Somalia: Returning Diaspora Men Trans...

Somalia: Returning Diaspora Men Transform Mogadishu Wedding Industry

There are 46 comments on the AllAfrica.com story from Aug 26, 2013, titled Somalia: Returning Diaspora Men Transform Mogadishu Wedding Industry. In it, AllAfrica.com reports that:

Somali men from the diaspora are spending big money on bridal dowries and other wedding costs as they take advantage of safer conditions in Mogadishu to get married.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at AllAfrica.com.

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#22 Aug 27, 2013
Somali Man wrote:
<quoted text>
The not working out part is the only true thing I see. Cheating whores? I've never heard one single Somali woman who did this in my entire life. Greedy? Nope, I've seen men of little means with some (these were Somali men). The alimony scare doesn't apply to use since we don't do state marriages but Islamic marriages. My parents are divorced, nothing happened. Nothing was expected. We just lived our lives. In fact, I'm on bored to marry one when I grow up solely because I know I won't get screwed over in the end of the day.
true. thank you for correcting him before I did. he's always throwing sh!t out there to see what sticks so don't pay him no mind. I swear so many trolls come in here talking trash about Somali people when they don't know anything about us. And that's where they fail.

As far as being westernized go. I think it's a big problem in our community. I know there is more westernized women than men but that's only because the western culture "benefits" women more. or at least that's what we are made to believe. It's a gender war in the west and i think men have to stand up for themselves and logical women have to talk to these crazy girls fall for the "feminism" movement. I believe in women rights and i will fight for them but i don't believe men and women should be "equal". That doesn't even make sense.

Anyways, I don't think most Somali women have a problem with Somali men going back. At least I don't. I live in MN now and I met plenty of good single Somali men. So it really doesn't matter if some of these men are going back home, there is still plenty of fish in the water.
Sheikh Voodoo

Melbourne, Australia

#23 Aug 28, 2013
peace n shaax123 wrote:
I believe in women rights and i will fight for them
What are those Women Rights you believe in?
peace n shaax123 wrote:
but i don't believe men and women should be "equal". That doesn't even make sense.
Why are you contradicting yourself? How could you on one hand, announce that you support "women Rights" and at the same-time, turn around and claim that you "don't support the equality" of the genders?

This how the U.N's convention of Rights of Women defines women rights.

United Nations Convention on Rights of Women - 1981

The 1981 Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, signed by many United Nations member states defines discrimination in a way that implies that women's rights are in "political, economic, social, cultural, civil" and other spheres.

Any distinction, exclusion or restriction made on the basis of sex which has the effect or purpose of impairing or nullifying the recognition, enjoyment or exercise by women, irrespective of their marital status, on a basis of equality of men and women, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural, civil or any other field.

The Declaration specifically addresses:

• eliminating prejudice in public education.

• full political rights to vote and to run for and to serve in public office.

• rights to change nationality equal to men's rights.

• marriage and divorce rights to be equal to men's, and elimination of child marriage.

• equality in criminal punishment.

• traffic in women, including exploiting prostitutes.

• employment rights, including non-discrimination in access to jobs, equal pay, and paid maternity leave."

These are the rights of women that women seek to achieve because there still exists discrimination against women in all areas of life be they cultural, political and economic. Females may work the same hours or, more than men, yet are paid less, discrimination affects women more than men and they suffer the most from poverty, illiteracy and lack of health care than their male counterparts.

What sort of non-equality between men and women do you believe in?

Since this Treaty was signed other issues of women's rights have emerged, like most women were prevented from making deeply personal choices in their private lives, such as, those that concerns their reproductive rights, or, to have an abortion. Some countries and societies do practice restrictive abortion laws that puts the health and even the lives of rape victims in danger. This is not an equality issue of the genders, as men could not have abortions, but is deemed female Human Rights.

Do you believe a husband shouldn't be allowed to force his wife to have sex with her?

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#24 Aug 28, 2013
And here is the detention of feminism in Merriam Webster dictionary

1:the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes

2:organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

The first detention I agree with because we should have the same opportunities as men when it comes to education, jobs, wages, law, ect.

But the second part I don't agree with. It does say it right out but read in between the lines. They women's right movement is so bent on being like men they don't care what the end result is. They don't care if the family or society is destroyed as long as a women can do anything a man can do. Things such as being able to walk around topless like men. Then when they get raped, they blamed the men. How is walking around topless move women forward and empowering them?

Some of them cut up cucumbers in their rallies with butchers knifes.:( poor cucumbers. What have men done to as that is so bad that we would need to go that far? Also, how is this helpful to women? Even though it's kind of funny, we still need men to reproduce.

I believe in women's right as long as these "rights" aren't hurtful to us. I don't agree with everything just because they label it women's rights.

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#25 Aug 28, 2013
And yes I believe a husband should be able to "force" his wife to have sex with him.
Sheikh Voodoo

Melbourne, Australia

#26 Aug 28, 2013
Peace

You said above that you don't believe in the equality of men and women, please do stipulate further without veering into a complex un-defined issue/point of feminism.
peace n shaax123 wrote:
And yes I believe a husband should be able to "force" his wife to have sex with him.
You must also believe that a husband has the right to beat his wife if she becomes disobedient and doesn't comply with his desires and demands because forcing her requires being rough with her.

What women's right do you believe in? Since you are coming from dogma perspective, koran says, men should be the maintainers of women, why demand equal wages?

“turn back the hands of time”

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#27 Aug 28, 2013
peace n shaax123 wrote:
And here is the detention of feminism in Merriam Webster dictionary
1:the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2:organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests
The first detention I agree with because we should have the same opportunities as men when it comes to education, jobs, wages, law, ect.
But the second part I don't agree with. It does say it right out but read in between the lines. They women's right movement is so bent on being like men they don't care what the end result is. They don't care if the family or society is destroyed as long as a women can do anything a man can do. Things such as being able to walk around topless like men. Then when they get raped, they blamed the men. How is walking around topless move women forward and empowering them?
Some of them cut up cucumbers in their rallies with butchers knifes.:( poor cucumbers. What have men done to as that is so bad that we would need to go that far? Also, how is this helpful to women? Even though it's kind of funny, we still need men to reproduce.
I believe in women's right as long as these "rights" aren't hurtful to us. I don't agree with everything just because they label it women's rights.
LOL, so if a topless woman is raped it´s her fault? Talk about victim blaming. Blamie it on the tits but boys get raped too, did they show their tits?

“turn back the hands of time”

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#28 Aug 28, 2013
Peace and Shaax: With your line of reasoning,,I assume that you also blame the victim when hijabi women are attacked in non-muslim societies that are hostile to foreign cultures and attires? If a hijabi woman is assaulted because of her hijab, is it right for her to blame the men who attack her or should she blame herself for ? If you answer yes to this question, you´re contradicting yourself.

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#29 Aug 28, 2013
@voodoo,

Detention is everything. How can I say I care about women's right and turn around and go along with something that is hurtful to women?

And I told you parts I don't agree with. Like women should not be able to walk around topless like men. Women should not be equal to men in that. I can't think of anything else at the top of my head at the moment but I'm sure I can find more.

By force what I meant was, that her choice doesn't matter.it has nothing to do with the Quran, common sense can tell you that. The Quran is there as a reminder and guide but with common sense you can come to that conclusion. I also believe that a husband can't say no if his wife wants to have sex with him.(That's in the Sharia too).

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#30 Aug 28, 2013
INSEARCH_OF wrote:
Peace and Shaax: With your line of reasoning,,I assume that you also blame the victim when hijabi women are attacked in non-muslim societies that are hostile to foreign cultures and attires? If a hijabi woman is assaulted because of her hijab, is it right for her to blame the men who attack her or should she blame herself for ? If you answer yes to this question, you´re contradicting yourself.
No, it's no her fault unless there is something else going on.

But answer this for me, If I go walking around topless in the streets and get rape, am I 100% fault free?

My line of reasoning isn't going to get me raped.(at least not because of stupidity).

“turn back the hands of time”

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#31 Aug 28, 2013
peace n shaax123 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it's no her fault unless there is something else going on.
But answer this for me, If I go walking around topless in the streets and get rape, am I 100% fault free?
My line of reasoning isn't going to get me raped.(at least not because of stupidity).
peace n shaax123 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it's no her fault unless there is something else going on.
Sis, according to your line of reasoning, it is her fault, because she wore something that the mainstream Culture finds provocative? Why shouldn´t she blame herself according to you.
peace n shaax123 wrote:
<quoted text>

But answer this for me, If I go walking around topless in the streets and get rape, am I 100% fault free?
Yes, you´re 100% fault free. What you wear & don´t wear isn´t an invitation to rape.

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#32 Aug 28, 2013
INSEARCH_OF wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Sis, according to your line of reasoning, it is her fault, because she wore something that the mainstream Culture finds provocative? Why shouldn´t she blame herself according to you.
<quoted text>
Yes, you´re 100% fault free. What you wear & don´t wear isn´t an invitation to rape.
I do agree that a rapist will rape anyone regardless of what she/he wears but some dress codes can make you a more likely candidate to be raped. Just like a thief will more likely rob some one who drives around a lexus. It doesn't mean that a person shouldn't own a lexus but that they shouldn't drive it around the ghetto. Do you understand where I am coming from? If we lived in a better world I would agree with you but I would not recommend an female to walk around topless in this one.

“turn back the hands of time”

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#34 Aug 28, 2013
peace n shaax123 wrote:
<quoted text>
some dress codes can make you a more likely candidate to be raped.
How and why?
Lee

Calgary, Canada

#35 Aug 28, 2013
peace n shaax123 wrote:
And yes I believe a husband should be able to "force" his wife to have sex with him.
I agree with everything else u said, but that line doesnt sit well with me. I believe nobody should be "forced" to do anything without their consent whether married or not, period.

As for the topic on hand, nothing wrong with marrying a local girl haduu calafkooda ku jiro, but spending 20-30Gs is insane and to say the least not fair (or rather expensive) for the local men to get a piece of the pie.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#36 Aug 28, 2013
peace n shaax123 wrote:
<quoted text>
I do agree that a rapist will rape anyone regardless of what she/he wears but some dress codes can make you a more likely candidate to be raped. Just like a thief will more likely rob some one who drives around a lexus.
Saying a certain dress code will invite rapists is similar to saying not wearing a sleeping bag will invite cannibals. You can't blame someone for what they wear, of course, you can shun them for religious/moral reasons but the person who thinks about raping them is in the wrong.

The culture of blaming the woman has given certain rapists the ability to say 'oh she wasn't wearing gloves, her hands turned me on and I couldn't help myself'.

Have you realised when little boys get raped it's seen as horrid and the rapist is dehumanized? The same disgust doesn't come entirely when little girls are victims because we live in a society where we see females in a different light.
ilwaad

Ilford, UK

#37 Aug 28, 2013
How did this topic turn into rape?

No woman deserves to be raped regardless of how she dresses, but a scantily clad woman probably presents a more appealing target than one presenting herself more conservatively. It's asinine to try to make that statement an issue of blame. I think women should take precautions and a greater responsibility in protecting themselves. Nobody can deny that dressing scantily can invite unwanted attention. That's why most cultures and religions promote dressing modestly, in Islam both men and women are commanded to dress modestly and men and women are told to lower their gaze. It is about not making effort to invite attention, however some sick individuals will commit sick actions regardless.

It is common sense, we don't walk around the streets with a load of cash in our hands, we lock our cars and doors. We don't walk alone at night. We avoid neighbourhoods that are known for crime and generally avoid suspicious looking people.

We should feel safe from others hurting us regardless of what we do or wear but that is not the reality of life. That is why we protect ourselves in multiple ways to avoid harm and injury.
Somali Man

Newmarket, Canada

#38 Aug 28, 2013
peace n shaax123 wrote:
<quoted text>
true. thank you for correcting him before I did. he's always throwing sh!t out there to see what sticks so don't pay him no mind. I swear so many trolls come in here talking trash about Somali people when they don't know anything about us. And that's where they fail.
As far as being westernized go. I think it's a big problem in our community. I know there is more westernized women than men but that's only because the western culture "benefits" women more. or at least that's what we are made to believe. It's a gender war in the west and i think men have to stand up for themselves and logical women have to talk to these crazy girls fall for the "feminism" movement. I believe in women rights and i will fight for them but i don't believe men and women should be "equal". That doesn't even make sense.
Anyways, I don't think most Somali women have a problem with Somali men going back. At least I don't. I live in MN now and I met plenty of good single Somali men. So it really doesn't matter if some of these men are going back home, there is still plenty of fish in the water.
Equality makes sense for the most part. All other physical differences between men and women, like pregnancy leave, should fall under equity. Feminism, in it's purest form is all good to me. Their arguments make sense, and it wasn't all that I thought it would be. Although, there are femenazis (LOL) that go around preaching hatred for men instead of justice for women. But I've never seen a Somali woman profess hate towards the men.
Somali Man

Newmarket, Canada

#39 Aug 28, 2013
peace n shaax123 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it's no her fault unless there is something else going on.
But answer this for me, If I go walking around topless in the streets and get rape, am I 100% fault free?
My line of reasoning isn't going to get me raped.(at least not because of stupidity).
In an ideal world, yeah. I'm not a fan of women dressing obscenely, but that doesn't mean she should get raped for it. Women are raped even when they're fully clothed. It's the rapist's fault. Simple as that.
Somali Man

Newmarket, Canada

#40 Aug 28, 2013
INSEARCH_OF wrote:
<quoted text>
How and why?
By wear more obscene clothing, you are stimulating male sexuality. Thus the man or men in question are now thinking about you in a sexual way. For some men, it goes to a level in which they lose control or psychologically feel the need to rape said girl. This is wrong of course, but it's the reason. Though this depends on the scenario as well. If we live in a country where this is normal, the men wouldn't rape the women. There're places in islands where the people are nudists. Because they see naked women everywhere, they're not sexually stimulated. By living in a society that made such lifestyles demeaning, it's quite logical that these men (who are sexually frustrated) get aroused quite easily. So in order to combat this, we must live in a world where such lifestyles or clothing doesn't stimulate us as much. I think this is the point she's trying to make.
Somali Man

Newmarket, Canada

#41 Aug 28, 2013
ilwaad wrote:
How did this topic turn into rape?
No woman deserves to be raped regardless of how she dresses, but a scantily clad woman probably presents a more appealing target than one presenting herself more conservatively. It's asinine to try to make that statement an issue of blame. I think women should take precautions and a greater responsibility in protecting themselves. Nobody can deny that dressing scantily can invite unwanted attention. That's why most cultures and religions promote dressing modestly, in Islam both men and women are commanded to dress modestly and men and women are told to lower their gaze. It is about not making effort to invite attention, however some sick individuals will commit sick actions regardless.
It is common sense, we don't walk around the streets with a load of cash in our hands, we lock our cars and doors. We don't walk alone at night. We avoid neighbourhoods that are known for crime and generally avoid suspicious looking people.
We should feel safe from others hurting us regardless of what we do or wear but that is not the reality of life. That is why we protect ourselves in multiple ways to avoid harm and injury.
I disagree. We should live in a world where we can do whatever we want as long as no one is affected in a negative way. If a woman is butt naked and walking beside me, I should not rape her or assault her in anyway. Security is responsible for protecting us in these moments. More security is the answer, not the citizens succumbing to fear and intimidation. The criminals win when that happens. There's no freedom in your way of thinking.

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#42 Aug 28, 2013
INSEARCH_OF wrote:
<quoted text>
How and why?
if a nun and a women with nothing but a bikini on were walking down the same street, who do you think would be more likely to be raped? I am not saying that a women who is topless/wearing bikini deserves to get raped but that she should have more common senses in not walking around like that in such a environment.

It's not about the why but the possibilities. 1/4 college girls get raped (and that only the ones who report it). I live in a country where there is almost every law possible to ensure the safety of women, yet 25% of college girls are getting raped. In a environment like this, a women has to do everything she can to protect herself.
It's not being able to do as we please but do that which doesn't hare us.

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