Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash...

Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash if Gay Marriage Passes

There are 17552 comments on the NBC Chicago story from Jan 7, 2013, titled Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash if Gay Marriage Passes. In it, NBC Chicago reports that:

Leaders of several Chicago-area African American churches on Monday urged state lawmakers to vote against pending legislation that would allow same-sex marriage in Illinois.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at NBC Chicago.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#549 Jan 11, 2013
eJohn wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, considering that tradition or "we've ALWAYS done it that way" aren't reasons to support denying people equal civil rights, I take it that you would support marriage equality for same-sex couples?
Women never had the right to vote taken away from them, yet it is not recognized that they DO have a constitutional right to vote, no?
And African Americans never had freedom taken away from them (those that were born into slavery, anyway), and yet we no longer buy and sell them in public slave auctions, right?
Did you know that civil marriage brings with it over 1,100 rights, protections, and responsibilities that are denied any unmarried couple?
1,100 rights, protections and responsibilities? No, I had no idea. Where is this listed and I will read about it. That's pretty overwhelming.

idk how I feel about it quite honestly. There was a time- a few years ago when I would've shrugged and said let gays marry- whatever. I used to think that gays were all just born gay and now I think it's a combination of some are born that way and some choose. I don't think that you or a lot of people like you have an agenda- except that you want the rights you speak of. I think there may be agendas with this however-- because frankly I think there have been agendas with many things that on the surface looked "fair" or even noble and did have these things attached- but more came with it. I think this even about 1960s feminism.

I am a very traditional person. On the other hand I don't try to push off stuff on others or make them live like I do. To change something as long term as the laws of marriage makes me uncomfortable at this point.

How would you feel about just something called a "gay union" that gave you the same rights you talk about but wasn't called marriage?
sickofit

Austin, MN

#550 Jan 11, 2013
sONE wrote:
<quoted text>
1,100 rights, protections and responsibilities? No, I had no idea. Where is this listed and I will read about it. That's pretty overwhelming.
idk how I feel about it quite honestly. There was a time- a few years ago when I would've shrugged and said let gays marry- whatever. I used to think that gays were all just born gay and now I think it's a combination of some are born that way and some choose. I don't think that you or a lot of people like you have an agenda- except that you want the rights you speak of. I think there may be agendas with this however-- because frankly I think there have been agendas with many things that on the surface looked "fair" or even noble and did have these things attached- but more came with it. I think this even about 1960s feminism.
I am a very traditional person. On the other hand I don't try to push off stuff on others or make them live like I do. To change something as long term as the laws of marriage makes me uncomfortable at this point.
How would you feel about just something called a "gay union" that gave you the same rights you talk about but wasn't called marriage?
How would you feel if you had to have somthing else not the same as others?????
Carol

Orem, UT

#552 Jan 11, 2013
eJohn wrote:
<quoted text>
Then why do you keep apologizing?
<quoted text>
And if you're going to continue your obsession with running your and your children's lives by statistics and other people's beliefs, without regard for what really IS best for them, given the circumstances you're all in, why NOT just head on down to the homeless shelter and pick up some guy and have him live with you?
If you really believe that simply having an adult male living in your house will automatically and magically make everything better for your children, then I would say that you're being a bad mother for not doing it, right?
Oh, yeah, he might be a mentally ill alcoholic that will spend his days drunk and beating you and your children, but hey, he's an adult and he's got a penis. Isn't that all that matters?? Isn't that what you're saying?
<quoted text>
Right. Of course. But you're advocating that children in need be denied loving homes because those homes don't live up to the father/mother model that YOU YOURSELF are NOT supplying to YOUR OWN children. Does that not make you a hypocrite???
Where do you get off demanding that other families be denied equal treatment because they don't live up to a standard that you, yourself, are not living up to??
<quoted text>
Only because you believe that. Again, you need to get out of your house and learn about the world. It's FULL of well-adjusted adults that were raised by single parents. Your obsession with parental gender is the biggest problem your children have, not the lack of a father.
<quoted text>
Tell that to the 70% of children in this country being raised by single parents.
Again, you're forcing your own prejudices onto other people because YOU don't feel adequate. That's not right and you WILL harm your children if you don't get over such irrational thoughts.
Hopefully you're very young...

I'm not apologizing, I'm stating reality...

A father/mother home is the best model, the standard, the norm...

all other models are abnormal but some have outperformed the standard father/mother model...

Unless abused children crave mama and daddy...like it or not....they crave normalcy, which is the father/mother model...

Now children also will adjust to what they've experienced.... Yet when they see kids in the father/mother model family, they feel cheated...

Children without a mother will usually wonder what it would have been like to have a mother... Boys are especially close to their mothers , I can't imagine my son without having a mommy to crawl into her lap....

Same with fathers, my daughter wouldn't eat her dinner until her daddy came home, then she'd eat off his plate. Daddies are extremely important in the lives of esp their little girls.

You're in full agenda mode claiming that I said single parents can't raise children...simply because I said that the father/mother model is the norm the standard.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#554 Jan 11, 2013
sickofit wrote:
<quoted text>
How would you feel if you had to have somthing else not the same as others?????
Are you talking about a set of rights in general or that it was the same rights but under a different "title"-- such as I asked about "gay union" instead of marriage.
sickofit

Austin, MN

#555 Jan 11, 2013
sONE wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you talking about a set of rights in general or that it was the same rights but under a different "title"-- such as I asked about "gay union" instead of marriage.
Blacks could ride the bus eyars ago just in the back...Blacks could go to movies years ago but through there own door and in the back.....GET THE PICTURE BIGOT?????????

Lets say you were told you could not marry who you wanted but could get civil union with them..........THAT OK WITH YOU???????
Carol

Orem, UT

#556 Jan 11, 2013
eJohn wrote:
<quoted text>
What a load of crap.
How's this?? If one parent is abusive to one child and spoils and favors the other, it's not a big deal as long as the other parent is abusive to the one being spoiled and is loving and wonderful to the one the other is abusing.
I know you don't believe that that's what you're saying, but it IS what you'rep saying. You're making excuses for BAD PARENTING by claiming that as long as there are parents of both genders in the house, all will be well.
Again, you NEED to get out of your house and learn how to be a decent parent and quit being obsessed with sexist myths and misinformation.
Maybe you're never been around heterosexual men but they are usually different from women...

Men spoils their little girls and are more demanding of their sons....

While women spoil their sons and are more demanding of their daughters....

Not in all cases but in enough for it to be considered a normal occurrence.

Which is why the father/mother model is best....

The kids get to see an adult male and female up close and personal...they get to watch examples...

Of their particular gender...

whereas in the other models one gender is absent.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#557 Jan 11, 2013
sickofit wrote:
<quoted text>
Blacks could ride the bus eyars ago just in the back...Blacks could go to movies years ago but through there own door and in the back.....GET THE PICTURE BIGOT?????????
Lets say you were told you could not marry who you wanted but could get civil union with them..........THAT OK WITH YOU???????
The word MARRIAGE is cultural and religious and it is a hot button issue for many to CHANGE that. The other person I posted to said they were concerned with RIGHTS-- so I asked them if they could have all those rights- in a new kind of union for same sex people- since there has just never been a legal recognized union for them at all, why wouldn't it work?

Yes, I think if I was gay this would be OK with me.
Carol

Orem, UT

#558 Jan 11, 2013
eJohn wrote:
<quoted text>
Or reality.
Ask ANY kid being raised by one, two, or more loving parents, regardless of the gender of those parents, if they would rather be raised in a father/mother family. Without fail, those children will tell you they want to stay with their loving parents.
To the people that are obsessed with parental gender(s), I've always wondered--do you have sex with your kids?? That's the one and only situation I can think of where the gender of a parent would make a difference. Beyond that, I can't for the life of me figure out how a parent's gender would matter.
I was raised in a two-parent home with one mother and one father. NOT ONCE did the gender of either of my parents make one bit of difference to me. Never, ever.
And every kid I've ever asked has always said the same thing--kids don't care about gender. They only care that they're loved and cared for.
I understand that you're pushing same sex unions but honestly do you need to be outrageous...

Unless children have been abused...

Kids love mama and daddy ..

And they definitely want both in their lives because its a natural part of life.

They come from a man and a woman....

Haha, what are you going to do when these inquisitive kids start asking you where they came from...

and where's mommy or where's daddy?

Please stop being ridiculous.
Carol

Orem, UT

#559 Jan 11, 2013
Samatha wrote:
Gay Group who call themselves "Angry Queers’: Christians are ‘scum,’ deserve ‘hammers through their windows’
Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:01 EST
Comments (166)
Tags: angry queers, hate crimes, mars hill church, oregon
Warning: This story includes vulgar language as quoted in an e-mail from an extremist homosexual rights group.
PORTLAND, OREGON, April 27, 2012, The group that allegedly smashed up a Portland church hopes its “small act of vengeance will strike fear into the hearts of” Christian leaders who teach traditional sexual morality, according to an e-mail message the group released to the public.
A group calling itself “Angry Queers” has claimed responsibility for throwing baseball-sized rocks through nine church windows in Portland’s Mars Hill Church, including two 100-year-old stained glass panes.
Two versions of the e-mail have been sent to the media, one longer and slightly more incendiary than the other, but both apparently originating from the same group. In the longer version, the LGBT activists state they destroyed church property in the names of several local transgender people who have died, and “all other trans women” whose deaths they blame on “this cissexist, femmephobic, racist, and transmisogynistic society.”
“Churches are a major contributor to the culture that deems trans women of color to be disposable, as not worth keeping alive,” the statement read.
The “brand of Christianity” taught by Mark Driscoll, pastor of the largest Mars Hill Church in Seattle,“crusades against the ‘feminization’ of Jesus,” the e-mail stated.“We angry queers are not fans of Jesus, but we have a problem with anyone who has a problem with femmes.”
The e-mail, which is peppered with foul language, berates the Q Center, a local LGBT activist organization, for engaging in a dialogue with the Mars Hill’s leadership.“What we have to say to the Q Center is this: F—K YOU, you don’t represent us. You are disgusting traitors who prioritize social peace and the bourgeois aspirations of rich white cis gay people over the more pressing survival needs of more marginalized queers.”
“F—k dialog with people who want us dead,” the e-mail read.“The only dialog we need with scum like Mars Hill is hammers through their windows.”
“We hope this small act of vengeance will strike some fear into the hearts of all of Mars Hill’s pastors, and warm the hearts of our friends and comrades (known or unknown). It may not get better, but we can certainly get even,” it concludes.
Click “like” if you want to defend true marriage.
The local Fox affiliate, KPTV, sent a local homosexual media outlet a copy of the e-mail they received, which is missing several of the communication’s most risible phrases.
However, a reporter at competing KOIN also received a copy of the e-mail. KOIN’s coverage quotes words found only in the longer e-mail.
The longer version names several dead transgender people by first and last name, then references them by first name later. The shorter version only includes the reference to their first names, which may authenticate the longer and more inflammatory version sent to KOIN.
The homosexual media outlet that obtained the KPTV version of the e-mail stated officials at the Fox station said the shorter version is the one they received. The blogger believes “the email’s author(s) submitted a somewhat different version to different outlets.”
Neither media outlet reported the message’s invocations of violence against traditional Christians, which appeared in both versions.
The long form of the e-mail has also appeared on several left-wing websites in the area.
Even before the text of the e-mail had become public, Chuck Currie, a minister in the United Church of Christ (UCC), wrote,“I call on the Portland Police to treat this as a hate crime against all people of faith, regardless of religious tradition or belief.”
Wow didn't know stuff like this was taking place, sad.
sickofit

Austin, MN

#560 Jan 11, 2013
sONE wrote:
<quoted text>
The word MARRIAGE is cultural and religious and it is a hot button issue for many to CHANGE that. The other person I posted to said they were concerned with RIGHTS-- so I asked them if they could have all those rights- in a new kind of union for same sex people- since there has just never been a legal recognized union for them at all, why wouldn't it work?
Yes, I think if I was gay this would be OK with me.
The point is once the government offered a civil contract all people should be able to get same equal contract....I SAY GET THE RELIGOUS BS OUT OF IT AND CALL ALL MARRAIGES CIVIL UNIONS AND END THIS AND MAKE IT EQUAL FOR ALL....
Carol

Orem, UT

#561 Jan 11, 2013
Kids are always going to want to know where they came from....

Then they're going to want to know their biological mother our father...

Whichever parent they're missing...

There are adoptive kids who loved their adoptive parents but felt compelled to find

Their birth parents....

I'm sorry kids are inquisitive and will want to know where they came from....

and who is their biological mama or daddy....

They come from that and those cravings will never go away.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#562 Jan 11, 2013
sickofit wrote:
<quoted text>
The point is once the government offered a civil contract all people should be able to get same equal contract....I SAY GET THE RELIGOUS BS OUT OF IT AND CALL ALL MARRAIGES CIVIL UNIONS AND END THIS AND MAKE IT EQUAL FOR ALL....
It would be equal as far as rights under government law. I thought this was the concern??????

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#563 Jan 11, 2013
Carol wrote:
Children without a mother will usually wonder what it would have been like to have a mother...
Children also wonder what it would have been like to be born rich. Or noble. Or an Olympic athlete. None of those musings invalidate the life they actually have.
sickofit

Austin, MN

#564 Jan 11, 2013
sONE wrote:
<quoted text>
It would be equal as far as rights under government law. I thought this was the concern??????
Not just rights...Blacks had rights to go on bus...bad had to sit in back.....NOT SAME IS NOT EQUAL......

Lets say they said to you that you are not a human but we willg ive yous ame rights as one....THAT OK??? OK TO BE CALLED SOMETHING YOUR NOT OR DONT WANT TO BE AS LONG AS EQUAL RIGHTS??????????
straight shooter

Barre, VT

#565 Jan 11, 2013
Carol wrote:
Kids are always going to want to know where they came from....
Then they're going to want to know their biological mother our father...
Whichever parent they're missing...
There are adoptive kids who loved their adoptive parents but felt compelled to find
Their birth parents....
I'm sorry kids are inquisitive and will want to know where they came from....
and who is their biological mama or daddy....
They come from that and those cravings will never go away.
and while the gays will claim biological relations are not important, they are meanwhile salivating over the possibility of being related to their own child through science fiction like science...

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#566 Jan 11, 2013
Carol wrote:
Men spoils their little girls and are more demanding of their sons....
While women spoil their sons and are more demanding of their daughters....
Obviously, we had a dysfunctional family. I have often mused what it would be like to have a mother or father who spoiled me. Lord know, plenty of my friends' families did.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#567 Jan 11, 2013
sONE wrote:
<quoted text>
The word MARRIAGE is cultural and religious and it is a hot button issue for many to CHANGE that. The other person I posted to said they were concerned with RIGHTS-- so I asked them if they could have all those rights- in a new kind of union for same sex people- since there has just never been a legal recognized union for them at all, why wouldn't it work?
Yes, I think if I was gay this would be OK with me.
This was the idea of civil unions in Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, and Washington. What we found out in every case was that people treated civil union partners differently than married partners--if they were aware at all of civil unions. That's why those states have all converted civil unions into marriages.
Carol

Orem, UT

#568 Jan 11, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Children also wonder what it would have been like to be born rich. Or noble. Or an Olympic athlete. None of those musings invalidate the life they actually have.
lol, most people aren't born into wealth but all are born from the seed of a man and the egg of a woman....

So unless they're raised away from kids in heterosexual families....

Many will crave the opposite gender parent...some will become angry with their homosexual parents because of this void.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#569 Jan 11, 2013
sONE wrote:
<quoted text>
1,100 rights, protections and responsibilities? No, I had no idea. Where is this listed and I will read about it. That's pretty overwhelming.
idk how I feel about it quite honestly. There was a time- a few years ago when I would've shrugged and said let gays marry- whatever. I used to think that gays were all just born gay and now I think it's a combination of some are born that way and some choose. I don't think that you or a lot of people like you have an agenda- except that you want the rights you speak of. I think there may be agendas with this however-- because frankly I think there have been agendas with many things that on the surface looked "fair" or even noble and did have these things attached- but more came with it. I think this even about 1960s feminism.
I am a very traditional person. On the other hand I don't try to push off stuff on others or make them live like I do. To change something as long term as the laws of marriage makes me uncomfortable at this point.
How would you feel about just something called a "gay union" that gave you the same rights you talk about but wasn't called marriage?
This is really very simple.

I'm married, because I chose to get married. Nobody else gets to decide what to call it.

This is America, a country based on freedom and equality. In order to restrict freedom, you had better have an excellent reason, not just your feelings or your level of discomfort with what you perceive to be "changing the laws of marriage."

When black people were allowed into white country club, the country club was still a country club. The only thing "changed" was more people were admitted. But it in itself did not change.

You can be uncomfortable all you want, but that can't be reason enough to deny me my rights. And if we wait around for everyone to get comfortable, then more and more honorable gay spouses pass away each day without getting their just due. What a shame. And you think discomfort is worth that? I sure don't.

The point is, in this country, you can think what you want, but the law can't be biased. Everyone is equal, including gay people, and if we petition to be included in marriage, then that has to happen. No harm is caused, and that's a fact.

It is utterly selfish and unAmerican to play with someone else's life while others are allowed as much time as they need to "get comfortable." Should we have waited for more people to get comfortable with women voting? Or with interracial marriage? Or was denying those rights one extra day an injustice?
Carol

Orem, UT

#570 Jan 11, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Children also wonder what it would have been like to be born rich. Or noble. Or an Olympic athlete. None of those musings invalidate the life they actually have.
Actually your tone is why mothers are needed as parenting partners with fathers and vice versa....

Because you don't seem as if you could cope with a child asking where's their mommy and rejecting you...

Kids have a habit of asking the same question 1000000s of times.

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