Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash if Gay Marriage Passes

Jan 7, 2013 Read more: NBC Chicago 17,562

Leaders of several Chicago-area African American churches on Monday urged state lawmakers to vote against pending legislation that would allow same-sex marriage in Illinois.

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“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#2107 Feb 5, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Ad hominem is logical fallacy. I'm not interested in your personal life, I care about the affects of new marriage law on everybody.
Same sex marriage would harm gays already married by incentive's for same sex remarriage where previous, only marriage incentive was male/female marriage. In that way, same sex marriage is ex post facto law; gays have already married under traditional marriage standard, and violates the Constitution's prohibition on ex post facto incrimination.
LOL!

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#2108 Feb 5, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
There is the introduction of a new entitlement group, ether taxes go up so everybody get's the same share or the pie get's sliced thinner. The social privileges of marriage would change with same sex marriage, since any couple could call themselves 'married'. Singles would decline with the legalization of same sex marriage, and lose a productive but sometimes misdirected voice.
Gay rights are human rights, to be free to live with dignity; not the special right to redefine marriage for everyone, to suit sexual predilection. Bad precedent.
Studies have shown that same-sex marriage would actually save the government money. Society's support for marriage is based solely not on wanting to do nice things for couples who have kids. It's not even based solely on the self-interest of the majority of Americans who are or have been married, with or without kids. Society supports marriage because stable families also stabilize society.

Support marriage for same-sex couples for all of the same reasons you support marriage for opposite sex couples. Or oppose it for the same reasons. But be consistent.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#2109 Feb 5, 2013
Tony C wrote:
Then you'll have to change some other things. For example, America will not be the most free nation in the world.
Marriage 'equality' isn't about freedom, the left loves equality more than freedom. Gender equality brings PC speech controls, new court precedent, social rules and norms like women on the front lines. Right now, nobody cares what you do in public, the issue is marriage law and how you advocate treating our women.

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Tony C wrote:
We'll have to call it the land of the mostly free and the home of the wussies who are afraid of same sex marriage.
Base your arguments on reason instead of emotion; what you fear isn't doesn't trump reality; there is no gender equality right in the Constitution because men and women are different. While we have equal treatment under the law, there is no norm for treating men and women the same, gender blindness is a real disability. I advocate a society that cares for women and demands men protect them.

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Tony C wrote:
We'll call it the land of hypocrisy because not quite ALL men are created equal.
The 14th Amendment explicitly lists different rights for males and females because gender equality doesn't exist in American law.

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Tony C wrote:
Either you believe in America, or you don't. You don't.
^^^The argument to jingoism; another fallacy.

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Tony C wrote:
This is just another wave like Loving v Virginia.
Exactly, Loving v Virginia is US Supreme Court precedent for marriage as one man and one woman. Do you think the judges would have decided the same if the Lovings were a same sex couple? They decided racial differences are too small for merit and completely unimportant while gender differences are great and essential to the survival of the human race.

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Tony C wrote:
It is not the end of the world. You can overreact, or you can get used to it. There's really no alternative.
Women are a protected class in America, only they may marry men. Same sex marriage would strip diversity and integration from marriage to make a new standard of infertile, segregated gender apartheid marriage.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#2110 Feb 5, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Marriage 'equality' isn't about freedom, the left loves equality more than freedom. Gender equality brings PC speech controls, new court precedent, social rules and norms like women on the front lines. Right now, nobody cares what you do in public, the issue is marriage law and how you advocate treating our women.
.
<quoted text>Base your arguments on reason instead of emotion; what you fear isn't doesn't trump reality; there is no gender equality right in the Constitution because men and women are different. While we have equal treatment under the law, there is no norm for treating men and women the same, gender blindness is a real disability. I advocate a society that cares for women and demands men protect them.
.
<quoted text>The 14th Amendment explicitly lists different rights for males and females because gender equality doesn't exist in American law.
.
<quoted text>^^^The argument to jingoism; another fallacy.
.
<quoted text>Exactly, Loving v Virginia is US Supreme Court precedent for marriage as one man and one woman. Do you think the judges would have decided the same if the Lovings were a same sex couple? They decided racial differences are too small for merit and completely unimportant while gender differences are great and essential to the survival of the human race.
.
<quoted text>Women are a protected class in America, only they may marry men. Same sex marriage would strip diversity and integration from marriage to make a new standard of infertile, segregated gender apartheid marriage.
Do you realize you never answer anything? You just keep restating the same thing over and over.

I'm trying to prepare you for the new reality. You can keep insisting it's not happening, but it is. Gay marriage is just around the corner, whether you personally like it or not.

None of your objections rise to the standard of relevance in any way.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#2111 Feb 5, 2013
They believe objections are irrelevant because of new reality. They believe objections are based on dislikes because their support comes from like; they are nice people and believe opponents are not nice, irrelevant and relics of the past.

It's nice to know where you stand.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#2112 Feb 5, 2013
Brian, your attempts at rationalization still fail to provide any justification for harming gay people through denial of a fundamental civil right.

Being human is all that is required for a fundamental right. While it may be restricted or delayed, the government must demonstrate a compelling and legitimate governmental interest for doing so. Your creative use of pejorative terminology and misrepresentation of the constitution fails to provide any.

Despite the escalation of pejorative terminology, coupled with a denial of relying on such emotionally loaded words and phrases, marriage equality does not impose same sex marriage on anyone. It expands freedom to more people. It does not restrict it. It does not change what marriage is for straight couples.

Segregation and apartheid are restrictions, imposed upon others against their will.

Expanding marriage to allow equal participation under the laws currently in effect, imposes no restrictions. It removes unnecessary, burdensome, and harmful, restrictions.

Again and again, the 14th amendment recognized women were not counted as voters. That one mention of treating women differently but only when counting voters, was nullified by the 19th amendment, which gave women the right to vote. The 5th and 14th amendments require equal treatment for all persons. "All persons" specifically includes both men and women. This is gender equality, written in the constitution.

Same sex marriage does not take anything away from marriage. It adds same sex couples to the mix, providing more opportunities for children both biologically related and adopted. Gay people are not infertile.

Irrational fear mongering is still all you have to justify refusing to treat all persons equally as promised in the founding documents and required by the constitution. It would be funny, if it were not also stigmatizing, dehumanizing, insulting, and harmful, contributing to and maintaining a social hostility that continues to cause young people to kill themselves. The prejudice you promote, contributes to needless suffering and death, here and around the world.

It is time to overcome your irrational prejudice, stop spreading harm, and accept reality.
Jane Dodo

Hoboken, NJ

#2113 Feb 5, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Ad hominem is logical fallacy. I'm not interested in your personal life, I care about the affects of new marriage law on everybody.
Same sex marriage would harm gays already married by incentive's for same sex remarriage where previous, only marriage incentive was male/female marriage. In that way, same sex marriage is ex post facto law; gays have already married under traditional marriage standard, and violates the Constitution's prohibition on ex post facto incrimination.
You are so dumb, I bet you look in a mirror to see if your eyes are shut.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#2114 Feb 5, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Marriage 'equality' isn't about freedom, the left loves equality more than freedom.
Did you think we would be wowed by your stupidity? How about the freedom to marry the person you love? It's not like my marriage reduces your freedom. You are still free to haunt gay chat boards and make stupid proclamations.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#2115 Feb 5, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
Did you think we would be wowed by your stupidity? How about the freedom to marry the person you love? It's not like my marriage reduces your freedom. You are still free to haunt gay chat boards and make stupid proclamations.
Same sex marriage would remove the freedom and privilege women have, to be the only sex licensed to marry men. It would also deprive men of the exclusive right to marry women. Same sex marriage is anti-freedom, anti-democratic and anti-natural law as well as anti-common sense.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#2116 Feb 5, 2013
Jane Dodo wrote:
You are so dumb, I bet you look in a mirror to see if your eyes are shut.
I remind everyone, ad hominem is falsehood so if this is the type of argument you see, that's how they think.

Consider consequences more than thinking about how you feel. Don't be a hater, reject all hate. You don't have to think political opponents are fools or evil, just mistaken.

Relax, think it over and post your reasons for keeping marriage male/female. I've got a list.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#2117 Feb 5, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
Brian, your attempts at rationalization still fail to provide any justification for harming gay people through denial of a fundamental civil right.
I've never justified harming gay people; I leave that to Not Yet Equal. Many homosexuals support protecting marriage; we have gay allies. We embrace your freedom to live as you choose, not to rewrite everyone's marriage laws.

I've never advocated harm, insult or anything but treating homosexuals with human dignity like everyone else. I've never advocated special rights to redefine marriage either.

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Not Yet Equal wrote:
Being human is all that is required for a fundamental right.
Marriage isn't for everybody.

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Not Yet Equal wrote:
While it may be restricted or delayed, the government must demonstrate a compelling and legitimate governmental interest for doing so.
No, the plaintiff must prove harm; their arguments aren't based on law.

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Not Yet Equal wrote:
Your creative use of pejorative terminology and misrepresentation of the constitution fails to provide any.
Any what? Tell us why you think same sex marriage is wrong. Tell us what 'pejorative'; I don't hold with insult.

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Not Yet Equal wrote:
Despite the escalation of pejorative terminology, coupled with a denial of relying on such emotionally loaded words and phrases, marriage equality does not impose same sex marriage on anyone.
Same sex marriage imposes new marriage law and precedent on all.

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Not Yet Equal wrote:
It expands freedom to more people. It does not restrict it. It does not change what marriage is for straight couples.
Getting rid of gender diversity in marriage changes it for everyone, including straight couples.

.
Not Yet Equal wrote:
Segregation and apartheid are restrictions, imposed upon others against their will.
No, segregation and apartheid are often imposed with the will of separatists and disunionists. Don't fall for this trap, they are like racists in wolf's clothing. Gender diversity is good and segregation bad.

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Not Yet Equal wrote:
Expanding marriage to allow equal participation under the laws currently in effect, imposes no restrictions.
It redefines marriage for all.

.
Not Yet Equal wrote:
It removes unnecessary, burdensome, and harmful, restrictions.
Prove it. I say male/female marriage maintains good standards.

.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#2118 Feb 5, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
They believe objections are irrelevant because of new reality. They believe objections are based on dislikes because their support comes from like; they are nice people and believe opponents are not nice, irrelevant and relics of the past.
It's nice to know where you stand.
At least you seem to comprehend that. Great.

And yes, of course objections are based on dislikes. There are no valid reasons to oppose.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#2119 Feb 5, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
Again and again, the 14th amendment recognized women were not counted as voters. That one mention of treating women differently but only when counting voters, was nullified by the 19th amendment, which gave women the right to vote. The 5th and 14th amendments require equal treatment for all persons. "All persons" specifically includes both men and women. This is gender equality, written in the constitution.
The ERA failed ratification; the Supreme Court knows men and women are different, now back to school.

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Not Yet Equal wrote:
Same sex marriage does not take anything away from marriage. It adds same sex couples to the mix, providing more opportunities for children both biologically related and adopted. Gay people are not infertile.
Same sex marriage arguments are based sympathy, not consideration of consequences. Every child biologically related to a same sex partner also has another parent, a mother or father. Same sex marriage would harm parental rights by introducing a new power play, the same sex spouse.

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Not Yet Equal wrote:
Irrational fear mongering is still all you have to justify refusing to treat all persons equally as promised in the founding documents and required by the constitution.
There is no promise of gender equality; men and women are not equal in our law. There is equal protection but not male/female equality right. They want to change that; I don't.

Keep women out of combat and same sex marriage out of our schools.

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Not Yet Equal wrote:
It would be funny, if it were not also stigmatizing, dehumanizing, insulting, and harmful, contributing to and maintaining a social hostility that continues to cause young people to kill themselves.
It would be funny if the argument above wasn't justifying suicide; I oppose these harmful tactics. As if politics trumps life; I don't buy the defamation above.

There is no 'good enough' excuse or reason for suicide; it is a bad act. I'll listen if you want to talk; just don't do it or threaten to do it!

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Not Yet Equal wrote:
The prejudice you promote, contributes to needless suffering and death, here and around the world.
It is time to overcome your irrational prejudice, stop spreading harm, and accept reality.
I contend same sex marriage supporters promote suffering and death, and pro-traditional marriage protectors promote your personal freedom not change.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#2120 Feb 5, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Same sex marriage would remove the freedom and privilege women have, to be the only sex licensed to marry men. It would also deprive men of the exclusive right to marry women. Same sex marriage is anti-freedom, anti-democratic and anti-natural law as well as anti-common sense.
Good think you're not an attorney.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#2121 Feb 5, 2013
While there are various explanations of natural law, one of the tenets that appears throughout the various versions, is the ethic of reciprocity and equality: That "no man require to reserve to himself any right, which he is not content should be reserved to every one of the rest".

This principal of treating all persons equally under the law is enshrined in our founding documents and required by the constitution.

Fundamental rights were never intended to be exclusive. They were intended to apply to all persons equally. Allowing more people to participate does not take away or restrict the freedom of anyone to make their own choices. It only expands freedom and equal opportunity.

Irrational fear mongering and pejorative terminology are all you have to justify refusing to treat all persons equally as promised in the founding documents and required by the constitution.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#2122 Feb 5, 2013
Your assertion you have do not support harming gay people, denies the fact that by supporting discrimination, you promote the prejudice which ideology assailants use to justify the beating, torture, and murder of gay people, both here and around the world.

It also stigmatizes and dehumanizes which results in self destruction for some, especially those too young to understand being gay is a natural part of being human for a minority of the population. So no matter how much you rationalize and deny, equality harms no one while anti-gay laws and beliefs result in suffering and death.

"While LGBT youth think about and attempt suicide more often than their straight counterpart, most LGBT youth do not attempt suicide. LGBT youth have many of the same risk factors as straight youth, but many LGBT have more or more severe risk factors. It is important to note that being LGBT is not a risk factor in and of itself; however, the minority stressors that LGBT individual encounter - such as discrimination and harassment - are directly associated with suicidal behavior as well as indirectly with risk factors for suicide." (American Association of Suicidology)
http://www.suicidology.org/c/document_library...

The Ca. Supreme Court: "While retention of the limitation of marriage to opposite-sex couples is not needed to preserve the rights and benefits of opposite-sex couples, the exclusion of same sex couples from the designation of marriage works a real and appreciable harm upon same-sex couples and their children." (p.117)

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#2123 Feb 5, 2013
"Ideology assailants report that their crimes stem from their negative beliefs and attitudes about homosexuality that they perceive other people in the community share. They see themselves as enforcing social morals." (APA)

Hate crimes against gay people are the highest per person in the U.S. Attacks against gay people are more severe and violent than for other groups according to the FBI.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#2124 Feb 5, 2013
Dr. Chris Beyrer, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Public Health: "We know for certain that lesbian and gay individuals suffer harm to their physical and psychological health, and to their relationships and quality of life, as result of the shame, isolation and stigma accrued from their social and legal disenfranchisement."

The American Psychological Association : "Prejudice and discrimination have social and personal impact." "The widespread prejudice, discrimination, and violence to which lesbians and gay men are often subjected are significant mental health concerns. Sexual prejudice, sexual orientation discrimination, and anti-gay violence are major sources of stress for lesbian, gay, and bisexual people. Although social support is crucial in coping with stress, anti-gay attitudes and discrimination may make it difficult for lesbian, gay, and bisexual people to find such support."
Jane Dodo

Hoboken, NJ

#2125 Feb 5, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>I remind everyone, ad hominem is falsehood so if this is the type of argument you see, that's how they think.
Consider consequences more than thinking about how you feel. Don't be a hater, reject all hate. You don't have to think political opponents are fools or evil, just mistaken.
Relax, think it over and post your reasons for keeping marriage male/female. I've got a list.
In your case, Brian, I am willing to say that you are merely stupid AND mistaken. Your list only has value as an example of what happens when stupid people get computers.
Jane Dodo

Hoboken, NJ

#2126 Feb 5, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
Good think you're not an attorney.
No chance of that EVER.

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