators. They are not in the original Greek texts." (Rev.Dr. Mel White) The word "homosexual" wasn't even invented until 1869. When you see it in the bible, you know it is a modern mistranslation and misinterpretation of the original texts.

"What the Bible forbids is acts of lust, rape, idolatry, violation of religious purity obligations, or pederasty, but no condemnation of homosexuality in relationships of mutual respect and love. "On the other hand, the Bible pointedly celebrates instances of same-sex emotional intimacy, a fact often overlooked by fearful homophobic readers." James B. Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theological Seminary

Yet Jesus told us:

John 13:34: A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

John 15:12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

John 15:17: This is my command: Love each other.

Matthew 7:1: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

Luke 6:37: "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Matthew 7:12: So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Meanwhile, the irrational prejudice promoted by some who claim to be Christians, continues to cause needless suffering and death, here and around the world.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#41 Dec 7, 2012
"What the Bible forbids is acts of lust, rape, idolatry, violation of religious purity obligations, or pederasty, but no condemnation of homosexuality in relationships of mutual respect and love. "On the other hand, the Bible pointedly celebrates instances of same-sex emotional intimacy, a fact often overlooked by fearful homophobic readers." James B. Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theological Seminary, New Brighton, MN

Many Christians reject the highly disputed interpretation of those few verses used to justify harming others needlessly. Many find any interpretation that results in dehumanization, suffering, and death to be inconsistent with the message of love promoted by Jesus, and therefore illegitimate. For many of us, accepting Jesus means rejecting harming others and promoting love instead. We find it hard to understand how some can get it so backward.

“There is a significant and growing consensus among biblical scholars about the few biblical texts that are often referenced as the basis for condemning same-gender loving people of God. Contemporary biblical scholarship argues strongly against this condemnation and finds a much more significant Gospel message that supports the inclusion of LGBT persons into the full life and mission of the church.”( United Church of Christ.)

Since: Dec 08

El Paso, TX

#46 Dec 7, 2012
You are bearing false witness. You know damned well that there are some gay affirming Christian denominations.

Now go repent and apologize to this list for your LIE.
Caleb wrote:
<quoted text>You chose to come and troll a thread dealing with Christianity, a religion that condemns your homosexual lifestyle choice.
The Bible's many condemnations of all homosexual behavior stand forever, so what's your point in trolling here?

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#48 Dec 7, 2012
Incomplete list of denominations and congregations that accept, embrace gay members in congregation and clergy and perform same sex marriages:
United Church of Christ
Unity School of Christianity
Most Church of the Brethren groups
many but not all Anglican, United Methodist, Northern Baptist, and Congregational groups.
Reform Judaism
Conservative Egalitarian
Judaism
Reconstructionist JUDAISM
Metropolitan Community Church
Association of Welcoming Affirming Baptists
Ecumenical Catholic Church
International Chrisitian Community Churches
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
US Episcopal Church
Global Allian of Affirming Apostolic Pentecostals
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ (Latter Day Saint denomination)
United Church of Canada
USA Presbyterian Church
In Europe, the following denominations accept embrace homosexuality in it's members clergy :
Evangelical Church in Germany
Swiss Reformed Church
Protestant Church - Netherlands
Church of Denmark
Church of Norway
Church of Sweden
Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland
Church of Iceland
The following are specific churchs that are open, accepting & embrace homosexuals as congregants and clergy :
Bethlehem Community, Faithful Companions of St. Francis religious community within Ecumenical Catholic Church (Liverpool, England)
Broadway United Methodist Church (Indianapolis, IN)
Cathedral of Hope (Dallas, Texas, USA)
Community Parish of St Bernadette Liverpool - congregation of Ecumenical Catholic Church (Liverpool, England)
Glide Memorial Church (San Francisco, California, USA)
Most Holy Redeemer Catholic Church (San Francisco, California, USA)
Grace Gospel Chapel (Seattle, Washington, USA)
Light of Love Fellowship (St. Louis, Missouri, USA)
Pullen Memorial Baptist Church (Raleigh, North Carolina, USA)
Tong-Kwang Light House Presbyterian Church (Taipei, Taiwan)
University Baptist Church (Austin, Texas, USA)
St. Paul's Anglican Church (Vancouver, BC)
Wake Forest Baptist Church (Winston-Salem, North Carolina, USA)
Walnut Creek United Methodist Church (Walnut Creek, California, USA)
Broadway Baptist Church - Ft. Worth, TX.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#52 Dec 7, 2012
TomInElPaso wrote:
You are bearing false witness. You know damned well that there are some gay affirming Christian denominations.
Now go repent and apologize to this list for your LIE.
<quoted text>
Amazing that some continue to cause suffering and death, and call it love in Jesus's name.

"Nothing dies so hare or rallies so often as intolerance." (Henry Ward Beecher)

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#54 Dec 7, 2012
Opps...
"Nothing dies so hard or rallies so often as intolerance."

Since: Jan 12

Commonwealth of Pennsylvania

#55 Dec 7, 2012
God doesn't exist. Sorry.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#56 Dec 7, 2012
"If Jesus ever said anything about homosexuality, it is not recorded in the Bible, even mistranslated. He did, however, speak extensively on God's unconditional love. Yet instead of dwelling on biblical love, Christians have historically been more concerned with obscure passages of Levitical cleanliness codes and Paul's misunderstood comments in Romans. Instead of focusing on the incredible injustice and hatred demonstrated by Christians and others, tying to deny homosexuals even basic civil rights, people appear more concerned with the specific homosexual acts between consenting adults who are naturally have a homosexual orientation. As James B. Nelson notes, the Bible more clearly advocates a "love ethic" rather than a "sex ethic."

I Cor 6:9, no way refers to homosexuality. The original Greek word often quoted as sexual immorality, Paul used was "porneia" which means "a harlot for hire". In Corinth in the temples of Venus, the principal deity of Corinth, where Christians went to worship, a thousand public prostitutes were kept at public expense to glorify and act as surrogates for the fertility Gods. This sex with the pagan Gods is what Paul was talking about - fornication is an admitted mistranslation and has nothing to do with gays or singles sex. This rendering reflected the bias of the translators rather than an accurate translation of Paul's words to a culture of 2000 years ago worshipping pagan sex gods.

Romans 1:26-27 mentions homosexual acts performed by people who are clearly described as heterosexual. The men in the NT patriarchal culture exerted dominance not only over women, but over younger males as well. The nature of homosexual acts in the Bible are so very different from what we know as homosexuality today that the passages have no application to today's homosexuality. Such practices as in NT times simply no longer exist. Alleged references to homosexuality in I Corinthians and I Timothy are the inventions of anti-gay translators. They are not in the original Greek texts." (Rev.Dr. Mel White) The word "homosexual" wasn't even invented until 1869. When you see it in the bible, you know it is a modern mistranslation and misinterpretation of the original texts.

"What the Bible forbids is acts of lust, rape, idolatry, violation of religious purity obligations, or pederasty, but no condemnation of homosexuality in relationships of mutual respect and love. "On the other hand, the Bible pointedly celebrates instances of same-sex emotional intimacy, a fact often overlooked by fearful homophobic readers." James B. Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theological Seminary

Yet Jesus told us:

John 13:34: A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

John 15:12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

John 15:17: This is my command: Love each other.

Matthew 7:1: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

Luke 6:37: "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Matthew 7:12: So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Meanwhile, the irrational prejudice promoted by some who claim to be Christians, continues to cause needless suffering and death, here and around the world. How sad they do it in His name.

Since: Mar 07

United States

#60 Dec 7, 2012
Caleb wrote:
The argument that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality in the gospels is misleading and illogical for at least five reasons:
.........
David, you aren't a true follower of Christ, so why keep posting?

You aren't going to drive a single gay person into the demented closet you inhabit, but I'm sure you have driven many way from Christianity.

Since: Mar 07

United States

#61 Dec 7, 2012
Caleb wrote:
<quoted text>God speaks for Himself on this issue, plainly and irrefutably:
Christian Doctrine is defined by the Bible:
Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 - If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood guiltiness is upon them.
........
You are a hypocritical little cuss, aren't you?

Provide any links, even ONE link - ANY proof at all that ANY christian today follows the Holiness Code in Leviticus, and then come back and play.

Like I said, it's all about driving gay people away from God with you, it's it? Any old lie will do.

Since: Mar 07

United States

#62 Dec 7, 2012
Caleb wrote:
I thought you might be interested in knowing that the Metropolitan Community Cult, listed above, has lost about 2/3 of its membership:
.....
LOL.

One question for you. Is a baptism conducted in an MCC church accepted by other recognized Christian denominations?

What about the UCC, with it's many "O & A" churches? Are their baptisms considered valid?

If so, do you know what that means?
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#64 Dec 8, 2012
Caleb wrote:
<quoted text>So you have positively no clue about what Leviticus means to Christians today. I understand, since you don't have a clue about the Bible in general or Christianity.
Explain away these New Testament condemnations of all homosexual behavior, servant of Satan:
Romans 1:26-27 - For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
I Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)- Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
I Timothy 1:8-11 (NASB)- "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."
You really want to lead homosexual to the hell that is promised those who don't repent, don't you.
This is why you're lonely and unloved

Since: Jan 12

Quitman, AR

#65 Dec 8, 2012
Those of you who deny God's reality and the truthful warnings in Holy scripture are in for a rude awakening. It is God who proclaims the death penalty upon Gays. Do you dare accuse Him of Hate Crime? Once you draw your last breath on earth and close your eyes in death, the next time you open your eyes, you will be looking right into the face of the God you denied exists....with unmeasurable regret. Right now is the opportunity you have to repent and accept Christ as the only way you will come into the Father's presence with open arms. don't waste another moment of your life. Christ died for you so you could live forever with Him...not separated from Him.
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#67 Dec 8, 2012
SP42P57 wrote:
Those of you who deny God's reality and the truthful warnings in Holy scripture are in for a rude awakening. It is God who proclaims the death penalty upon Gays. Do you dare accuse Him of Hate Crime? Once you draw your last breath on earth and close your eyes in death, the next time you open your eyes, you will be looking right into the face of the God you denied exists....with unmeasurable regret. Right now is the opportunity you have to repent and accept Christ as the only way you will come into the Father's presence with open arms. don't waste another moment of your life. Christ died for you so you could live forever with Him...not separated from Him.
How did you escape?
What

Aldrich, MO

#69 Dec 8, 2012
Caleb wrote:
The argument that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality in the gospels is misleading and illogical for at least five reasons:
1) The gospels are not more authoritative than those books of the Bible that condemn homosexual behavior. All authors of Scripture were inspired by God’s Holy Spirit.6
2) The gospels are not comprehensive. Some of the Bible’s most important teachings—the explanation of spiritual gifts, the Priesthood of Christ, the doctrine of man’s old and new nature—appear in other books of the Bible.
3) The gospels do not claim to be a complete account of Jesus’ life or teachings. Sections of Jesus’ life are not discussed in the gospels and we cannot be certain that Jesus never spoke about homosexual behavior.
4) Scripture teaches that Jesus kept all the Law and affirmed all that the Law and the Prophets taught.7 Undoubtedly, this would have included the affirmation of committed, monogamous male-female marriage and an unwavering condemnation of homosexual behavior. Given that all first century orthodox Jews would have held to this standard, the question of affirming homosexuality would not have been open to discussion in Jesus’ day.
5) Jesus clearly referred to heterosexuality as a standard. He specifically described God's created intent for human sexuality:“But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."8
In sum, the pro-gay revisionist theology threatens to substantially alter the Christian church and biblical doctrine. When God is said to sanction what He plainly forbids, then a serious heresy is unfolding before us in bold fashion. Confronting this false doctrine lovingly – but firmly – is necessary because it demands that we confirm professing Christians in their sin, when we are biblically commanded to do just the opposite.
http://www.pureintimacy.org/piArticles/A00000...
And add to that the fact it was Jesus Christ Himself who gave the laws to Moses and He Himself who destroyed Sodom for it homosexuallity!

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#70 Dec 8, 2012
fr "caleb", really known as DAVID MOORE FROM PEKIN IL:

>...Did you miss what *GOD* said about your lifestyle choice?...<

There is NOTHING in the Bible about glbt people, and it is NOT a "choice", davy boy. One is BORN gay or straight.

Get the true FACTS about homosexuality, and quit shoving your nose where it clearly does NOT belong. Consult a secular therapist for your anger management and homophobia issues. Your county mental health association can direct you to a REAL therapist, not some nutbag who got their "degree" off the Internet or from some boiler room operation.

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