Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash if Gay Marriage Passes

Jan 7, 2013 Full story: NBC Chicago 17,567

Leaders of several Chicago-area African American churches on Monday urged state lawmakers to vote against pending legislation that would allow same-sex marriage in Illinois.

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heartandmind

Moline, IL

#8283 Aug 16, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
No "group of people" were excluded to begin with. Both men and women have always been included in the recognition of marriage, it's their union which forms the definitional foundation of marriage. To remove one sex from that definition, would be to redefine marriage.
.
<quoted text>
There is also a church that performs plural marriage ceremonies too...are they being denied the right to marry couples too?
you're absolutely wrong and you know it. it's been explained to you since your first flurry of posts on this topic, so i won't bother repeating the same information again. there's no point in being redundent because it just doesn't sink in with you and bi.
heartandmind

Moline, IL

#8284 Aug 16, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>was there even marriage before religion?
yes, barry, marriage predates religion. maybe the ritual may not be familiar to us modern humans, but the state of being married has been around since humankind started realizing that they could own property and assets.
heartandmind

Moline, IL

#8285 Aug 16, 2013
The AssTroll Stopper wrote:
<quoted text>
That's what all the closet Queers, like you, say. Don't blame you, if I was a Fagg@t, like you are, I'd want to hide it also. Don't kid yourself Fagg@t Retard, you're no where near as tough as you tend to believe. Just a big goofy retard.
closet?

bwahahaah.....pot, meet kettle.

the lady doth protest too much.
bob lewis

AOL

#8286 Aug 16, 2013
Vance1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know if Rand Paul and the Libertarian party will ever win.
Too late. The Extremists appear to have won their War on traditional America. Church leaders better pipe down. In Egypt the Extremists attacked and torched over 30 Churches yesterday. Each day more and more Americans are choosing to surrender to Big Brother rather than stand up for their values.
heartandmind

Moline, IL

#8287 Aug 16, 2013
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
Pietro, can you indicate a compelling state interest served by preventing a homosexual from marrying someone that they love who happens to be of the same sex that would render your position remotely valid, and hint that you have even an iota of intelligence?
what makes you think he's any smarter than the attornies that showed up for his side that couldn't show a valid state interest beyond "yeah, but we're offended".

LOL

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#8288 Aug 16, 2013
bob lewis wrote:
Each day more and more Americans are choosing to surrender to Big Brother rather than stand up for their values.
This statement doesn't even make sense. Denying Americans equality under the law is much more of a big brother issue than allowing equality for same sex couples to marry.

How does allowing same sex marriage in any way impact you or your rights if you choose not to enter into such a union?

Your logic is highly flawed.
bob lewis

AOL

#8289 Aug 16, 2013
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
This statement doesn't even make sense. Denying Americans equality under the law is much more of a big brother issue than allowing equality for same sex couples to marry.
How does allowing same sex marriage in any way impact you or your rights if you choose not to enter into such a union?
Your logic is highly flawed.
Gay Marriage is fine with me. Big Brother is using
Gay Marriage as an excuse to attack Christians. If not Gay Marriage it would be something else. Religion is ultimately outlawed in most all Totalitarian Dictatorships from China, North Korea, to the old USSR. Brush up on your Orwelle. It is the roadmap for what is happening in America.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#8290 Aug 16, 2013
bob lewis wrote:
Gay Marriage is fine with me. Big Brother is using
Gay Marriage as an excuse to attack Christians. If not Gay Marriage it would be something else. Religion is ultimately outlawed in most all Totalitarian Dictatorships from China, North Korea, to the old USSR. Brush up on your Orwelle. It is the roadmap for what is happening in America.
one could make this argument, but it would be pretty inept.

How is gay marriage being used as "as an excuse to attack Christians"? Be specific.
bob lewis

AOL

#8291 Aug 16, 2013
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
one could make this argument, but it would be pretty inept.
How is gay marriage being used as "as an excuse to attack Christians"? Be specific.
This is pretty simple stuff.
Many basic tenents of Religious groups believe Marriage only applies to a Union between a Man and a Woman so the Religious Groups must abandon their principles and values as Big Brother demands. Big Brother no longer values the Separation of Church and State UNLESS Churches embrace the Progressive political point of view on Social Issues. It's a "totalitarian govt" thing.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#8293 Aug 16, 2013
bob lewis wrote:
<quoted text>
This is pretty simple stuff.
Many basic tenents of Religious groups believe Marriage only applies to a Union between a Man and a Woman so the Religious Groups must abandon their principles and values as Big Brother demands. Big Brother no longer values the Separation of Church and State UNLESS Churches embrace the Progressive political point of view on Social Issues. It's a "totalitarian govt" thing.
Keeping kosher is fundamental to conservative Judaism. Yet we somehow manage to eat cheeseburgers and ham subs without destroying Jews' religious beliefs.

The problem with the kind of Christians you're talking about is that they can't STAND the idea that someone doesn't do what they say.[I have my own theory that this comes from the self-styled Christians own lack of good character and/or faith in his beliefs. But that is a whole new topic.]

Personally, I think we should endeavor on a short but sharp attack against these cry-baby Christians just so they could learn what true oppression feels like. It might even help them become somewhat empathetic with the groups that they spend most of their time oppressing.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#8294 Aug 16, 2013
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
one could make this argument, but it would be pretty inept.
Only if you tried. You are consistently inept.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#8295 Aug 16, 2013
bob lewis wrote:
This is pretty simple stuff.
Many basic tenents of Religious groups believe Marriage only applies to a Union between a Man and a Woman so the Religious Groups must abandon their principles and values as Big Brother demands.
This is not even a strong rationalization. How specifically does allowing gay marriage infringe upon the free exercise of religion. Those who believe homosexuality is a sin, or is amoral, still ahve the right to refuse to enter into such a union. That others choose to marry someone of the same sex does not infringe upon your religious freedom.
bob lewis wrote:
Big Brother no longer values the Separation of Church and State UNLESS Churches embrace the Progressive political point of view on Social Issues. It's a "totalitarian govt" thing.
Actually, you are arguing against the separation of church and state when you imply that civil marriage should follow religious definitions and norms. Respecting established religion in that way is unconstitutional.

In no way is allowing equal protection of the law totalitarian. In fact, denying same sex couples equal protection of the law to marry is more of a big government move, because the government is actively intervening in the lives of citizens and denying them rights. Allowing same sex marriage does not impact upon your freedom to believe and worship as you choose.

You may feel homosexuality or gay marriage are wrong, but you may not use the law to project your religious moral beliefs onto others. Doing so violates the separation of church and state, and violates the free exercise of religion of anyone who hold religious beliefs that are not in alignment with your own.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#8296 Aug 16, 2013
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
How specifically does allowing gay marriage infringe upon the free exercise of religion.
Think Lexington, MA.
Think gay pride days in public schools.
Think gay pride parades on the main streets of our cities.
Think about the pretense of bullying so that gays can access our children, gay marriage just makes this easier.
heartandmind

Moline, IL

#8298 Aug 16, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Think Lexington, MA.
Think gay pride days in public schools.
Think gay pride parades on the main streets of our cities.
Think about the pretense of bullying so that gays can access our children, gay marriage just makes this easier.
and none of those examples PREVENT you or anyone else from having a "church pride" day in your community, a "church pride" parade on the main streets of your communities.

bullying, no matter the reason or form, is absolutely wrong in no uncertain terms. if you think it's OK to allow your kid to tease, torment or bully a teen that's gay or even just looks gay (whatever that is), then their blood is on your hands. i work with a group through my church that councils teens that are or have attempted suicide - my pastor and the clinical psychologist in our church that heads up this program ask me to assist when there's a gay teen they're dealing with. i've seen too many teens treated poorly by their fellow classmates using the excuse of their religion...and seen the results of that treatment. you may not want to hear about it and may not want to accept the responsibility for it, but it lies on the shoulders of the parents that teach their kids and themselves, for treating gay people in this manner - using their bible as a blunt instrument to beat up a person's psyche (either young or adult).

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#8299 Aug 16, 2013
lides wrote:
... you may not use the law to project your religious moral beliefs onto others....
But there's no problem projecting your secular moral beliefs onto others; that's perfectly OK. Just keep your religious morality out of sight, or we'll sue.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#8302 Aug 16, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
But there's no problem projecting your secular moral beliefs onto others; that's perfectly OK. Just keep your religious morality out of sight, or we'll sue.
Brian, I am not projecting morals onto you, I am advocating for equal protection of the laws for all.

You have no right to discriminate against someone because of your religious views, the constitution prevents religious views form being projected onto others through law (which would violate their free exercise), and allowing same sex couples equal protection of the law to marry in no way violates your free exercise.

You are still free to worship the religion of your choosing. You are still free not to marry someone of the same sex.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#8303 Aug 16, 2013
heartandmind wrote:
and none of those examples PREVENT you or anyone else from having a "church pride" day in your community, a "church pride" parade on the main streets of your communities.
Wondering is really nothing more than a mindless troll. They really aren't worth your time or effort, unless you want to pick up a troll stalker.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#8304 Aug 16, 2013
heartandmind wrote:
<quoted text>
1. and none of those examples PREVENT you or anyone else from having a "church pride" day in your community, a "church pride" parade on the main streets of your communities.
2. bullying, no matter the reason or form, is absolutely wrong in no uncertain terms.
3. if you think it's OK to allow your kid to tease, torment or bully a teen that's gay or even just looks gay (whatever that is), then their blood is on your hands.
4. i work with a group through my church that councils teens that are or have attempted suicide -
5. my pastor and the clinical psychologist in our church that heads up this program ask me to assist when there's a gay teen they're dealing with.
6. i've seen too many teens treated poorly by their fellow classmates using the excuse of their religion...and seen the results of that treatment.
7. you may not want to hear about it and may not want to accept the responsibility for it, but it lies on the shoulders of the parents that teach their kids and themselves, for treating gay people in this manner - using their bible as a blunt instrument to beat up a person's psyche (either young or adult).
1. I've been waiting for straight pride events. I'm told that would be bigotry.
2. Agreed. But it isn't a good excuse to brainwash kids and to force homosexual issues on those that want no part of it.
3. See #2.
4. Then you know that the overwhelming majority aren't gay.
5. I bet you're not very busy.
6. I have never seen a kid picked on by anyone claiming religion was their reason.
7. Parents don't teach their kids to hate or to pick on gays. If you believe otherwise, you're an idiot.
heartandmind

Moline, IL

#8305 Aug 16, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>But there's no problem projecting your secular moral beliefs onto others; that's perfectly OK. Just keep your religious morality out of sight, or we'll sue.
bi, you've said you're not even a christian. sounds like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. do you even know what you are?

and you wonder why i call you bi. LOL.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#8306 Aug 16, 2013
Huh wrote:
<quoted text>
How so??? No one is gonna make you be gay or even like same sex marriage....JUST HAVE TO ALLOW IT.....anyway in next 20 years or less it will be legal in all 50 states and you old Nazi pigs will be dead so who cares what you old kkk types thinks.
Apparently, some in Owatonna don't think a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

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